BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Westchester NY/Fairfield CT Youth Lacrosse

imagine being a tax payer and losing your fields to a group of people that are profiting from fields that you pay for and your kid gets cut- that is a not an organization that is looking out for the future of that towns lacrosse program

Maybe if the John Jay coach had a summer team for the JJ players, same for Somers, Yorktown, Fox Lane, Bronxville, Pleasantville etc. We could all play each other over the summer and save time and money with expensive club fees, travel, personal trainers, etc.

There are Yorktown kids on Express North

u probably could also play the club teams as well- good practice for both

Predators are hands down the best program in Westchester. The coaches are incredibly devoted to the kids and are committed to making them great lacrosse players. These guys love to coach and train the boys and that makes it a very special environment.

I think all of us would love to see a genuine Westchester/Fairfield-only tourney this summer. Westchester Games was a start but only drew 91 teams really. Here's to hoping the program directors challenge each other to play in a local tourney. Not in a mean-spirited way but a "hey, let's see what you got" positive vibe.

I Completely agree with this assessment.

That's funny

I don't get the just play for your town scenario... it doesn't work. Staying with your town will not get you to be a better player. Yes it enhances the team concept tremendously but doesn't not elevate the play of individual players.

Playing for another coach also broadens your perspective of the game and gives you another voice in your cache of instructions.

Let me make this clear, I am not saying choose one or the other. I believe there is room to do both and we need to make sure we make room for both.

(the exception to the rule are the privates on LI but this is a Westchester link)

let me be clear- all those points above are valid however, i am focusing on the younger age teams. at some point middle school maybe, it makes sense to play club lacrosse if your end goal is college lacrosse. here is the dilemma i see in westchester right now , too many club teams, not enough "A" players. however programs like Primetime will take their 3/4 team down to long island and get demolished. its not as if we dont have the high quality players, we do, its just that we dont have as many. primetime 3/4 last year got beat something like 160 goals against 50 goals scored. that cannot possibly be a good experience for most players. if you have a quality town team, that is a big if, then why not keep those kids together for as long as possible, put them in the B brackets and let them have a chance at winning while also teaching them . no reason you still cant pay for higher level coaching

If their aren't enough A players for club teams in Westchester, how do you expect Town programs to field quality club teams?

I APOLOGIZE, IMHO TRAVEL SHOULD START AT 5TH GRADE. THE BELOW IS FOR 5TH AND ABOVE PLAYERS WILL COME AND GO ON THOSE TEAMS FOR THE NEXT 4/5 YEARS.

understand your points, lived through it. Just please do not limit your child's learning curve and experience if you can help it. If you have the means and the logistics work, you should try the travel route. Just be a wise consumer don't set your wallet or child up for failure.

Now, I just said don't do one or the other. I am a fan of doing both. Playing as a town does build a future and is great, nothing like playing with your friends; and if your child plays travel there is nothing better than playing against your travel buddies.

BUT, That good town team only has a handful of special players; those special players can and will benefit from playing with and against other players that are better. The worst thing you can do is make your child the best player on any team especially at the younger ages.

I will disagree with you about the term winning. When you play, whether it is sports, cards or tag, you play to win. I get that. You have fun in the pursuit to win. You just may not always win. That said, You wouldnt play a sport, cards or tag if you didn't think you had a chance to win or if you knew you'd lose all the time. You play something with the hopes you will win (if at least only once).

In any sport I don't care if you happen to lose every game. It is all relative, it is the spread of the win or loss that means something (score differential). IT IS ABOUT THE CHANCE TO WIN. Sure, it is good to blow team outs, but I also think it is healthy to get blown out, but it is the best when your teams play and the goal differential is within 5 your team, that means your placed against the correct opponents.

but as you said you don't have as much talented players, well if you don't have as much talented players on club then your town teams are just as diluted and the experiences for the better kids on town teams is just not going to enhance their play, as well, their being "forced" to play solely with the town... doesn't necessarily bring up the level for the developing players. That instead may led to those developing players taking aback seat and losing interest.

I love the concept of the town sticking together, but not at the detriment of advancing the better players. If each player plays a level above their usual play the town team will become that much better. Although you do need to become wary that some of those special players go another route all together and you may loose them forever, just remember that is their parents call and you cant dictate what one parent does for their child. where you think it is right wrong or indifferent)

No we all know politics plays its part on both travel and Town. Did politics have anything to do with why the PT team was not as strong as it could have been? Additionally, don't fall into the trap of because you are the best team in Westchester you need to play the best teams and tournaments on LI. Call out to a few LI teams and have a friendly. Invite them up and treat for Pizza. See what you have after you do this 2 or 3 times you will know where you stand.

I am all for challenging your team and players, you never want to be the best; you always want to work for what you get. At the same time you never want to out class your team and players where they are out of their league and get demoralized. Because sometimes your best isn't good enough, and that is okay, you just dont need to be reminded every weekend.

whats the difference at that point- in one scenario- you get a town team that plays in the b bracket of a tourney or you pay 2k to go to the same tourney? either way its a B team at best. as long as u get a quality coach. plenty of A players in Westchester, but not enough to field 3-5 teams at some age brackets .

PT philosophy, "No one learns anything at a B tourney" i disagree

IF PT takes the best kids ( no politics)
they should be the top team ahead of Predators.
this should be the case now that they are not at JJ

Good Luck to all the boys trying out this weekend and to the parents rushing around trying to get to as many as they can!

This is the blast email from the guy who runs superstars. Not sure if I totally respect his honest world view or just think he believes this helps his marketing efforts fully proving how nutty it has all become.


Dear Lacrosse Parent,

I am frequently asked questions about lacrosse player development and how your son or daughter can play lacrosse in college. There are many answers to this question, or maybe there is only one. If you want to know about the current recruiting landscape in the world of lacrosse and why developing skills NOW matters, please read on. I’ll try to keep it simple and more importantly brutally honest.

I saw a post on Facebook the other day where a woman was asking “why can’t sports go back to the way they were when we were kids. Now kids are so over-scheduled and have to play their sport year round…..”. When I saw the post, I wanted to reply with the answer, at least as it relates to lacrosse. I don’t think it’s all that complicated either, but I’ll get to that.

Let’s back up a bit (a lot further back than I want to actually admit), but let’s go back to the year 1990. In fact, let’s go back to November of 1990, just before Thanksgiving. It’s a Saturday. I am a high school senior. I have just completed a football game at Horace Greeley High School…it was a close game but we pulled out a win. I hustle to the locker room for the post game speech by Coach S. I quickly change my clothes and catch a ride directly to the airport. I am headed to my “official visit” to Syracuse University as a prospective lacrosse player. I have already visited Loyola College and Head Coach Dave Cottle has already come to my home the weekend before to have a beer with my father after watching me and 2 other Yorktown lacrosse players from our football team play in the game. As it turns out, those two other players, Matt Dwan and Jason Foley, both commit to Loyola in the weeks following this game, as HS Seniors. So I take my flight….arrive in Syracuse and spend 2 nights with Dom Fin, a freshman student-athlete at Syracuse University. I get the usual campus tour, trip to Marshall Street and visit a few of the lacrosse “houses” for various events. On the Monday morning before I leave, I have a meeting with Head Coach Roy Simmons Jr. We meet in the bleachers of Manley Field House and we have a brief conversation. After some small talk, he pulls out a manila envelope with an official scholarship offer from Syracuse University. As he explains to me, the offer is for a full scholarship. My parents will only be responsible for the cost of my books each semester. Everything else is covered. I smile and tell him I really appreciate the offer and that I am really excited about the idea of playing for Syracuse. However, I also tell him that Loyola College has also offered me a full scholarship, and they are willing to pay for my books as well. As I leave, I promise to speak with my parents and call him with an answer by the end of the week. He says that would be great and I catch a ride back to the airport. I am back in Yorktown in time to attend our football practice on Monday afternoon. And my decision to attend Syracuse University is made be the end of the evening.

We need to fast forward 25 years to get the “simple” answer to the Facebook post question I spoke of earlier. What has changed over 25 years and why? To start, think about this…I was a SENIOR in HS and still uncommitted. I was one of the most highly recruited players in the country that year. I had my pick of almost any school I wanted to attend….and yet, in November of my SENIOR YEAR, I was just beginning to get serious about an actual decision. And I’m lucky that decisions were made that late. TRUTH BE TOLD, IF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY HAD EVALUATED ME AS A FRESHMAN OR EVEN A SOPHOMORE IN HS, THERE IS LITTLE DOUBT THEY WOULD HAVE DISMISSED THE IDEA OF EVEN RECRUITING ME, LET ALONE OFFERING ME A FULL SCHOLARSHIP. As a sophomore player on Yorktown’s 1989 State Championship team, I was a hard working crease player in a 2-2-2- offense. I had no outside shot and I couldn’t have dodged a long pole for the life of me. Of course, between my sophomore year and my senior year I had the stick in my hands 24-7 and I spent a ton of time in the weight room and on the track working on my speed and agility. I became an excellent player through hard work and dedication in the last two years I spent at Yorktown HS. And the rest is history…..hard work and dedication and skill acquisition carried me all the way to the National Hall of Fame.

GREAT ROY, WHAT’S THE ANSWER?

I’m glad you asked. The answer is that Division 1 coaches are making recruiting decisions and doing their evaluations on players who have not yet spent a single day in their respective high school hallways, let alone on their varsity teams. THEREFORE, THE PRESSURE IS ON PLAYERS IN GRADES 6, 7 & 8 TO MAKE THE SAME PROGRESS IN THEIR SKILLS & LACROSSE ABILITIES THAT I MADE AS A HS JUNIOR AND SENIOR. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS DRIVING ALL OF THE MADNESS THAT WE ARE SEEING IN LACROSSE IN 2015. AND THIS IS WHY IF YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER HAS A DREAM OF PLAYING LACROSSE AT A DIVISION 1 SCHOOL, YOU NEED TO MAKE SOME VERY IMPORTANT DECISIONS WITH REGARD TO WHAT HE OR SHE DOES TO MAKE PROGRESS RIGHT NOW. IF YOU WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE IN HS TO FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE, YOU WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

IS THERE ANY GOOD NEWS?

Sure. There is good news. The good news is that players who work extremely hard and eventually develop excellent skill sets and way above average lacrosse abilities while in 9th & 10th grade will eventually become excellent HS players and will enjoy playing a sport they love at the highest level, and maybe even garner some post-season awards. There are many excellent Division 2 and 3 schools that will be interested in attracting your child's services during their HS playing years. There are also likely to be some D-1 schools that are in the mix, but they are few and far between and they will be looking to fill very specific needs.

SO WHAT DO WE DO?

I can’t tell any of you what to do about an issue that quite frankly bothers me as much as it bothers you. Having to tell my 6th grade son that his “dream school” will in all likelihood make a final decision on him during the summer after his 8th grade school year makes me want to scream. But it’s reality and he has a plan.

I’D ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO CONSIDER MAKING A PLAN AS WELL. GET BETTER NOW…GET BETTER RIGHT NOW! DON’T WAIT. DON’T PUT IT OFF. THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY IS GETTING SMALLER EVERY SINGLE DAY!

If your son or daughter has a dream of playing lacrosse at the D-1 level, help them to develop their skills in as many ways as you can. This isn’t a plug for any of the programs I run. There are many great programs out there that can help your son or daughter develop stick skills that will stand out among their peers. Because ultimately, that is how they are going to be judged….how good is your player compared to the players that they are surrounded by and compared to the players they are playing against.

WHAT ABOUT THE SCHOLARSHIP?

The full scholarship is almost a myth in 2015. They simply don’t exist! A few players in each recruiting class may get that type of offer, but it is extremely rare. If your son or daughter is an excellent player and garners the attention of multiple D-1 schools, he or she is likely to be offered a scholarship in the 25-30 percent range. A BIG scholarship is any offer over 50%. And the scholarship discussion still happens way, way after most verbal commitments are made.

WHAT EXACTLY IS A VERBAL COMMITMENT? DOES IT INCLUDE A SCHOLARSHIP OFFER?

A verbal offer is an offer for a prospective student-athlete to attend a D-1 school with the promise of a roster spot when they get there, assuming they maintain their grades and are able to get into the school when it comes time. That’s it. And it’s non-binding. The player and/or the coach can change their mind at ANY time, and sometimes they do. Coaches try very hard not to back out of verbal offers because it means future verbal offer carry less weight. Many players who “verbal” to a school do not discuss scholarship specifics at that point in time..they are simply thrilled to have been offered a roster spot and worry about the money later.

WHAT ABOUT A PG YEAR OR REPEATING 8TH GRADE?

The PG year has come and gone. Players who PG now only benefit if they are smart enough to announce their intention to do a PG as an 8th or 9th grader and then reclassify themselves on the recruiting circuit as a younger aged player....i.e. a 2019 player declares he will PG and begins to attend 2020 recruiting events or plays for a 2020 year club team the following summer.

Repeating 8th grade has become an incredibly common practice. In fact, some club teams actually recommend that ALL of their players repeat 8th grade if they are serious about attending a top tier division 1 school. I don't share this belief, but I will concede that repeating 8th grade gives a player another year to grow and develop as a player. To me, this is a last resort option, but I know plenty of players who have either repeated 8th grade or intend to repeat 8th grade in order to gain a year on their competition. If you look at the ages of the boys who are freshman in college playing lacrosse right now, you will find that most of them are significantly older than their non-athlete peers.


SO WHAT DO WE DO TO GET NOTICED?

DEVELOP SKILLS THAT ARE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE’S AND TAKE THEM ON THE ROAD. GET FASTER AND STRONGER NOW. PLAY FOR A QUALITY SUMMER TEAM. ATTEND SHOWCASES. GO TO THE PROSPECT DAYS OF INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS. ATTEND THE SUMMER CAMP OF YOUR FAVORITE SCHOOL. GET IN FRONT OF THEIR COACHING STAFF AND MAKE IT COUNT…THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN NO EXPOSURE IS NEGATIVE EXPOSURE. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SEEN, BY ALL MEANS MAKE SURE YOU ARE READY TO PLAY!!!

There is plenty more to write about but I have taken up more than enough time for one afternoon….I wish you all the best on your journey…try to enjoy it and help your son or daughter embrace the hard work it will undoubtedly take to become a Division 1 Lacrosse Player!

DISCLAIMER- The opinions expressed in this email are exactly that, the opinions of one person. Your experience may be different. I would strongly encourage you to do your own research!

Blah, blah, blah. All of the Superstar teams are now weak except the 2022 AA team ... and that's just because Roy's son is on the team and he personally coaches it and devotes attention.

His teams are weak and he's grasping for whatever he can to keep his league afloat. GREAT lacrosse player however.

Prime Time does a good job placing strong players, they are not good at coaching though. Very hit or miss.

Predators are all about skill development. If you want your son to be a strong player go with the Predators. Your son will get hands on coaching from guys who are passionate.

Huge turnout for Express North for the younger grades. I think the 2022's had upwards of 60 kids. Not surprising there was a large contingent of John Jay kids at all grade levels. Seemed well run and organized.

Quite an impressive turnout. Very well run. Harvey facility is a home run.

It is incredibly clear who is fueling these Express North posts. Gotta promote yourself I guess.

Every tryout I heard about had good numbers. Players try out for multiple teams and often times you will see exhausted, sweaty kids get out of a car coming from another tryout.

Tryout numbers are great, but I am more concerned with who these players ultimately decide to play for.

I'm sure preedators coaches are passionate. Look at express North coaches and their backgrounds . Passion ,track records .word is half of 18 team is committed .

I'm the father of a kid who is trying out for Express North. One of my sons played with them last year and had a great experience. Does every post have to be negative or confrontational? My sons coaches are intense, knowledgeable and 100% committed to the team and the kids. I can't ask for more and hope his brother makes the team.

I have had kids play for both Teams coaches and experience was very positive in both cases.

Agreed.

No self promotion here. my kids have had a great experience with North.

Some things seen at SUNY-Purchase tryouts for lower Westchester clubs last weekend pertaining to 2022/2023/2024 ... (note- assembled from some local parents):
Predators had some great numbers and organization. Around 50 players for 2023 and 2022 on day 1. Many coaches and evaluators including older team stars. Some real talent out there. Could easily field 2 decent teams per age group.
91 Tri-State had less kids than Predators but organized, many coaches on hand. Setting up dedicated 2023 and 2024 teams after split squad. 2023 talent way less than Predators but many clubs will be in that boat.
2Way had less numbers than Predators and 91, not as organized and not many coaches or staff evaluating. Could not tell grades apart, all mixed together, so that upset parents. Several younger players also were at 91 or Predators. Talent very mixed.
No word on Topside or Express North or PT.
Overall, the impressions seem to mirror the comments on this board ... Predators very strong, 91 building, 2Way not major player.

North the powers . Very predator biased above.

Any updates as to numbers for older kids?

Hopefully someone will tell us how the LIE North and Prinetime tryouts went.

I was at the Predators and Long Island Express North tryouts for 2022 and 23. Predators very good talent and yes about 50 kids in each group. LIE North good talent and 45 boys tried out.

The Predators 2022 boys, current 6th graders, are supposed to be 11 years old. I can not believe the amount of left back kids at Predator tryout. I would say almost half of the 2022 players on the field were 12 or 13 years old. Makes a big difference. Insane how the parents in Rye and Bronxville have brought their front running wall street antics to youth lacrosse.

Both of my boys attended the Express North tryouts so I was at the field for about 4 hours. It appeared the 2024 & 2025's had 50-60 kids trying out. I was vey impressed with the number of evaluators and coaches. They had coaches running drills while evaluators monitored and took notes. I've been to tryouts where one or two coaches are trying to run the drills and evaluate and that isn't effective. It looked like they had 4 guys running each tryout with a few additional floaters walking from group to group.

Bottom line, my kids had a chance to be seen and probably learned something because I heard them getting some coaching. I'm satisfied and my guys are looking forward to the next round. I won't compare the tryouts to the other my boys attended.

Eclipse, which is mostly CT but some Westchester, had really big numbers at the youth teams from 2024 - 2021 and ran very well organized tryouts.

Talent at Eclipse 2021 was off the charts
They weren't just CT kids either

Agreed. Talent level was tops. It appears most of the kids making the team are New Canaan A team and Darien A team with some others sprinkled in. Not surprising. This is a NC driven program and they have not been shy about talking about how it is to develop NC kids. But the Darien kids are so good they can't ignore them!

Why are we talking ct lax in a west. forum. Plenty of CT programs to have their own thread. Same now with west.

Because some westchester kids play for Connecticut teams and some Connecticut kids play for westchester teams.

Our town team played NC and the NC kids, 8 or 9 of them towered over our tallest kid.

What is the left back policy in NC? Greenwich was the same way.