US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2029-7th Grade Fall 2023/Summer 2024

You're funny. Most are ON AGE as documented with the facts above . . . but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

I'm not judging folks that choose to hold back. And I don't disagree with your comments about the financial motivations of club owners.

I'm just simply disproving the myth that holding back is the only route to big time D1. In reality the most talented kids will end up at the top schools whether they held back or not.

It’s not a myth, it’s factual, you chose 1 school. based on the ND roster, if you’re a public school kid you have a 12% chance of making the roster there. A whopping 6 out of 50 kids are public schoolers. Might want to reclassify or put Junior into a private school if ND is the dream.

The discussion was about holdbacks . . . not private vs public. I don't disagree that private kids make up the majority of the top tier D1 rosters. That doesn't mean they're hold backs. In most places in the US, public school lacrosse is lousy so good players gravitate to the privates whether they plan to hold back or not.

Yes, I chose ND because they are at the top of the heap right now. I presented facts. If you insist on spreading the myth that you have to hold back to go bigtime D1, please share the facts to back up your position.

Interesting conversation. I don’t think you need to be a holdback to commit to a top d1 program (top 20?). However the majority of top commits to these top programs are holdbacks, this years ND commits not withstanding. For the last several years, especially since 2020 most commits to these top programs are not on age especially the early September commits. Some are also PGs that are being stashed at prep schools to free up college roster sports. Thenproof (and I’m too lazy to crunch all the birthdays) has been show in IL recruitment database for the last 5 years.

I guess the confusion lies in the definition of “majority are holdbacks”. Is it 51%, 60% 75% 95%? If I had to say, it is somewhere between 65-70%. So you don’t NEED to holdback but it definitely is the norm, again only talking about top d1 and early commits.

And yes, prep schools are littered with not on age kids

Again, you're just repeating talking points you've heard from holdback dads justifying their decision or club directors looking for an extra year of tuition. The facts don't back up the argument. Below is a list of the 5-star 2025s. These are the best players all receiving countless calls on Sept 1. Only 47% (8 of 17) are holdbacks. You don't need to holdback to be elite . . . and no it is not the "norm".

Millon Feb-07
Merrill Jul-07
Maher Jul-06
Ortlieb Apr-06
Hopper Feb-07
Drago Sep-06
Lally Oct-05
Seibel Jul-06
Cooper Mar-06
McDonald May-07
Pedicano Nov-06
Hahn Sep-06
Iuliano Mar-07
Higgins Aug-06
Kelley Aug-06
Hocker Apr-07
Diaz-Matos Jan-06

Tough to look yourself in the mirror and be proud of any accomplishments you have made when you cheat by holding back, unless of course you are a narcissist.

A good amount of these will be asked to take an extra year before college so that percentage will go up. Happens every year

Tough to look yourself in the mirror and be proud of any accomplishments you have made when you cheat by holding back, unless of course you are a narcissist.

Kids not a holdback, but enough it’s not cheating, maybe not ethical but not cheating.

Just because you found a way to do it doesn’t mean it’s not cheating. It’s cheating.

Anyone notice what a cupcake schedule CM gave Madlax aka “Supreme Nationals” at Club Nationals. Put all the strong teams in the South and West pools, and ML in the East with Mad Dog Gold (B team), Bostons Phinest and True Carolina. Meanwhile, South pool has Mad Dog Black (A team who put ML out last year), Red Hots National and Team 91 National and West pool has West Coast Starz A team and 3D National. Winner of South plays winner of West in semis. Madlax won’t play a competitive team until the championship (which they will likely lose big). This is significantly worse than 91 scheduling at NLF…borderline criminal. Is CM so desperate to have a good W-L that he dodges good competition? Kids may get a free pass into the championship but are they getting better like these other teams that are grinding it out against high-level competition? Considering the backslide last summer and this fall for ML, I would argue no.

Any non- national teams at this?

Just because you found a way to do it doesn’t mean it’s not cheating. It’s cheating.

Nah, this is one of those feel good events for the 15 year olds masquerading as 7th graders

It's so ridiculous, can't comment without it being about someone, never wrote that I did it, I wrote that it is factually not cheating. if you are this sensitive it's time to find a new sport because this one is going to chew you and your kid up really fast.

Bostons Phinest is rebranded JM3 you ding dong and is probably one of the strongest teams there. Full of 3d New England and other top circuit kids.

Roster for Boston is made up of mostly 3d NE.
All of the brackets are pretty even and fair.

6 of 11 Notre Dame recruits in the class of 2025 are NOT holdbacks. Their birthdates are on Inside Lacrosse. 6 of the 11 could have played in the World Series with the class of 2025 meaning they were born after 9/1/2006. Of the 5 that wouldn't have qualified for the WS, 2 were born in August '06 so they barely missed the cutoff.

Moral of the story . . . no, you do not have to hold back to be recruited to a top program or be a dominant D1 player. This is a falsehood holdback parents tell themselves and their kids to justify their decision.

#realstudsdontreclass

Here's the list . . .

2025
Iuliano Mar-07
Lally Oct-05
Kelley Aug-06
Diaz-Matos Jan-06
Lynch Feb-07
Gardner Nov-06
Mullahy Oct-06
Iglesias Feb-07
Popham Aug-06
Gryzenia Nov-06
Kenney Jun-06

Yeh that’s not happening. So you think having your kid repeat a GRADE just so he can compete with kids a year younger than him isn’t cheating? Then you teach your kid these great life lessons but don’t be surprised when they grow up with no moral compass.

This may be the densest statement yet. People are “fools and jealous” because they don’t see the “value” in holding back. So let’s start a new thread about “value” vs “cost”

Value
-gets to dominate against younger kids
-an extra year of maturity and maybe get their academics in order
-maybe, just maybe, but unlikely to translate into getting into a top d1 school
-parents get a sense a pride and boast how awesome their kid is

Cost
-you are telling their kid they can’t compete on a level playing field. Usually the parent and maybe the kid won’t ever realize this
-less skill development because you are competing against a less skilled cohort rather than on age
-all those friends he grew up with, say goodbye and here’s a whole new group of players
-this actually a literal cost as holding back may cost in the form of an extra year of tuition and extra year of club
-another literal cost of deferring a year’s worth of income down the road
-teaching a life’s lesson to game the system and cut corners to get ahead. Again most won’t realize it.

Everybody has different goals in life but to me, the “value” just doesn’t outweigh the “costs”. t’s lacrosse. It just makes no sense. Maybe basketball or football but makes zero sense for lacrosse.

Who wants to add to the list of perceived value and costs?

The value vs cost conversation was key for our decision to reclass. Nothing to with knucklehead above but here is the reality of how we looked at it:

Value
- Lost a year of education due to Covid, reclassing gives this back
- Move to a better (Prep) school and get a better education with better network
- Better school provides better pipeline into colleges
- Higher academic standards will push him to be his best.
- Education, education, education.
- Play against better competition.
- Go from a 50-100 IL recruit to a top 25 (Patriot League to ACC)
- I love boasting how great my kid is.

Cost
- do I want to pay for an extra year of school + the additional uptick in cost for Prep School
- School gave FA though dont really quality so that offset the additional cost
- 50% scholarship to a top academic University made up for the extra year and then some

Net net, we looked at the overall value and cost of reclassing while balancing the risk. It was a low-risk high reward for us based on the different value propositions.

Education could have been had by transferring without releasing. Cheater. Cheater. Cheater.

The value vs cost conversation was key for our decision to reclass. Nothing to with knucklehead above but here is the reality of how we looked at it:

Value
- Lost a year of education due to Covid, reclassing gives this back
- Move to a better (Prep) school and get a better education with better network
- Better school provides better pipeline into colleges
- Higher academic standards will push him to be his best.
- Education, education, education.
- Play against better competition.
- Go from a 50-100 IL recruit to a top 25 (Patriot League to ACC)
- I love boasting how great my kid is.

Cost
- do I want to pay for an extra year of school + the additional uptick in cost for Prep School
- School gave FA though dont really quality so that offset the additional cost
- 50% scholarship to a top academic University made up for the extra year and then some

Net net, we looked at the overall value and cost of reclassing while balancing the risk. It was a low-risk high reward for us based on the different value propositions.

Not really. He wasn’t going to get in to the school with out lacrosse and they werent going to give financial aid. Also, the lost COVID year and being able to give that back wasn’t an option by transferring……also the team didnt need him in the class so again nope, couldn’t get the education by just transferring. I do love that it pisses you off though. Add that to the value propisition. darn, the more I type it out the more it was a low cost high value decision.

Watching Boston play now. Thought this was an age verified tourney. Yellow helmet (QM) is not of age.

How many fly ins?