BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) sometimes its NOT all about the kids

My 2021 son is on a competitive B/B+ team. he received hi marks at all of his tryouts and chose his current team. Candidly I think it is the right level for him, he would not standout on a 91A or IglooA. A solid player nonetheless. Works hard, and rarely misses practice. He has a passion for the game. His first year of travel was last year playing for a C team, and he was the top scorer there.

A little past midyear this year, (and after all dues were paid), coach switches him from position he always plays to one that is relatively unfamiliar to him. He never really received instruction on how to play the new position, and he played nervously there. His game playing time decreased dramatically- one minute or less- not exaggerating. His game play was cold and nervous. I tried several times (no screaming, no attacking) talking to the coach about the situation, he is adverse to talking to parents. So I emailed a couple of times, and still no response.

I am not a complainer without reason for concern, and i respect that it is the coach's decision when and where to play his/her players. But I see my son's passion being drained out of him. He is discouraged, he is not learning, not developing. The coach doesnt care about my son, that is clear, and my son cannot continue playing for this team, that is clear too. Tryout evaluations are not an exact science of course. And a coach has to become familiar with his team. But this is really an extreme situation. If my son was good enough to make the team, he shouldnt be treated like this. I wish that the coach's decisions and evaluations about my son were made much earlier, so that he would have had the chance to play for another team. My only concern is my son in this situation.

I see many posts on BOTC about long island lacrosse being 'all about the kids' and I hope that the coaches and directors who have talked the talk about that can now walk the walk, and help my son find a place to play for the rest of the season. I would hate to see him lose his love for the game. He is really discouraged and disappointed. Who can blame him.

If anyone out there needs a solid B+ 2021 player, please PM me. I can provide references to his skill level, willing to try out, and money is not the issue. Willing to travel as well.

Thank you.

Wow. Sounds like youre a victim of a moneygrab. 3

I'm sorry that happened to your son. You are correct, it is not always about the kids. I also see part of the problem being that try outs for most of these teams are in August/September. The kids make a team, commit to it, decide later on they want to switch. Leaving a team with open positions, so a coach needs to make changes. On the other hand, kids develop A LOT between try outs and tourney season. At such a young age, there is so much change in ability, both good and bad. The money grabbing should all stop and kids should try out for summer leagues in the Spring, like it used to be.

I don't know how to PM on here but are you in suffolk? we're a 2021 team and we wouldn't turn your son away

We are in nassau. Would like to talk to you as well

if you log in as a user, the original poster can send you a private message, unless you care to post your email or phone contact info.

thank you so very much for the replies. really appreciate them. if you can please send me a private message with your contact info i will get in touch with you right away.

its just that i posted previously on this topic, and the thread was taken down, im not exactly sure why, but i dont want to take a chance of having it taken down again. i am trying to be respectful of the board, and also the team for whom my son joined this year.

you can send me a private message by clicking my username "EMTuKnowMe" and it will give you an option to send a private message.

thanks

ok we're out east. Hang on let me figure out how to log on I'm new to this. we have a couple kids from Nassau on the squad. matter of fact here's my email bobbyo678@gmail.com shoot me an email I'll give you my number on there.

that's a shame

You are doing your son a big disservice. He needs to learn to play through adversity and also at his age he should be able to play every position. He has a challenge in life and it is up to him to meet the challenge and learn the new position. Your job is to help him develop the backbone to meet tough challenges.

My advice is to tell your son to step up his practice intensity and ask the coach what he can do to become a better player. In the meantime encourage him to develop his stick skills on the wall and focus him on being in good shape. Lacrosse is about stick skills and running.

Next year you can try out for a different team.

he said the coach won't speak to him

as i had typed in my earlier post, i cant talk to the coach, he wont talk in person and wont return my emails. i appreciate the fact that you responded, but, if he's good enough to make the team then he is good enough to play more than a minute on the field. and if the coach cared, he would spend some one on one time to coach my son about the way he thinks my son should play the position. i dont think having him play for such a short period during a game is the way to encourage him. if its obvious to me what is happening to my son, its visible to the coach too. i think the coach has a certain responsibility here, and he hasnt really lived up to it. of course this all could have been avoided had the coach made his adjustments and evaluations much earlier so that my son could have played for another team.

in any event thanks for your reply

Move to another club, no need to beat yourself up with these posts. Don't try and make sense of a senseless situation. Not all kids fit the coaches mold and not all coaches fit the kids mold.
Move on!

man gone are the days when the varsity coaches employed by the schools ans already making a generous salary would just get a little part time gig in the summer bartending or as a life guard for a some pocket money or to stay busy. now it's gimme gimme at the expense of people's pockets and the community. people wake up these summer programs ran by the school mean nothing. nor will it make or break your kids chances of making and starting on the varsity roster. my kid never did it. played football as well as lacrosse. so when lax ended it was time to get ready for football. when football ended time for lax. my son knew what to do to stay sharp for lacrosse. his stick was in his hands for forty five minutes to an hour everyday without fail. if it was nasty out he'd be inside. I have the marks on my basement wall as proof lol. and he was all county in both sports. so don't give me these summer teams ran by the school hone their skills and it's worth the money. stop drinking the kool aid. I've seen quite a few schools just as invested in lax as another and still can't make the playoffs at the varsity level year after year. it means nothing these summer money grabs. don't think it helps

Just look at the YJ owner, big school job with benefits and then a thriving club /camp/tournament organization with almost 30 teams and 10 owned tournaments. Probably has revenues of $1.5-$3.0 million a year. Its not big business, its HUGE

man gone are the days when the varsity coaches employed by the schools ans already making a generous salary would just get a little part time gig in the summer bartending or as a life guard for a some pocket money or to stay busy. now it's gimme gimme at the expense of people's pockets and the community. people wake up these summer programs ran by the school mean nothing. nor will it make or break your kids chances of making and starting on the varsity roster. my kid never did it. played football as well as lacrosse. so when lax ended it was time to get ready for football. when football ended time for lax. my son knew what to do to stay sharp for lacrosse. his stick was in his hands for forty five minutes to an hour everyday without fail. if it was nasty out he'd be inside. I have the marks on my basement wall as proof lol. and he was all county in both sports. so don't give me these summer teams ran by the school hone their skills and it's worth the money. stop drinking the kool aid. I've seen quite a few schools just as invested in lax as another and still can't make the playoffs at the varsity level year after year. it means nothing these summer money grabs. don't think it helps

that's exactly what I'm talking about but as usual none of those people being called out will admit it

I agree. Some people you just can't figure out. The coach is doing what he's doing and you'll never know why. It's not a good fit for your family. Move on when you can.

I empathize with you; however, I agree with the above poster that a 6th grader should be able to play every position. Been thru many, many years of travel lax here on Long Island and it's for the kids to play and learn in 6th grade. Its not (contrary to some thoughts) a recruiting year. Yes, my kids have had not so great years...some teams just don't mesh. The have had phenomenal champ.years and continue to play as adults and now coach themselves. Your son is at every practice? and every game? Coach seems to be confident in your son's ability to switch positions. Maybe he sees a skill in him that no other coaches have. Maybe the other kids are better on some days. If a kid is truly passionate about a team sport, then he knows that that riding the bench, switching position, helping their team win is all part of it.

i appreciate all the posts. and my situation (and consequently my sons) is definitely, but only partly, a product of my ignorance and naivite of the long island lax world. but i have received several private responses from some people who seem to have their values straight when it comes to what a lacrosse program should be, and it is far from what my son and i have experienced with this current team. so yes, im a victim of a money grab, and i am guilty of thinking the particular lax team we chose to play for is going to care about my son more than they care about winning for better publicity next year.

the whole process reminds me of marketing for newborns. all of the stores and companies who manufacture and sell these fancy pacifiers, and special formulas pretty much claim that "if you dont buy our product, your baby is going to become brain damaged, choke to death, or grow horns".

maybe there should be a body that governs the coaches who run teams on long island. some sort of governing body to set forth certain standards and values teams should follow, like an emphasis on school grades, volunteer work, working with the underprivileged or communities who dont have a lax program, and it wouldnt be mandatory for any club to join such a governing organization, but earning an endorsement from such an organization might give parents who were/ are naive and ignorant like i was/am a better feel for what kind of team they are committing to. im sure my situation is not unique. there must be others that this happens to. but i also know from the private responses i received that there are coaches and directors who take their responsibility to the kids more seriously than our present coach, and im glad for that. so to the poster who suggests to 'move on', that is exactly what we are doing, and doing so much more educated about the world of long island lacrosse.

i hope, nonetheless, that all of this brings to light to the readers of this thread, particularly coaches and directors, that its not just about winning games. its about creating good kids who turn into good people. and what happens to a kid in the hands of coaches, especially a kid who is in his formative years, can really make an impact on him one way or the other. thats a big responsibility. but that is the responsibility you signed up for.

to all the great people who sent private messages, i thank you for stepping up, and helping my son take the next step in the right direction. im sure this will all be a distant memory very very soon for my son and i.

thanks for your post. to be sure, its not like my son is out there in his new position dropping every pass and muffing every throw. but without playing time on the field, there is no way he is going to get better, and i think at the price paid, and the fact that he made the team, he should be getting better coaching, there should be better communication, OR, the coach should have been up front with him/me long before this tourney season about his decisions and evaluation about my son. this is not one game he has had next to no game play time, it is many games. i also think, if not for the price paid, but for common courtesy, the coach should have given me some time to talk with him or returned my emails. you could be right. maybe the coach sees something in him that no one else does. but who would know that- the coach wont talk to me about it. this team is not a match for me and my son. i get it. but i think that could have been determined by the coach much earlier than now. he now has a big disadvantage to getting on another team. and had we known earlier, we wouldnt have spent the time we did committing to this particular team. we would have done something else, something more constructive and useful.

I'm 2021 travel coach. I think communications and setting expectations is absolutely key and parents and children deserve it. Find a team that is a good fit.

That said . . .

I remember my U11 team's VERY first tournament. We came back from down 1-5 at halftime and won the championship. As pulled up the driveway to my house, I got a call from a parent who said the fact I didn't play his kid enough in the championship "was going to ruin his love for the game." Problem is that his kid wasn't fighting hard for GB's off the FO wing. Other problem - and I really never had the heart to tell the dad this - was that his son was hiding on the end of the bench because he was afraid to go in and let the team down. In a perfect world, I have time to pay him more attention and build his confidence. Down big with running halves and no TO's, I didn't.

I think it's a parent's job to tell their kid to keep working harder and practice harder if they want to play more. I don't think this is a time for sympathizing or internalizing your kid's emotions- we live in a world where you have to step up to challenges. This is key time for parenting and I know exactly which of my parents do this and which don't.

I also think parents commonly overvalue gameplay experience and undervalue practice time experience. Is game experience valuable? Yes, but that builds on top of good fundamentals and knowing what to do on the field, which is built in practice. Confidence is important, and some kids may need to be one of the best players on a team to obtain it, but I have no doubt that playing on a team where you have to work your tail off to earn minutes - and the parent reinforces this message versus wondering why their kid doesn't play more - is better developmentally.

My points aren't to you, because you have a uncommunicative coach and that's unacceptable, but did hit a couple points to which I'm sensitive. I'm a parent too and just in the last week I've worried about playing time, but only because I was worried (pretty sure) kids were added to roster for money reasons who the coach then felt an obligation to get on the field, thus diluting my kid's PT. My point is that we're all human, but must manage our own emotions to be the best parent we can be.

Excellent post coach!

myself as a coach also I've received those same phone calls after championship games as well. it's the last phone call you want to receive. but if a kid.is hiding at the end of the bench and each team has a few then how do you get him on the field. I had a kid in a game some years back, we were up by quite a few in a game and I figured it was time to clear the bench and make sure all the boys get ample playing time when I looked to my right and called his name, you know what he told me? I have a stomach ache. this was a twelve year old not a six year old

Yes, coach, very good post, and provides a nice view from the coach's eyes. parents definitely play an important role in their kids' development, arguably the most important role. and im happy to know that as a coach you seem to have a great approach to your kids. your advice to find a team that fits is well taken. for the coach/director who really cares, it is a hard balancing act. but caring is the important part. not just saying you care.

admittedly, its very hard for me to remove myself from the situation, it is my son after all. what father wouldnt be emotional over it. i am trying to be as objective as i can about it all. and i love your thought about having to manage emotions to be the best parent we can be. that is spot on.

but just getting back to my situation for a moment, i would much rather have known earlier about the coach's evaluations and decisions, not when tournament season is upon us. or maybe just a comment to me or my son about what he needs to do to or where he needs to get to in order to earn playing time at all.

for what its worth, coach, i appreciate your post, as i hope others do.

thanks for replying.

i would think that is the exact situation where the parent has to be more of a parent. im sure when that call came you politely told the parent the resaon why the kid didnt play. a coach cant be everything to everyone. i didnt mean to imply that by any of my posts if i did. but, i do feel that there should be a certain level of accountability and responsibility parents and players can expect from coaches and directors at this level of play.

If only more coaches were like you. Unfortunately, too many have special interests and hidden agendas and don't really care about or understand what it takes to teach, develop and motivate.

To put the OP's comments in perspective, his son is completing 6th grade. The right coach at this age can make or break a player. Agree that parents must play a critical role in teaching kids to work hard, etc., but a good coach has a big impact on player confidence.

I think it's safe to say that there are more bad youth lax coaches on LI than good ones. Being a good player has NOTHING to do with being a good coach. This is what most parents and organizations don't seem to understand.

yes I'm always polite. it's a difficult task to handle unfortunately

I am reading this post with great interest as my son is in the same position: plays the minimum to avoid a pissed parent, but far from enough to have a legit shot to show something. You can't develop a rythm in a 1 minute shift.

Without judging me, my son or the current state of the world, I'd like to know here (not via pm as we havent made the move yet) if there are Nassau programs willing to give a spot to a B+ kid buried on an A team. He'd like to play this summer, and selfishly, we'd rather not commit to full day
Tournaments to watch him play for a total of 10 minutes.

i know you dont want PMs but that is the only way i can give you the info i have gleaned from others through this thread via PM. if i post it here the moderators will take down the entire thread. if you change your mind send me a PM.

im sorry for your situation.

i have now emailed the coach 3 times without a response.

does anyone feel i have a responsibility to the lax community to do something more at this point so that this type of behavior by a coach is discouraged? i know it wont prevent another coach from doing this again, but maybe certain coaches will think twice before doing this to someone else, and if that coach is on the fence about what to do, my further action in this case will nudge him/her in the right direction? if you think i should do something more, i am welcome to suggestions you have. note, that this particular team is associated (or claims to be associated) with college and MLL players who surely are not aware of this situation right now. also some of the team uniform was not delivered, and of course the tournaments which are part of tuition wont be played with this team.

i dont want my son nor i to be labelled 'that guy' that is a troublemaker if he doesnt get what he wants. im doing my best to go through the proper channels of communication and i assure you im not coming across to the coach like a fanatical parent. as i hope is reflected by my posts i am trying to be reasonable in all respects.

or should i just 'move on' as many have suggested?

thank you for any constructive input.

Are you sure you have his correct contact info? Not getting back to you after 3x try's is absurd

That is not absurd at all. Actually it is becoming the new normal on LI. Most coaches don't want any communication with the parents that pay their salaries. On most teams all communication comes from someone other than the coaches.

Move on.

Not with the good coaches.

i am sure. i have received emails from him previously and am using that same address. but i will take your suggestion to heart and i will search for other addresses of his. thank you for replying.

The coach's email address is posted at a very reliable source where other team members and members of this coach's other teams can see it and use it. I am confident i am using the correct email address.

thank you.

How about picking up the phone?

Ditto. You already said you found another option, let it go.