BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Call me what you want but youth sports and religion of any kind should not mix. I feel bad enough when I see a Jewish kid pretend to pray before a big game. But to try and exclude none Christians or say Christians can do youth sports better is just not cool.

There are a number of non-Christians that participate in FCA. Hop down off your soap box and come listen to a huddle before or after a game. It is about teaching the kids right from wrong, make better decisions, etc...If you don't know what is being said, you shouldn't comment.

If the non Christians don't like it, they can choose one of the many other Lax clubs out there. I'm sure those other clubs would be just as happy as FCA to take your money.

The FCA Christians cheat almost as well as Crabs

Teaching them right from wrong? Haha! That's pretty funny. They move kids between teams based on the opponent they are playing, I've seen it first hand - and I'm not talking about 2019 to 2020, I'm talking about between 2020 teams. I've also heard more cuss words on the field coming from the FCA kids than any other team we've ever played. Then add the we're better than you because we pray mentality to it... it's just disgusting. You'd think they would be the most sportsmanlike and ethical team on the field - however they are anything but that.

i can attest to the 2019/20 mentality since my son played with those boys for years in rec/club. many of those kids were the most arrogant, elitist kids around and the parents were the same way. we and a few other parents used to joke about the irony, asking when was the last time these kids went to church, etc.

I sgree. I had the unfortunate experience of sitting around FCA parents at a 2020 game at Blandiar field in Howard County last spring. They are the most rude, arrogant and foul mouth people I have ever been around at a lax game. It took all of my strength to not tell them to shut the f up. They were getting on the ref on every call, quietly cheered when an opposing play was injured (by an illegal hit) and then yelled at the ref for giving the FCA player a penalty. FCA is not quite as bad as Crabs for the number of holdbacks or moving players around but they are a very close second in the Baltimore area. And they have the gall to pretend they are a religious group and hide behind religion. Believe me, they are anything but. Who knows, maybe this organization is some kind of cult, but whatever it is, it is shameful.

My original point about FCA is no matter if the coaches and players are saints. The concept of bringing a faith based team into a youth sport world is just off putting. And I agree its America and we all have rights. But with FCA becoming a top program its a little upsetting that a top player of non Christian faith would have to deal with the uncomfortable feeling of all the extra. We can agree there is only 3 at the most top AA programs within 30 miles of any of us on here.

You are no longer welcome in heaven. EOM

Teaching them right from wrong? Haha! That's pretty funny. They move kids between teams based on the opponent they are playing, I've seen it first hand - and I'm not talking about 2019 to 2020, I'm talking about between 2020 teams. I've also heard more cuss words on the field coming from the FCA kids than any other team we've ever played. Then add the we're better than you because we pray mentality to it... it's just disgusting. You'd think they would be the most sportsmanlike and ethical team on the field - however they are anything but that. [/quote]

My son has played on different club & rec teams with quite a few of the FCA kids, they definitely move players from their 2020 Blue down to the 2020 White. Moving players from "AA" down a level to "A" is still cheating and just as bad as holdbacks.

The pre game huddle sounds something like this "Dear Lord Baby Jesus, please don't let us get caught cheating today. We have 4 holdbacks playing today plus another 4 players who were born in the summer. Oh, Lord baby Jesus, we also brought 3 players down from our AA team to play with our A team today, so we have 11 kids who shouldn't be on the field playing this game today!

[/quote]
Call me what you want but youth sports and religion of any kind should not mix. I feel bad enough when I see a Jewish kid pretend to pray before a big game. But to try and exclude none Christians or say Christians can do youth sports better is just not cool. [/quote]

thanks for your input Hillary, we appreciate it. please stop worrying about youth Lax and go back to your failing campaign.

Then you have 2 other options if you feel that way. In NJ and PA families have to travel 60+ miles for a top program, consider yourself lucky and stop complaining

I don't follow you. Why would any player of non Christian faith have to deal with FCA? FCA, like all of the clubs, are private enterprises. It isn't like this is happening at your local public school. If you'd sell your soul to the devil for your kid to play with the best despite him having to "deal with the uncomfortable feeling of all the extra," then that is on you.

I hold the FCA team at my son's age group in very low regard, but I'm also Catholic and don't see the attack on the concept of a Christian based team as legitimate, particularly given your thought process. That being said, I agree with sentiment that FCA (coaches and players) often conduct themselves in a manner contrary to their mission and values.

for 2020 there are - Crabs, Looney's (2 teams), Hawks (2 teams, I think), 91 MD (2 teams), and FCA (2 teams). If a child or their parents don't want to deal with religious dogma then the child can tryout for any of the other teams. If he doesn't make the top team for any of those, they all have "A" teams (or "B") that would probably take him.

If parents want to pay their club fees and include prayer they have the right to do so. The few people that this offends should find another club and stop crying. These are not rec programs!

Loophole? What loophole? The divisions are by grad year. It's not a loophole if the kids are playing for the grade they are in

Keep telling yourself that-the folks with morals will never buty it no matter how many times you say it. The intent of grade level was never to have kids hold back and then participate with kids 1-2 years younger than them. Let's see if Hoco stands behind their mantra of putting kids first and has the nerve to stand up to these guys who are ruining the sport and put in some maximum ages similar to the Denver dates. Otherwise, they just become part of the problem and their youth sport program is then questionable too.

What are the current grade based/age restrictions for HOCO?

I agree its America and they are not Rec. teams. But as a non Christian I would like to just deal with Lacrosse and only lacrosse not a club excluding kids even if it is in a passive way. I live out of the FCA area really but I wanted to bring it to the four front. I agree its not a big big deal for 99%. of people. But why do you have to add the grief of dealing with religion while playing Lacrosse and youth sports.

You don't have to deal with any grief. Play somewhere else. You must be one of those that needs a safe space if you are offended by a private enterprise including prayer as part of its offering. How about the fact that most clubs end up excluding kids in a non-passive way by cutting them? C'mon man.

that's ridiculous. as prior posters have said - you need not deal with the "grief" of religion by choosing not to be part of their program.

I'm not Jewish but I drink He-Brew beer and eat National Hebrew hotdogs.

my son doesn't play for FCA, but they must be doing something right. They probably have the biggest turnout of kids for tryouts every year. If a child isn't Christian and the praying is offensive to the child or parents then don't sign up for the club.

People need to stop pushing their non Christian ideas and bigotry on others.

There are two different discussions here about FCA. One is the idiot who is complaining about religion and lacrosse. Agreed - that's a ridiculous argument.

The other is the point about the players, coaches, parents all being arrogant, unsportsmanlike, jackasses. That's an extremely valid argument!

The idea of FCA is great. When the parents and the children do not live up the ideals the club was supposedly founded on, that is disappointing.

Please tell me one club where some parents don't act like jacka$$s? All clubs have a couple...and we can thank the horrible environment created by early recruiting for some of this behavior. I am an FCA parent, I like most of the parents involved in the club. I also like many of the parents involved in other clubs. As I mentioned, there are always a few bad apples, one shouldn't judge a club by the poor acting minority. And some of you are putting too much weight on the religious aspect of FCA. It is the backbone but the club does not push religious views on the players or families.

I totally agree that most teams have parents/fans that act like idiots but not to the extent of FCA. I have seen this first hand over the past few years and more than several games this behavior plus the foul language. This has no place at a youth sporting event. The other rub on FCA is the holdbacks. Again most teams have a few but FCA is clearly in second place behind Crabs, who have many holdbacks and some double holdbacks. FCA moves players around, especially for tournaments, such as moving 2019 players to a 2020 teams. Please don't deny this, I have seen it first hand as I know some of the players involved. Like you mentioned the religious aspect is the backbone of FCA, and I have no problem with this but I believe most feel with this FCA should be held to a higher standard and curtail the behavior/foul language and the movement of players/cheating.

FCA moves 3-4 players from the 2020 team to the 2019 team...you are mistaken. The boys are grade based 2020 players.

Part of the problem with FCA are the uneducated families it attracts. Part of it also are the Catholic families who think sports is the most important thing on the planet.

Add them together and you get obnoxious parents on the sidelines. The only other parents who can compare are Madlax parents.

Why point out the Catholics? I have seen just as many Jewish parents act like asses on the sidelines, though, I don't necessarily ask the jerk parent what their religion is.

More anti Catholic bigotry.

Those kids play for the 2019 team because they are holdbacks who 1 year+ older than most 2020 kids. At least tell the truth about their ages.

Who here wants to bet this guy is the biggest loudmouth tool parent on his son's team?

You can cry about it, but it's true. From a young age, the Catholics in this area cluster together and every sporting event is life or death.

so your son can't compete with the Catholic boys, or was you as child who couldn't compete? You are prejudiced! Bigotry has no place in sports especially youth sports!

Please try to be a better parent and raise you son to be nothing like you.

That's interesting. I'm Catholic. When I go to my kids games, unless the parents go to the same church or they are close friends, I have no idea what religion, much less denomination they are. Do you go up to the crazies and just ask what religion they are?

Holdbacks, now religion, love it. Soon, " He is not really your son!" Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,

You are absolutely correct, they are members of FCA 2019 team and they are moved to FCA's 2020 team when needed. And... there are many more than 4 or 5 players, it is close to two thirds of the team, if not more.

Next lacrosse game I attend I am going up to all parents and asking 1) religion (because that is important in the game of lacrosse) 2) their child's age (so I can rationalize the loss) 3) income level (why not) and of course 4) education level..those factors seem important to the success of a lacrosse team. I will disregard red solo cups and drunken parents, because that is OK

FCA also move "AA" kids down to the "A" team for tournaments when "AA" isn't playing. They cheat just as bad as Crabs.

Who is in the HoCo league for 2020 AA?

1)religion only if they are a club (ahem) that spouts their foundation is Christian and then behave poorly. Is a mockery of Christian values
2)If you are cheating you are cheating - those on the receiving end of cheating do not have to rationalize anything. It is the holdback parents who constantly rationalize that it is okay to have kids 1-2 year older on the same field just so they can win.
3 & 4) Seems like education and income coincide with #2. Private school encourages holding back and the ability to afford private school (or pretend you can afford it) is directly proportional to income.