BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Looney's Boys Lacrosse

Crabs and looneys are Waaaay behind the LI teams and light years behind crush

Denver? Why would anyone waste their time and money for that farce of a tournament?

Being able to go to Denver and being a legitimate 2020 (born after 05/01/2001 - for this tournament) are not the same thing. I have seen these kids close up, no way they are 13/14.

Yea right, they are 15 -16 year olds. No wait, they only paly like their 15-16 year olds. Get a grip. Appreciate good players and good lax and move on. [/quote]


Well, look at it this way...statistically, how many 13 year olds are 6' tall or more, probably not many, right. Given that, how could they have 4-5 of them in one group of 20?[/quote]

As usual, your simpleton attempt at stats fails. Kids who are playing athletics are not the same as a normal sample of kids, let alone athletes playing at a high level. It is easily possible for an elite youth team to have kids larger, faster, stronger, etc. than most kids at that age.

Keep on crying, dad. [/quote]

Not crying, just SMH. The CDC publishes data on this. At the 95th percentile a 13 year old boy is approximately 5'7 145#. A 6'+ 13 year old is off the charts - 99.999999 percentile. Four of them in a group of 20? Don't think so.[/quote]

A few points:
Your number is an exaggeration even given the numbers you use. See http://reference.medscape.com/calculator/height-age-percentile-boys for yourself.

Holdbacks or not the age of an elite team is going to skew higher so 13.5 or more is a better age to use. Older kids are simply more likely to make the team.

The lacrosse demographic is wealthier than average so it probably skews taller and the CDC table isn't reflective of the actual players

A player in helmet and cleats is going to look taller than he is.

Using the CDC tables approximately 1% of 13.5 year old boys are going to be 5' 10 or taller. Using 14 as an age it is more like 3.5%.

Given that the teams are selected by tryouts from a well nourished demographic, it doesn't seem unreasonable that an elite team would have several players that are as large as grown men when they are playing even if they were all 13-14 years old.

And the 2 - 6 Footers that Looney's has will be Crabs next year. If their smart.....Oh and if they can play.[/quote]

This is comical that you need to go through an entire justification for a club that is well known and openly admits to having a large majority of holdbacks. Not the kid's fault - blame the parents and the coaches who feel they need to do this and then justify it. No need to argue - it is the team's way and the rest of the clubs simply need to understand it is the coaches and the parents choice to teach their kids this mentality. [/quote]

The claim is that to the extent there are holdbacks on the 2020 crabs team they meet the 5/1/2001 requirement for the warrior tournament and are thus just turning 14. To me that wouldn't be that big a deal. A lot of parents start boys with summer birthdays late. Is that actually the case or do they really have 15 year olds on their 2020 team?

Cut off of 5/1/2001 is a joke and not a true 2020 team. A kid born 5/15/2001 should be a 2019 player. This was done to accomadate someone or some team.

Actually there are many summer birthday kids who are legitimate 2020s in Maryland. 2019-2020 was the year there was a change in Maryland law with respect to school age that took effect the year the class of 2020 was to begin kindergarten. Some opted to send their kids and have them on the young side and some opted to give those who were not socially ready yet because they did not anticipate the change in age to have some more time and seemed to affect kids born the summer of 2001. Our team is not going to Denver but has 3-4 kids born in the summer of 2001 that did not do pre-1 and were never held back.

Would agree that Crush is the leader but on any day the other teams are a toss up on who would win.

It will most likely be a mix of current rostered 2020s with a back fill of 2021s that meet the 5/1 date. No question they will send a team all age verified but the question is whether it is the team currently rostered for league play.

The claim is that to the extent there are holdbacks on the 2020 crabs team they meet the 5/1/2001 requirement for the warrior tournament and are thus just turning 14. To me that wouldn't be that big a deal. A lot of parents start boys with summer birthdays late. Is that actually the case or do they really have 15 year olds on their 2020 team?[/quote]

MIAA has a rule that you can't turn 19 prior to the start of school year and play sports. So any 2020 who is 15 would be sitting out his senior year of lax in the league that one would presume that most Crabs are interested in playing in. Not to say it has never happened or will never happen but the double holdback is largely a myth, unless you consider holdback and then PG. I'm sure a few that push the limit, meaning fall/winter '00 that are in 2020. I was 17 in fall of freshman college. Boy times have changed

That is a great point. For some reason the parental mindset is the kindergarten kids get a "pass" whereas a middle school holdbacks are labeled as cheaters.

It's crazy that you don't see a 5 yr old that still needs a nap at 2 , can't articulate, sit still for more than 3 minutes or separate from his mother the same as a kid that wants to play with younger kids in lacrosse. Really??? Yes, let's hold our 12 year old back now so that he can fit in with the younger kids. Craziness! If the kid is failing 8th grade- time would be better spent studying than playing sports.

USA Lax is a terrible organization. How they allow the disparity in age groups is unreal. Don't understand why they can't come out with some type of firm bylaws holding clubs, leagues and tournaments to firm birthdate that are enforced.

As a new parent to Lax, it seems as if the rules change per team / season. Kind of reminds me of young kids playing games, each changing the rules of the game as they go along to accommodate their respective strength and weaknesses. You don't see this in other sports!

OMG this age crap is getting ridiculous. AAU basketball is far worse than lacrosse. Girls lacrosse has the same setup in terms of grade based and has for years. What is even considered a hold back in your eyes? Is a late spring/summer birthday going to prefirst a holdback? Or is it just if the kid repeats a grade sometime after he starts middle school? In 90% of the cases where a kid is older for his grade, it's because he went to prefirst. The older format of U-11 and U-13 had bigger age gaps than the current system. So it just sounds like your pissed because A. Little Johnny got spanked by Crabs or B. Little Johnny got cut from Crabs or C. All of the Above.

This is coming from a parent of three on age kids. This is the way the system is. If your child is a good player, they will be fine wherever they play. Wins and losses in these games mean absolutely nothing in terms of college coaches. They don't even pay attention to the scores. So what's your goal here? To have bragging rights because your son's team beat Crabs, or to have your son become a better player and play in college? Hopefully it's the latter which can be accomplished at many clubs.

It is about many things but given your text, you would miss the point. Let's just say, folks who manipulate the system for their own benefit (or in this case to make their little Johnny "bigger, better, stronger" or better than other kids in the appropriate grade) do not have the quality of true sportsmanship. AAU has strict age guidelines and the girls side of lacrosse does not have the same issues as boys. Girls have always been grade based. Boys have not been and one club in particular saw the change as an opportunity to manipulate the system. The kids who do not manipulate the system are put at a disadvantage in several ways

You are incorrect on both AAU and girls lax. AAU is going all grade based as well. My son was in a 4th/5th grade tournament last weekend and there were kids that should have been in 7th grade but had repeated a grade twice.

Nearly as many girls go to prefirst as boys. While you don't have the girls transferring in 8th grade like the boys, you still have teams that have a lot of girls that are a year older than the rest.

Again, you single out Crabs with this. If you think that FCA, Breakers, etc don't have any of these kids you are mistaken. I agree, the parents are taking advantage of the system, but are you saying Crabs should turn them down and let them go play for FCA or Breakers?

This is a misleading post. The Crabs encourage and promote holding back and have worked hard to insulate themselves from age appropriate competition. Any reasonable person would view this as manipulating the system, e.g. cheating. It is no different than steroids, videotape and underinflated balls, except USLacrosse is no NFL.

Only an unreasonable person believes that it is cheating to break a nonexisting rule. These teams play grade based and then find the biggest fastest most mature players that meet that criteria. Some of those players will be holdbacks. They then enter tournaments and schedule games against teams following those same (lack of) rules. What npyll or tournament rule have they violated? If there wasn't a rule against filming other teams or deflating balls than the patriots wouldn't have been in trouble. The teams the holdback teams play obviously don't have a problem with it or they would put in age limitations. Nobody who attends young gunz had any illusions about the age of the players in the AA division. Just because someone doesn't play by the rules that you wished existed doesn't make them a cheater. It may make them someone you don't want to play or associate with but that is your choice.

No, only a narcissistic, immature person would think you only do things if there is a clearly defined rule telling you to do it. There's no rule demanding people be kind, charitable, brave, caring, sympathetic, charitable, fair, etc. Mature adults can recognize right from wrong without having to consult a rule book. Shallow, weak individuals like yourself just search for the most convenient excuse to defend your selfish decisions. Always looking for the loophole that benefits you. All the excuses won't change the simple fact that every holdback just couldn't cut it at their own age level. That has to be a painful admission for both parents and kids alike. There just has to be a cringe of embarrassment every time he steps on the field. There goes my "winner". What a joke!!

Well said. These hold back apologists either don't get it or do but could care less. Holdback MIAA school kids along with Crabs and a few other clubs have been the driver of this youth grade based club system. Only a select group get to play down and that is mainly MIAA school holdbacks.

I think everyone thinks it is unfortunate that a child is held back for whatever reason. Some people are kind, charitable and sympathetic enough to feel for the child and their kids are brave enough to play against the holdbacks. Narcissistic immature people become jealous and angry and call the kids a
"Joke". Which are you?

Looney's had a great 2015 and very good 2016 team. Rest of the club is a disaster, especially the 2017 team.

Well that's over now. Now they only have decent 2020 but they too are on the decline.

You guys are all nuts. Their youth program is doing well this year. Like any other club every couple of years they have good teams. Honor the game and appreciate the commitment of every club in developing kids. As long as the kids have a fun and memorable experience that is what club is about. Stop bashing every club hiding in your dark cave anonymously.

Bingo- "The Crabs...have worked hard to insulate themselves [and their holdback competitive advantage] from age appropriate competition" Crabs are pushing this grade based competition over the easily verifiable age based standards USED BY EVERY OTHER SPORT AT THE YOUTH LEVEL!!

No reasonable person can defend this practice in this context.

Bingo! Well said! Unfortunately folks like this will never "get" it and will continue to justify their decisions to themselves and everyone else.

"Honor the game" would be rostering kids that follow the spirit of the rules - not placing kids 1-2 years older on the field so they look better than the kids that are truly honoring the game. Holdbacks affect everybody not just little Johnny. Realizing that fact would "honor" the game.

I would just like more transparency on which kids are older and which are not. As a 2019 avg. size april birthday 2001 kid. Its hard to know if he is a avg. player or a great player playing with older kids. As a parent you have to know if you are setting your kid up for failure or not. Or wasting your money. Some parents do not look at there kids like they do no wrong on the field. But not knowing if they are playing in a game with 20, 15 and a half year old kids its hard to now where your kid stands skill wise.

previous poster was responding to troll that comes on here every so often and bashes Looney's for have great 2015 and 2016 teams and so-so teams afterwards. For better or worse club lax has replaced rec travel for most AA, A & B players. So now there's more than just a handful of clubs and the talent is spread out. Most clubs won't have elite teams at every each group. Looney's does at 2015,2016,2020. a few younger teams dong very well too

2023 doing very well

"Only a select group get to play down and that is mainly MIAA school holdbacks."

Hmmm. MIAA kids are priviledged because they get to repeat a grade and play for the Crabs. Better get rid of all of the structural inequities in Baltimore before all of the other lacrosse parents start looting the local Starbucks as protest.

Seriously, you guys need to realize life is good if a few holdbacks are all you need to worry about.

[quote=Anonymous]"Only a select group get to play down and that is mainly MIAA school holdbacks."

Hmmm. MIAA kids are priviledged because they get to repeat a grade and play for the Crabs. Better get rid of all of the structural inequities in Baltimore before all of the other lacrosse parents start looting the local Starbucks as protest.

Seriously, you guys need to realize life is good if a few holdbacks are all you need to worry about.

In that light, my MIAA holdback is playing for Club Team CVS next year.

The 2020 have some of the best coaching around. :))))

2022 not so much.

All true. Somebody needs to email this post to the Madlax dads on this forum.

Let's be real. Most of these club kids are not having fun. Only a few actually learn something. It's the same rec(dads) coaching the clubs except CRABS.

Let's be real. Most of these club kids are not having fun. Only a few actually learn something. It's the same rec(dads) coaching the clubs except CRABS. [/quote]

That is a pretty inaccurate statement, Hawks for one have a handful of coaches that don't have players on their teams. The fathers that are coaching include a list of coaches with college playing experience. I'm sure with some research, this is true with a lot of other clubs as well.

Correct the only Dad coaching for any Madlax team is the head guy has his sons on the U9 team. And they are studs. But I do agree most of the B and lower A clubs have lots of dads coaching.

are you implying the only kids playing club lacrosse that have fun and learn something are on Crabs?

fca with another big win this weekend over looneys.

Do they play this weekend? Dont see that on the schedule....

2020 AA's would play in finals if they both win semi. i think that's what is referred to