BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2015 Spring Boys Varsity Lacrosse

Agreed, plus west I, Northport and about 5-6 B Teams all better than SW

I respectfully disagree. If the glass never gets enough talent to fill 1/2 of the perverbial cup you need to pull up. Look at some of the div 1 teams Longwood Brentwood Patmed William Floyd then Middle Country Bay Shore Lindy That's 7 of the 13 in League 1. Would be interesting to see these schools rosters. I'd bet they'd be sprinkled with underclassman if anyone were true players.

you have schools like hills e with primo 2018 recruits. Hills West had a freshman starter last year. Smithtown west had another freshman playing. Etc. I think when you sprinkle in younger players it strengthens the program.

Who cares the grade of a player, if an underclassman player is your best option You move them up and play them. After the safety of the students, what is a coaches job? I hope it is to win. Then build character and teach the sport to the best of the athletes and coaches abilities.

I am sure all the big school coaches, and junior and senior D1 commits are worried about the 3 fgreshman kids.please this is big time varsity when you are talking about winning it all.

You say worried, I say welcome those underclassman. If not for them then a lesser talented player gets the spot. And those D1 commits don't want that either.

A lesser talented kid that works is [lacrosse] off, but wasn't given the god given stuff,I think it is sad to take away that great experience of playing varsity high school lacrosse,from that kid, just to fill the ego of some parents.

not sure what your point is here. do you thin k if your kid doesn't have the talent to make team, he or she should be placed on team anyway and at expense of a better player so that he/she doesn't lose self esteem?

Varsity teams should always try and field the best team possible. In my community, the varsity coach would lose his position if he were not successful - a bad year or two is one thing but producing weak teams regularly would not be acceptable. I am not sure where parents come into the equation at all - it seems like parents of older kids that end up not playing much have much more problems with their egos being hurt - they seem to make all of the noise. I firmly believe in a meritocracy - particularly at the high school level. Start all seniors or start all freshmen - whatever gives your team the best chance to succeed. Not everyone gets a trophy at this age.

Agree with your point with only exception in that I find it is the parents of the younger kids egos being hurt - they were recruited early and maybe even committed but having hard time getting playing time due to older players who were late bloomers.

your h.s. coach would lose his job if they had 1 or 2 bad years?

CHALLENGE

I am saying they both are gonna sit the bench, but the junior or senior has no options, the 9th grader can play JV all game, wasting a year on the bench is stupid in my eyes, god have some fun.

I believe you misunderstood me - the hs coach would not lose his job for a couple of bad seasons but he most definitely be on the hot seat if it got to the 3-4 season period of poor performance - my point is that it is the coaches best interest to field his strongest team possible and the vast majority do ....

just because the last couple of years 9th and 10th graders have been committing does not mean they are better than kids who are class of 2015.
class of 2015 (definitely 2013/14) were not committing in 9th or 10th grade, but they are still on h.s. team . the culture may have changed but the game has not. with few exceptions , very few, in a strong h.s. program, the 11th and 12th graders are better off on the field. they have been playing in system and growing bigger and stronger ...and they waited their turn.

misunderstood what? read what you wrote. when was the last time a coach in even the best lacrosse program or community was deposed because of having even 4 average years? it doesn't happen.

it does not happen because the best programs remain the best each year - if a top hs program on LI reversed and it was because the coach was playing younger players then he would be gone

Exactly, you're not taking things into account like, tenure and union membership... You don't lose a job in that environment for poor performance. Will take much more than that.

Very true post. Sad but true

Since this is varsity HS not pal or travel I will say. Are you @&$)(;:/- kidding me.

What kind of lesson do you send when a loser talented player plays over a talented kid. A lesser talented kid does not start unless there is an attitude problem from the talented player. Players get adequate time commiserate to their skill or team need.

Yes you reward hard work, but not over talent. You can work hard workers in. Again back to the subject, ask the talented senior or that jr waiting for that call, who they want next to them or in goal or on the x or wing. Their friend or the young kid who is better and has shown can help win.

I tell my son when you get older and work, you are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. Don't let jealousy or pride get in the way. Work smarter not harder.

Oy vey!!!!!!!!!
For those who do t know what that means.... (Yiddish: אױ װײ), oy vay, or just oy—or even more elaborately- oy vey ist mir—is an exclamation of dismay or exasperation.

How those 9th graders do in Long Island champ game? Be honest if you had another older player you would have won.

I think we are overlooking the evolution of the game. Kids starting earlier, training getting better, stronger competition on clubs and town teams..........
The skill level of a talented 9th grader today is much higher than a 9th grader from even 3 or 4 years ago..

How did some d1 bound Sr's do. Goes both ways.

So didn't both Smithtown teams start underclassman. Sure they didn't win it all. But that isn't the point. The point is playing those kids over others less talented (over just being older and working hard being on the team). Seems like the right choice was made to me it brought both so far. You know there can only be two teams in the Li championships. Doesn't diminish the others teams talent.

Hhh was another team with notable few young stud players no Champ game for them, not now at least, that team will be solid coming up. Right call playing those kids.

Some of those lower "seeded"team had freshman and sophomores playing parly that into a year or two when their 'mates catch up and look out. There are some soph who wish they had better Sr's.

The point is if teams had the upper classman that were more talented they would have played. They didn't. Hhh had some posts about this last year. I said more not equal. Bring it on here and say underclassman should wait.

I say not. If an underclassman is equal in talent and poise, the underclassman wins the minutes.

The real loss is not having budgets for freshman, JV and varsity teams. This was the best format to build a progression as well as expose players to HS sports/ lax. Doing it this strengthens a program...

Did u win states ? The answer is no. You will not win states with freshman

But my son has to start as a freshman! He is the best player on his travel team! What's wrong with you people can't you see how great he is? I need him to start I mean he wants to start so badly.

his summer coach promised he would start at h.s. !!!

best players play - everyone loves to question the coaches and their motives - I think they do what they think is best for their program - you may not like it but in some cases freshman deserve to start - West Islip were pretty successful starting some freshman and that was already a few years back - kid from CSH started as an 8th grader - SE had an incredible year and I believe they started a couple of freshman - it is no the norm but to say it is wrong does not make any sense - coaches play the best

To be a HS coach is becoming a nightmare now with all the Summer recruiting crap. We all know HS coaches who are in a dilemma where a 9th or 10th grader is committed to big name ACC or Big 10 U but the Junior or Senior at the same position who is not recruited or going D3 is just as skilled and probably physically much stronger and gives the team a slightly better chance to win. Will be interesting to see what he does.

Stop making it a nightmare story. Freshman play because they are better. Coaches know it. I would not be surprised to se a 7th grader play varsity sometime this year. Ok you say a weaker school if you know but div 1 non the less. I am sure the players will welcome it and some May question it but see what happens.

You play the best you have and if any players skill and size fits the need nothing better who cares grade. If they care grade they should get fired!!!! Safety should be the only concerned

7th grader really, are you stupid.

He's not stupid, just biased. It's his 9th grader and rising 6th grader he has in mind after all.

The lax world has gone looney tunes. This generation of high school and youth laxers will have a high price to pay for all of the rush-to-commit mindset that has developed around the game.

Show me a 10th grader that knows where he wants to go to college (i.e. the right/best school for the Profession he chooses), and I will show you a liar.

Okay, maybe the rare kid (holdbacks?), who has academics locked down and has matured ahead of his time is ready to commit to a college in 10th grade.

8th & 9th grade commits? Rubbish.

Rubbish? Liar? Says the angry dad of a kid that has no chance of an early verbal

If the senior is as skilled and "probably" physically much stronger and gives the team a slightly better chance to win... the coach will play him. The coaches and EVERY kid on that field knows who should be playing. the only people that have problems with this are the dads in he stands! The anger and jealousy over early recruiting is worse than the early recruiting itself. "Show me a 10th grader that knows where he wants to go to college, and I will show you a liar"? Give me an 11th or 12th grader that knows any better. Most of these kids have been traveling and visiting schools for years. Parents are involved (sometimes overly) and guiding them. It actually gives most of these kids more drive and focus. There are definitely some concerns with the early recruiting but the anger and hatred towards these kids and their parents is ridiculous. Again, LAX 101...play your best players!!! You wouldn't "dumb down" your academics for a very hard working senior with a B average, so don't "dumb down" your athletic fields either!!

The best 17, 18 year olds would blow up any 9th grader, regardless of skill assuming the 9th grader is aged to his grade (14 turning 15 sometime in the calendar year after Jan 1st of 9th grade) the physical development in those years is enormous and it really shows up when there are rare events when a 15 year old gets on the field with 17, 18 year olds...some UA tryouts, the USA U-19 tryouts, etc. I'd say unless you are a goalie or a lightening quick FOGO, the physicality of every other position just smokes the young ones out. A 9th grader making an impact on a varsity team is explained mostly by those teams / leagues being weak. On LI there have been so few like Nicky Galasso, and I don't see any 8th or 9th grader that was freakishly advanced as he was in the recent year or two.

The Utopia team always plays the best players, hard to get on that team. I think it is not as simple as best players play - I do think that HS coaches will be under pressure to play early commits - How does a HS coach explain to a D1 coach that the kids he just sold him on is not playing? or a HS coach might think, wow Lax U coach thinks this kid is great, he must be so I am going to play him and find out.

Angry? No, just realistic. By the way, we'll pass on the early verbal (8th/9th/10th) if/when it comes. Entering 11th grade, probably more realistic our kids will have a solid idea of what they would like to do in life and what their major focus should be. If they don't know that, how could they possibly know what college is the best fit?

It's not about lax, it's about education. None of these kids will play in high school or college if they don't make the grades. So why rush the process?

If a kid is "all that", and a standout talent, the offers will stay on the table. And if he is borderline, or middle of the pack (which is more likely for most kids), then he is better served by taking the time to learn what he wants and finding the best college to fit those goals.

D1 benches are full of early commits, and so are the transfer wires.

Perhaps "liar" was too harsh, misguided might be better suited. Still adds up to rubbish.

What are all of you talking about, we are talking about LI Lax. Where in Div 1 you have brentwood Longwood Copiague Flyod Pat Med Bayshore lindy. I am not talking the best, the best 17 18 year olds lax players don't play there. Sr's at those schools may not be better than their underclassmen. Is that so incomprehensible. Get a grip, in some towns like 'Pequa it may not happen but even the S'towns who draw a large pool you saw underclassmen have pivotal roles. HHH will also be a contender coming up because of those underclassmen they have.

Stop making that all teams have great players that is not the reality. Some of these teams do need to be augmented by the younger players. be it Fresh Soph. I do think come playoff time you will see a few MS's get some time in a blow out.

I think all of you paranoid Jr and Sr's have it all reversed. The reality isnt because the are committed they are playing HS over another student. They are committed in college because they are good and have already proven it. In many cases in an environment much tougher than your HS team circle. Embrace it you may be surprised how they can help your son.

BTW I will agree a child may not have a clue what they want or where they should go but why not take the opportunity given especially at a strong academic institution. Many of these schools these kids are committing to are great schools or destination schools that are cant misses. Only time will tell if it was a hit whether 14 or 17.

I donot believe that the HS coach gets the 8/9th grader the early commit the travel coach does, therefore not much of a quid pro quo. The early commit is a good player. Something you seem to be minimalizing for some reason.

I am sure there are schools that don't need that early commit to play they have strength in numbers and there are those schools that need that early commit to play and be a leader. Why cant you understand not all schools are loaded.

What is the avg size of a HS Lacrosse team.

Are the parameters a function of interest in a particular school and limited on the max end by how may fit on a bus due to budget reasons.

Any more to it.

Most of the better LI high school Varsity teams have at least 50 players on the team. In my town it is always at least that many and no more than about 15 play in the games unless it's a 12-15 point blow out and even then it must he the 4th quarter.

They put as many kids on the team that they have uniforms.