BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

BOTC is opening our Fall 2015 through Summer 2016 thread covering the Boys 2021-7th Grade age group.

Shocked to be kicking off this thread. Re tryouts for any AA team, maybe even more so for teams trying to be...buyer beware...Dad coaches promoting son without comsequences (cheap labor), absentee Directors too busy counting the money, flimsy claims about how many of their players now play in college, immediate conflicts with Town teams, new kids added simply to have a bench that never gets used, 15 minute shifts for first line with quick too minute breaks, loudmouth coaches who take the fun out of playing and replace it with fear of making a mistake and being loudly ripped by a coach, helicopter parents who jump when the coach asks how high (or schedules an out of state game on Easter), ugly uniforms, games you would be embarassed to bring grandparents to, parent child "pep talks" that would make psychologists cringe, a weekly competition for who can bring the more expensive food item for the banquet that goes half eaten (because clearly as lax parents we are well off). All for the low, low price of $3,000 and dragging your entire family to these tournaments for the best 9 weeks of weather that we have in the NE. I expect "its not for you, move on". I've moved on. Happily. Blissfully. Never to look backedly. I suggest you calculate how many summers you have between now and when junior heads off to Podunk on the 1/8th ride he earned for all of his sacrifice, and ask yourself if it is worth it. Is your ego that big, your desire for that car sticker and bragging rights that great? Has this cult turned us all into drones feeding the machine? Wake up. Play town, play school, play hoops, play soccer, take a vacation, take your kids to the beach. You are missing out.

Thank You !!!!..this is such an awesome critique of Travel Lax that it needs to be shared to EVERYONE who has ever taken part in the charade that is travel lax. havig done itnow for 2+ years, i can truly attest to the validity of the comments.

Its a wonderful game being hijacked by those with a profit motive. They are creating the illusion that "this is what you need to do if you want to play at the next level" and then operating it with former college players. (Notice: Being a college player 20 years ago means nothing now, and many of these guys would never make these teams now due to the growth of the game).

Create a market where there is none and then market it like crazy to make people feel like they are missing out if they aren't aboard the train. Any coincidence many of these Directors are former Wall Street guys.

Take back the game. It's ours, not theirs. Let your kids be kids and let their natural talents and interest take them where they want to go, wherever that is.

You can say that about any travel sport. For many, traveling as families with teammates over the years has been a great way to have fun with family and friends at the same time. We have been involved in hockey, soccer, lacrosse and a small basketball stint for travel and we have always built great memories. I think if you do your research, know the philosophy of the club and coach you are aligned with and it suits your family values and philosophy of youth sports it can be a great experience. I'd rather have my kids with my whole family traveling and with us on Friday and Saturdays than playing video games and wandering the streets with nothing to do but find trouble. We still find pools, beaches, movies etc in between and after games. We do spend a lot of money, but we enjoy it. Younger siblings grow with other siblings on the teams and very often end up playing together. Teammates become life long friends and enjoy rivalries when they play one another in HS match ups.

I may be the minority, or maybe we have fallen into the right teams/clubs over the years across various sports, but we truly enjoy the experiences and the memories made. If any of my kids decide to call it quits- they get to make that call, but we certainly would have a bank of fun times to look back on and many friendships to hold on to as well. To each their own.

+1!! My youngest plays travel. I'm kinda glad my oldest lost interest a while back in all honesty. If I feel that my younger doesn't have the interest or passion for the game and doesn't want to play, I'll gladly let him stop

You are all correct, it just depends on who you play for and what you are looking for. As with any product there are going to be good ones and bad ones, things you want and things you believe you need. These are decisions that only an individual can make. There is no blanket judgement of right or wrong, good or bad. Some choose to travel all over the place and spend tons of money, some want less of a commitment of time and lower costs. In the end the most important question is "who are we doing this for?" If you're being honest and your child loves what he is doing and you can afford it then it makes sense. Regardless of what kids do today it costs money. Whether they are into music, art, sports, etc. there is always going to be a cost involved in both time and money. Let go of the notion that this is necessary in order to go to college. The odds are that most players are only going to maximize their potential in anything if they have something special inside them and the love of that something brings it out. If there is no enjoyment there will be nothing but regret in the long run. If your child loves what he is doing, likes his teammates and plays for good coaches then just enjoy the experience and understand it is as much about making friends and memories as it is about anything else. There is no shame in walking away from something that you don't believe is good for you, or more importantly, your child.

can i get an AMEN!?

The good programs are few and far between. I hear too many parents lament that they and their kid are "just getting through it". No way for a kid so spend summer. There is plenty of pressure to compete at everything the other 10 months of the year- school, sports, whatever. Can't we give them the gift of just being a kid for 60 days. That down time is when they discover what makes them tick. The time away lets them make good choices.

what's wrong with the 2021 parents? stop with the common sense, all for the kids approach and start ranking the top 2021 teams and who has more hold backs!

Sincerely,
2020 thread

I'm a 2021 coach and this Summer was the first time our season ended (luckily on a good note) when kids just wanted more. One more tournament or tried to get spot at lacrosse camp or "when's practice start back up."

Football will take all those players energy, but I think kids are mostly tired of rec soccer and cross country is just to stay in shape. I have been lobbied to beef up our Fall season so their kids have a sport they are excited about until wrestling/hockey/basketball season. (Almost every kid on my team plays 3 sports.)

Anyway, I think all the criticisms above are valid and I think the coach and/or program head really needs to work hard to give their team (and parents) a good family experience. A lot of that is being positive, trying to navigate playing time issues, keeping costs down, avoiding Friday afternoon traffic jams, etc. Watching kids from so many different schools become friends (and act like kids!) has clearly been the best part of the experience so far.

Was it the Outlaws?

Outlaws are a girls program??? Learn to read moron!

The outlaws don't have a girls program.

Outlaw haters get a life. It's great to be an Outlaw!

If you were that happily and blissfully content you wouldn't have to bash something you just left. it's not for everyone. I'll give you that. but if your kid really loves it, it's all worth it. It would have been nice to get out of town every weekend as a kid. I actually envy mine. In a good way. our beaches are way overrated anyway.

well said. a lot of us feel exactly the same way but don't often articulate it as eloquently as you just did.

Well said. Both of you.
I always find it funny when people have a bad experience with travel sports they feel the need to bash those that continue to do it.
I love travel lax and our family has so many great memories of our travel tournaments and all the excursions and adventures we incorporated into those trips.

If it's not for you feel free to not participate!!!
For those that participate please share your experiences "from the road". Trips that you made to tournaments that you incorporated side trips or excursions for example.

I feel free to not participate. But by your logic, only the "good" aspects of travel would be represented here. Those who found it to be a terrible experience should simply be quiet? Parents looking at programs shouldn't see another point of view? You must be in bed with one of these organizations that charges families $100 to try out for teams that really don't have open spots, and are just trolling to add a C team to make even more money- as the Outlaws obviously now are at this age group. "We won't field a C team. We will only out a quality product in the field". How laughable is that? If they have 16 bodies with a pulse they will have a third team. I am not picking on the Outlaws- they are just following 91 and Express blueprint to make more money.

Beyond this, these Programs have ALOT of problems. Read the initial thread if you are looking at Travel and want the truth from a parent who has been through it- not the Directors trolling here. Its not just time away during the Summer. These programs all talk about how they are looking to develop athletes with character. It is complete BS. These are for profit corporations that want to build winning reputations so they can field even more teams, making more money, selling easy, deep pocketed dupes the dream of D1 glory.

To not call these Directors out is to allow them to keep scamming parents. Every parent wants to think their kid could make it to the next level. These scammers prey on that and bilk $3,000 per year from the families. And before you tell me you do it for the love of the game- ask yourself if you see junior playing in college some day. The VAST majority of parents involved have unattainable college aspirations for their kids lacrosse career. These are stoked and taken advantage of by these Directors. They make it seem within reach.

See how prominently, and sometimes very inflatedly, they tout their "college commits". "100 in the past 3 years". How many of them played at the younger levels for them, and how many of them were recruited to play a single tournament, with the fee waved, so the organization could use their name?

Its no different that a penny stock broker pitching the explosive growth of a new issue. And in this case, they are one and same people.

Again, if you choose not to have your kid play, you don't have to. I do think your point if view is valid and sharing is important, but it isn't an absolute. As I stated earlier, our family has grown very close over the years as a unit and alongside many other families because of the amount of time we spend together, traveling and experiencing new places. We have been fortunate to have traveled to many states through our travel sports experiences. We have visited beaches, mountains, parks, museums, landmarks and numerous restaurants along the way. We have done so as a family, along with friends.

My kids have been in travel sports for more than a few years now. We have been with various clubs and coaches. Overall, we have had above avg experiences and cannot complain. My boys have played at different levels as well- at various points B, A, AA and that didn't change our experience either. I suspect the coach, the philosophy and the families made the experience worth doing. It is possible you've had a few bad experiences. It is possible that you prefer hanging at the beach or a golf club. That's okay- but it's not that travel lax is bad for everyone. Many friends not in the travel arena spend over 8-10 grand a summer on cabanas, their boats or sleep away camps. If that is what they prefer, that is fine and maybe for you it is too. My family spends less and experiences out summers enjoying the lax scene at different ages and the money spent is less than what others spend on their summer excursions or boat etc. my kids enjoy it, I don't feel ripped off, my kids are learning and growing. They play other sports and have good grades. I know many kids as such. I also believe there is a place for many of our kids to play in college. Will they all go D1- no. But there are many D-2 and D-3 schools looking for players as well. I know many people say that hardly any kids will go D1, well I can count more than a dozen kids committed to D1 schools just from our experiences within the last year and I suspect there will be many more coming. I do think it is possible, and not a pipe dream, but you have to be realistic about your kids grades, skills and personality. You don't necessarily need club lax to get committed, but it is another avenue to help you get there- whether it be D1-2 or 3. Take it for what it is and if it isn't for you that's okay, but for those that do find it to be a worthwhile experience, enjoy every second because it does go by in a blink of an eye.

To further add, this conversation reminded me of this letter. While the sport is hockey, it can pertain to any travel sport. However, it does share the sentiments that many of us feel for travel sports- the craziness, the glory, the tears- the good and bad. In the end it's not all about playing in college, but much more. Enjoy...

The Junior Hockey News
Covering The World Of Junior Hockey
A Fathers Letter To His Son At The End Of His Hockey Playing Career
Posted by Admin
This letter was sent to us by a player who received it from his Father. The player said one thing before attaching the letter; “this is what its all about.” I think that this is something that all of us hockey fathers will one day wish we have written to our sons:

Dear _______________________,

Has it really been 18 years since I first took you skating? It feels like it was yesterday. I can remember the very first time, and the look on your face as you struggled to balance on those skates.

Has it really been 16 seasons of watching you play? Where has the time gone, how many hundreds of hours have we spent at the rink and in the car? How many trips to Tim Hortons have we made?

I find it hard to believe now, that in a few short weeks it will all come to an end. The practices, the games, the trips to buy new gear in the summer, and all the camps.

While there is a part of me that is tremendously sad that it is ending, I would not trade the sadness I feel for anything in the world. I am sad not only because of the end, but because I know how you will feel a year from now.

While it would be easy for me to be selfish and complain about it ending, I can only hope you can find a way to replace what you have always known as routine. While you may be leaving the game as a competitive player, the game should always be a part of you. The memories you have should last a lifetime. The friends you have made will always be your friends.

Take these last games and relish every minute of them. Play with a passion that will allow you to let the game go as a player and remain full with the memories it has given you. Hockey may no longer consume you, but it will always be a part of you. As you walk away, know that one day you will come back.

This is a circle. It is a family thing. One day I hope you will experience the sadness I feel today with your own son. Why? Because there is joy behind the sadness.

Through this adventure we have taken as a family, you have grown into a man. A man that any parent would be proud of. You have a future, you understand rules, and you know what it is to be a team player. You have learned to give back, and you understand what it takes to push yourself beyond what you thought you could achieve.

My joy in having watched you grow into the person that you are today will outweigh the sadness of watching these last games knowing they will be the last. My joy will one day be in watching you tie your sons skates as you pass on this tradition.

I am proud of you. Thank you for allowing me to come along this journey with you. I wouldnt trade one minute of this experience for anything.

Dad

Travel lacrosse is not for everyone> Not every kid is going to get a scholarship. Not every kid is going to play D1. That is all true. But not every kid who takes piano lessons will play at Carnegie Hall. Not every girl taking dance lessons will Dance with the Rockettes.
Sometimes the kids just like playing lacrosse. Sometimes they like to play lacrosse in the spring as well as in the summer and winter. Why shouldn't they be able to? If there is a program that is willing to field a team, even for a profit, and it provides the child an opportunity to play whats the harm?
I am not a director but am a coach in both youth and High School. I have both A level players and B and C level. Why cant the "C" kid play in the summer? He doesn't need to win a national championship on TV to enjoy the game. His time isn't wasted if he doesn't develop into the next superstar. He is playing a game that he enjoys. There should be a place for him to play.
I didn't play pro. I did play DIII for a short period of time. I loved and still love the game. I still play in an over 40 league. These kids will hopefully have the opportunity to do the same.
Don't look at travel as a method to get something down the road. Look at it as a past time and a game to play. Have a realistic perspective and it is more fun. Stop asking if we are there yet and enjoy the ride and the scenery!

If a third team is coached and plays in level appropriate tournaments how is that a money grab? If the kids get to play and learn isn't that what it is there for? The slower kid with less than deadly stick skills should be able to play if he wants to. His parents should have the opportunity to watch him play. He should be able to go to a tournament in Hershey and hit the roller coasters with his friends afterward. You shouldn't need to commit to Hopkins in 8th grade to have fun in this game

I think both the original post and the rebuttal are well said. There are definitely parents who lose focus and make it not fun for the family, because they expect their kid to get a scholarship, and there are other parents who appreciate youth sports for what it truly should be. The travel scene is not for everyone, and that's OK.

To add, if you think about for every stud, their are 5 very good players, for every good player there are 10 medicare players. I have always said their is more opportunity for B teams then AA or A. The best part os that becasue so many kids fit this level, you really dont even need to travel. Igloo, Outlaws and Legacy,, after they play each other twice then what ? But if you are a B team there are probably 25 clubs of your talent level including some good town teams I am surprised the business model has not focused mor eon this area. Just like there are mens over 40 leagues, many kids just play for fun and exercise and the team experience

Well said. Who is really expected to bring sashimi to a tournament? Took this year off from club ball and my son could not have been happier. The summer was great. Beach, Golf, real vacations and no pressure. Sounds like we didn't miss much. I heard from club parents how the kids roasted standing on some country corn field watching parents fight while still holding their Solo cups between running up and down the turnpike. I am sure the elevator tag gets old and so does my $200 tab at every meal (Why am I paying for your wife and kids family vacation meals?). Don't miss the pyscho coaches, overzealous parents and traffic on the Outerbridge. Thanks to dropping club lacrosse my son got to go to camp and play basketball this year while I saved whatever the "scholarship" would amount too.

No offense, I would not want to spend my family vacation traveling with some annoying family whose sole common interest was 7th grade lacrosse and getting drunk at the pool. Or the field. I certainly would not want to pay for it. And stop taking the other 3 screaming kids. There, I said it.

Thank you to the person who posted that letter earlier today from the dad to his son who was finishing up on his hockey playing days. Im a 40+ father of multiple boys that play sports and competitive as anythhing. Call me a big mush but reading it made me teary eyed. That letter is what its all about so thx again for sharing.

Fair enough. But may I ask why, if you've been out of travel lacrosse for a year, and your life is so much better since you've left, why are you still reading and posting on a travel lacrosse page?

It was one of the wisest things I have ever seen posted on this site.

Lets be honest, sports is about winning and losing. If your unhappy your child doesn't play enough work harder. I too am tired of everyone bashing this wonderful sport that I played in over the 30 years ago. If you want a trophy for showing up play for Obama and the liberals. Working hard will make you better and prepare you for life. That's it!!!

Its all about winning and losing ? BS, when I throw equipment on and bring my relic of stick out once on a while to play in an over 40 game its not to win

Yes it is a lesson in life, my kid driving home after one game, and
Said to me that he is better then some of the kids that
Play more then him. I told him your right, but I told him just like at my job
Some people are very friendly with the boss/coach. So he gives them more pppporunity.
He works hard it's my wife and I that have to suck up more.
That is sad, and what people are sick of doing.nr7

Thank you Mr. Trump. Your comments sort of make my point.

No one is bashing lacrosse. Its a great sport- maybe the best.

What I and others are bashing, are the elements that are making it less of a game and more of an occupation. Can the travel experience be good- of course it can. Many of you have detailed that. However, increasingly it is NOT a good experience. The tide is turning, and doing so due to some peoples' recognition that they can make alot of money selling D1 hope. That cancer trickles down to all levels of lacrosse.

Their certainly is a market for B teams, for kids who want to play. Problem is, no parent on the B team doesnt want their kid on the A team, so there is no place for a kid to avoid the insanity.

And the absolute worst situation are the B level teams that aspire to be AA. I have never seen a B level coach who was happy at B. They all want a seat at the table. They all want to think their kid has a chance at D1, and therefore must play on an AA team. Just work harder. Play more. Toughen up. Shake off the conwebs and get back in there. See where I am going with this...

Reality- most kids who play D1 have natural ability that is uncommon. Its not enough to get them to D1, but too many parents in this scene think their kid has the talent and just needs to play more, work harder and buy into the travel
Mess.

It's a delicate balance as to playing time. I've got one son who got minimal playing time for a couple years. He was OK with it, because he loved the team and thought the three guys ahead of him were better. What got tougher was after he had a breakout school season and then did well as a guest player for another program (at a sibling's tournament). Still saw himself behind those 3 guys, but not really behind some new kids added for seemingly money or political reasons. I'm a 2021 coach and I think it's important for parents to tell their kids to work harder and implement what the coaches tell them if they want to play more, not sympathize with their kids wanting to play more. But obviously every situation is different and if - trying to be as objective as possible - you think the coach is not allocating PT for the best interest of the team, find a coach whose motivations you trust.

Not sure I understand the comments above regarding B teams. I think it's foolish, of course, to think you have D1 material at the 2021 level and, much worse, it's horribly dangerous to send a kid back into the game that might have a concussion.

That said, it's a good thing to play teams a level up from you now and then. Ideally, I think you play a team you can "run with" even if the score ends up 10-3. You have so many teaching points at practice the next week. And, yes, you tell the kids they need to work harder on their stick skills and in practice if they want to play at a higher level. Of course better teams are more athletic, but better teams also invariably have better stick skills and even B players can raise their stick skills to an A level through hard work. And making that "one more" pass or passing when you draw the slide or moving the ball quickly to the backside are all things B players can learn, even though B "teams" don't do those things (at 2021). Especially from outside Md and NY, your team may think they are hot stuff, but they can't even beat a B team from LI. With hard work, I think teams can step it up a notch every season, though I agree you aren't going to get to AA without high level coaching and AA and A athletes - hard-working B players fall apart against AA players.

Suggestion to the mods. If possible, make this a different thread since it's good conversation and is buried under the boys 2021 thread, and just start a new 2021 thread.

I am not sure why this thread will not suffice.

What you describe is bad parenting not a problem with travel lacrosse. If you want to be on an A or especially an AA team expect year round commitment. Expect playing time based on ability and performance and expect, if your son is not one of the top performers to be upset with the playing time and the turnpike and the splitting of the bill at a team dinner.
If your son is a "B" player, let him play appropriate level lacrosse with less traveling and more even playing time. If your son is a sstud and you are not happy with the over the top commitment for a top team, play on a different team and be a stud. Just don't be upset when all your teammates are not equal caliber players.
Just being good enough to make the top team does not mean you need to play for that team. Find your happy spot and play there. You may not be able to have your cake and eat it too. You cant play top level and complain about all that goes into it. You cant play on the top teams if you are not over the top in both your, and your son's love of the game. If it is a chore to do it it is work and not a game. If that is the case you are doing neither you or your son any favors. He may develop that love down the road but if he doesnt have it at 12 and you are forcing him to he will never develop it. If he does and you are the sour puss, suck it up and do it for him or dont it's your choice as a parent.

Anyone know anything about the Bluefish for this age group. For the prices they are charging and tryout dated it Appears they may have a core group of kids that they know will be on the team. Anyone know if they have players already for 2021. Anyone have any info on this team other than what is posted on the Internet.