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Re: Cascade R helmets not certified
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
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You can go to a retailer and demand a credit toward a new helmet. They have to honor it. Cascade and Warrior have both said as much.


Anyone actually done this? ^^ And did they give you low-ball used "blue book" or the original retail? Thanks much!


yes. $250 gift card that i will use to buy a new helmet once everything has settled down.

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They don't have a choice. In the very least, you were sold a product that was not as it was represented, if not worse. Demand an immediate exchange. Any retailer that doesn't oblige you is irresponsible at best. [/quote]

Well, go give that a shot at your local LU or other dealer. They will not give you a refund or an exchange and will further instruct you to hold tight and all of this will be over soon because its a paperwork issue, which is what Cascade is telling them to tell you. I wasn't able to get any exchange or rebate whatsoever, and I can understand that LU and others are not too psyched to take a financial bath for Cascade, because it is not their fault. I am not cross with LU, but steamed and done forever with Cascade. They are failing the customers and hiding behind a story we all know is false. The only thing NOCSAE is likely to do soon is ban the other Cascade models as well.

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As a manager in retail my number one priority is to satisfy the customer without any resistance when something goes wrong. My son has the R helmet, I have made several calls to the retailers of both of these helmets and it's the same everywhere. NO HELMETS in stock and as I was told yesterday by one of the well known retailers of lacrosse equipment they don't even recommend anything that is comparable to the CPXR or R. So CASCADE what are we as the customer supposed to do? What is my son going to wear next friday when he has a game of which I already paid the fee to play in? I am not asking for refunds or compensation all I am asking is for a solution of which I have yet to hear about or see. Cascade you are not a small company and I am sure you have a very well paid staff of upper management personnel why haven't you as a company yet done something about satisfying the customer.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
You can go to a retailer and demand a credit toward a new helmet. They have to honor it. Cascade and Warrior have both said as much.


Anyone actually done this? ^^ And did they give you low-ball used "blue book" or the original retail? Thanks much!


yes. $250 gift card that i will use to buy a new helmet once everything has settled down.


No luck from me either. If you've done (the guy in the box above, post a pic of the card and/or receipt and I'll believe it. Until then, we're SOL, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This news clip is alarming...more than twice the allowable limit?! Yikes.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/popular-lacrosse-helmets-fail-to-protect-athlete%E2%80%99s-skulls/vp-9fba49a8-5bda-4afb-817b-37dee73cb096


Now given this, how in good conscience could Cascade be feeding the retail channel with some story about how this is all linked to the paperwork or the instruction manual which was not updated from the CPX to the R? Did that NOCSAE guy speaking sound like this was no big deal and is going to be straightened out soon? No. In a word he said at some fitted ranges taking impact wearing this helmet will result in fractured skull which would be prevented if the helmet was conforming to the certification standards.

It's over. Bye bye Cascade.


Nothing different in this tv news report than what we've already been told. Still, what is lacking is a real world understanding of what the testing and the numbers mean. So many people are in a panic about this issue without truly understanding what the difference is between certified and non-certified helmets. How much force is 2700 SI, as mentioned? I have no clue. Lacrosse is not football, hence the lighter helmet. Heck, the women don't even wear a helmet and their play can be very physical.

The R has been out for a while now and it's used primarily by bigger and stronger players. Does anyone know a kid who has had his head cracked open while wearing the R? I would be much more concerned if the decertification was the result of numerous complaints about injuries sustained while playing with the helmets in question. Instead, it was brought about by a competitor who happens to have an exec on the NOCSAE board.

I've got no connection to Cascade or Warrior and am concerned about the safety of my son, just like everyone else. The whole situation just smells fishy to me and I think it's just prudent to wait and see right now, if you can.


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Re: Cascade R helmets not certified
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Did Brine cancel their day tomorrow due to the helmet issue? We all know they played in bad weather last year?

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Bacharach and Rasin....where are you?! LOL

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Mitchel has grass too. Fields are a mess. Are you blind ?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bacharach and Rasin....where are you?! LOL


There's no "and" in Bacharach Rasin.
And "where are they"? They are gone! Out of business because even though we remember their helmet with the shoe lace tie in the back with warm fuzzy thoughts...that's because we all sustained many head shots...we can't help but also remember how crappy their helmet was. I still have mine and when my son looks at it he just laughs. Really though for those who are buying into this nonsense about the Cascade R being unsafe I ask you to find someone with the only helmet offered to us in the 70s and 80s, the Bacharach Rasin and see if you still feel today's Cascade R is unsafe. It's all bull shite.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did Brine cancel their day tomorrow due to the helmet issue? We all know they played in bad weather last year?


Great question. It is rediculus that the tryout was cancelled last minute. They knew damn well the weather was going to be fine today.gotta wonder what is going on!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bacharach and Rasin....where are you?! LOL


There's no "and" in Bacharach Rasin.
And "where are they"? They are gone! Out of business because even though we remember their helmet with the shoe lace tie in the back with warm fuzzy thoughts...that's because we all sustained many head shots...we can't help but also remember how crappy their helmet was. I still have mine and when my son looks at it he just laughs. Really though for those who are buying into this nonsense about the Cascade R being unsafe I ask you to find someone with the only helmet offered to us in the 70s and 80s, the Bacharach Rasin and see if you still feel today's Cascade R is unsafe. It's all bull shite.


I agree the R is probably not as unsafe as its been made to be, particularly when compared to helmets of yesteryear. But ask yourself, shouldn't the technology continue to get better for safety sake? Would you feel comfortable putting your son in your old helmet? Bull shite or not, the end result of this should be a safer R and a safer sport. Cascade will make it right, eventually, and I'm sure NOCSAE will alter its current procedures (i.e., not excepting self-reported compliance, commissioning or performing its own tests, etc.). If you think about it, this is a good thing...

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There's only one turf fuel at Mitchell. The opposite fields are usually in poor shape with no rain. With 150+ kids coming out from areas further than Long Island don't you think it would be wise to be safe and cancel ? I forgot you lax dads are also weathermen and groundskeepers too .

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Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.


At a tournament in Wellington FL this weekend players were told they could not play with the Cascade R helmet. They all used old helmets. One kid got hit in the head with a shot and the helmet shattered. Not sure of the make or model. Kid was air lifted to local hospital. Law suits coming. NOCSAE included.
And while we all wait for clarity on this serious matter, what exactly is NOCSAE, Cascade & Warrior doing for the public?

Either recall the product, or re-certify and make some statement that explains things clearly. This is total BS!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
There's only one turf fuel at Mitchell. The opposite fields are usually in poor shape with no rain. With 150+ kids coming out from areas further than Long Island don't you think it would be wise to be safe and cancel ? I forgot you lax dads are also weathermen and groundskeepers too .


I resent that as it sounds like you are talking to me!

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.


At a tournament in Wellington FL this weekend players were told they could not play with the Cascade R helmet. They all used old helmets. One kid got hit in the head with a shot and the helmet shattered. Not sure of the make or model. Kid was air lifted to local hospital. Law suits coming. NOCSAE included.
And while we all wait for clarity on this serious matter, what exactly is NOCSAE, Cascade & Warrior doing for the public?

Either recall the product, or re-certify and make some statement that explains things clearly. This is total BS!


That is horrific, and as I have written over and over it seems this sport is only comfortable with its head in the sand. The 2013 Purdue research study is not something lacrosse dads need to be diligent to find on PubMed, but 24sevenlax.com finds it a week or two ago after this mess is public. My worst fear is a kid would have to be seriously injured or worse for ANY PROPER ATTENTION AND URGENCY to arrive, and sadly...

I pray for this kid and his family that he will be ok. Horrible news and every parents' worst nightmare.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Bacharach and Rasin....where are you?! LOL


There's no "and" in Bacharach Rasin.
And "where are they"? They are gone! Out of business because even though we remember their helmet with the shoe lace tie in the back with warm fuzzy thoughts...that's because we all sustained many head shots...we can't help but also remember how crappy their helmet was. I still have mine and when my son looks at it he just laughs. Really though for those who are buying into this nonsense about the Cascade R being unsafe I ask you to find someone with the only helmet offered to us in the 70s and 80s, the Bacharach Rasin and see if you still feel today's Cascade R is unsafe. It's all bull shite.


In that era there were also hockey players who did not wear any helmets. You seem determined to point out that Cascade Rs are safe, but they don't meet the same safety standards impact tests Cascade itself proposed to NOCSAE for implementation years ago. This standard is the same one Cascade funded through research and outlined to propose as a NOCSAE standard to NOCSAE years ago. The Rs fail standards. Hard stop, period.

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Any events cancelled last weekend?

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For 3d (and anyone else doing something similar to this) to issue this statement and allow people to sign a waiver is reckless and negligent on their part. No matter your opinion on how safe the R really is, and how this NOCSAE issue is just an administrative problem that will be quickly fixed, 3d is setting itself up for a lawsuit by allowing people to play with defective, decertified equipment.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is what one of the largest club and events chain sent out last night, and would be curious how other clubs or events chains are communicating:

Dear 3d Customers,

As you may be aware, the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE) recently announced that it has voided the manufacturers' NOCSAE certification for the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets. We do not know why this determination was made and we wanted to address the issue as it relates to your participation in 3d Lacrosse, LLC events and programs.

As with all 3d events and programs, all participants sign a waiver confirming that they are fully aware of and appreciate the risks associated with participation in lacrosse programming and/or events (please see below regarding Some Risks of Playing Lacrosse.) To that end, we are notifying all participants that, by participating in our events or programs, you acknowledge that you are aware of the NOCSAE announcement regarding the voiding of certification of the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets and that, if you (your son or daughter) chooses to participate in our events or programs while wearing either of these specified models, that your (their) participation is voluntary and that you knowingly assume all risks inherent in their participation.

This notice informs you of the assumption of risk and, by freely and voluntarily participating in our event, you confirm that you are giving up substantial Rights, including your right to sue, and providing 3d Lacrosse, LLC an unconditional release of all liability to the fullest extent allowed by the law.

Please see the following websites for information about how to handle replacement helmets and other details.

Inside Lacrosse

Lax Power

US Lacrosse

24 Seven Lax

Should you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to contact us at info@3dlacrosse.com or (303) 346-2888.

We look forward to seeing you on the field!

Sincerely,

3d Lacrosse

SOME RISKS OF PLAYING LACROSSE
Lacrosse is a rough body contact sport. Seven injuries, including face, head and neck injuries, can and do occur while playing. Accidents happen. People get hurt. When you play violently and illegally, more people get hurt. Many of these injuries could cripple you or your opponent severely. You could live the rest of your life in a wheelchair or worse. These injuries may include not being able to move your legs (paraplegia), not being able to move your whole body from the neck down (quadriplegia) and death. There are rules and equipment to reduce these risks, but they cannot prevent them. Only you can make the real difference. To even begin to reduce your risk of serious injury, the proper equipment must be worn and worn correctly. You must also read the rules, understand them fully and obey them at all times. If you are not sure what they mean, ask your coach to explain them to you. Playing "dirty" adds to the risk of serious injury. Obeying the rules may not be enough. There is no way to protect yourself fully from all injuries. Nothing can protect you from another player's lack of judgment or accidents. You accept these risks when you walk onto the field.

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Is STX the only helmet in the market with certification outside of the older Cascades which are still eligible?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
For 3d (and anyone else doing something similar to this) to issue this statement and allow people to sign a waiver is reckless and negligent on their part. No matter your opinion on how safe the R really is, and how this NOCSAE issue is just an administrative problem that will be quickly fixed, 3d is setting itself up for a lawsuit by allowing people to play with defective, decertified equipment.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here is what one of the largest club and events chain sent out last night, and would be curious how other clubs or events chains are communicating:

Dear 3d Customers,

As you may be aware, the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE) recently announced that it has voided the manufacturers' NOCSAE certification for the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets. We do not know why this determination was made and we wanted to address the issue as it relates to your participation in 3d Lacrosse, LLC events and programs.

As with all 3d events and programs, all participants sign a waiver confirming that they are fully aware of and appreciate the risks associated with participation in lacrosse programming and/or events (please see below regarding Some Risks of Playing Lacrosse.) To that end, we are notifying all participants that, by participating in our events or programs, you acknowledge that you are aware of the NOCSAE announcement regarding the voiding of certification of the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets and that, if you (your son or daughter) chooses to participate in our events or programs while wearing either of these specified models, that your (their) participation is voluntary and that you knowingly assume all risks inherent in their participation.

This notice informs you of the assumption of risk and, by freely and voluntarily participating in our event, you confirm that you are giving up substantial Rights, including your right to sue, and providing 3d Lacrosse, LLC an unconditional release of all liability to the fullest extent allowed by the law.

Please see the following websites for information about how to handle replacement helmets and other details.

Inside Lacrosse

Lax Power

US Lacrosse

24 Seven Lax

Should you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to contact us at info@3dlacrosse.com or (303) 346-2888.

We look forward to seeing you on the field!

Sincerely,

3d Lacrosse

SOME RISKS OF PLAYING LACROSSE
Lacrosse is a rough body contact sport. Seven injuries, including face, head and neck injuries, can and do occur while playing. Accidents happen. People get hurt. When you play violently and illegally, more people get hurt. Many of these injuries could cripple you or your opponent severely. You could live the rest of your life in a wheelchair or worse. These injuries may include not being able to move your legs (paraplegia), not being able to move your whole body from the neck down (quadriplegia) and death. There are rules and equipment to reduce these risks, but they cannot prevent them. Only you can make the real difference. To even begin to reduce your risk of serious injury, the proper equipment must be worn and worn correctly. You must also read the rules, understand them fully and obey them at all times. If you are not sure what they mean, ask your coach to explain them to you. Playing "dirty" adds to the risk of serious injury. Obeying the rules may not be enough. There is no way to protect yourself fully from all injuries. Nothing can protect you from another player's lack of judgment or accidents. You accept these risks when you walk onto the field.


Truth is nobody asks for helmet certification when you go to youth tournaments. Middle/High school "yes" you have to have a conforming helemt. However, I have seen boys with older brothers play PAL and other youth tournaments using hand me down helmets that are 10 years old and nobody stops them. If people want to really get serious about head injuries a good start would be insisiting that ALL helmets are certified as compliant, not just the Cascase and Warrior models currently in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Well, queue the snarky comments as I did eat it and bought STX helmets for three kids today. I truly feel misled by Cascade and frankly find what Lacrosse Unlimited as a mouthpiece for hearsays about this all being a little paperwork problem from Cascade's leader just leaves me thinking this remedy coming any moment now is just a figment of Cascade's imagination. Any company worth it's salt would have offered material rebates and it only makes matters look worse and Cascade's story smell more to say they won't / can't ship any CPX models. The only thing I believe now is the opposite of everything Cascade has to say and the CPX is next on the banned list. Over and out...


Did you buy the STX Stallion? Looks really great from a safety perspective. Knock will be that it is too heavy I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.


At a tournament in Wellington FL this weekend players were told they could not play with the Cascade R helmet. They all used old helmets. One kid got hit in the head with a shot and the helmet shattered. Not sure of the make or model. Kid was air lifted to local hospital. Law suits coming. NOCSAE included.
And while we all wait for clarity on this serious matter, what exactly is NOCSAE, Cascade & Warrior doing for the public?

Either recall the product, or re-certify and make some statement that explains things clearly. This is total BS!


That is horrific, and as I have written over and over it seems this sport is only comfortable with its head in the sand. The 2013 Purdue research study is not something lacrosse dads need to be diligent to find on PubMed, but 24sevenlax.com finds it a week or two ago after this mess is public. My worst fear is a kid would have to be seriously injured or worse for ANY PROPER ATTENTION AND URGENCY to arrive, and sadly...

I pray for this kid and his family that he will be ok. Horrible news and every parents' worst nightmare.


Oh my God. So this one instance means what? All helmets are unsafe? Your completely overreacting because there is a point of view different than yours. I saw a horrible tragedy in football causing a death from helmet failure. Guess what. The exact same helmets are still being used now!! Where's your prayers and outrage? Us Dads do plenty of research and care for our kids as much as you do yours and your comments otherwise are offensive. Most of us however don't believe everything we read because our govt has conditioned us to be skeptical and we see every day all the lies we are told for others gain. NOCSAE certified the helmets for a year and a half and your anger should be pointed at them not the ones questioning this issue.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.


At a tournament in Wellington FL this weekend players were told they could not play with the Cascade R helmet. They all used old helmets. One kid got hit in the head with a shot and the helmet shattered. Not sure of the make or model. Kid was air lifted to local hospital. Law suits coming. NOCSAE included.
And while we all wait for clarity on this serious matter, what exactly is NOCSAE, Cascade & Warrior doing for the public?

Either recall the product, or re-certify and make some statement that explains things clearly. This is total BS!


That is horrific, and as I have written over and over it seems this sport is only comfortable with its head in the sand. The 2013 Purdue research study is not something lacrosse dads need to be diligent to find on PubMed, but 24sevenlax.com finds it a week or two ago after this mess is public. My worst fear is a kid would have to be seriously injured or worse for ANY PROPER ATTENTION AND URGENCY to arrive, and sadly...

I pray for this kid and his family that he will be ok. Horrible news and every parents' worst nightmare.


Oh my God. So this one instance means what? All helmets are unsafe? Your completely overreacting because there is a point of view different than yours. I saw a horrible tragedy in football causing a death from helmet failure. Guess what. The exact same helmets are still being used now!! Where's your prayers and outrage? Us Dads do plenty of research and care for our kids as much as you do yours and your comments otherwise are offensive. Most of us however don't believe everything we read because our govt has conditioned us to be skeptical and we see every day all the lies we are told for others gain. NOCSAE certified the helmets for a year and a half and your anger should be pointed at them not the ones questioning this issue.


Okay so the helmets only have a certification of less than 2 years. Whoever checks a helmets re-certs. I know the football pee wee leagues do. Never seen it in lax. But seriously why would you put an older helmet on. (unless it is was only a year or so old, we all know those kids that have a few helmets)

Not to far off from HS ball starting tick tock your on the clock.

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In all my years of playing sports (I am 47) I played hockey as a goalie with those cheesy plastic masks, football helmets had padding lighter then a blanket, lax Bacharach helmet baseball too. Most serious head injury I had came at the hands of some bulletproof snow while at hunter mtn. I just don't see how these two helmets could not be safer then what I wore. wth are people freakin about? Someone pointed it out a few pages back these head injuries are not going to be stopped because a helmet it's the hits that snap your head and jar your brain. Call me grandpa or whatever you fags want to call me but I say let them play. And maybe I'd the refs did the job of policing the game properly head injuries wouldn't be so great. But then again somehow when I played we didn't have so many injuries and personally we played dirtier then the game is played today.

Here's food for thought: how the [lacrosse] are the cheap chest protectors able to pass the noscae test or they don't bother testing that?

I agree w the poster above this is one instance and don't you think that kid would of been better off w an R on his head?

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STX stallion is noticably heavier than the R.

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Let's be clear here. Cascade was acquired by Bauer. This is not the company that Lacrosse has known & loved for the past 28 years. This is a publicly traded corporation who's only concerns are to their shareholders.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
In all my years of playing sports (I am 47) I played hockey as a goalie with those cheesy plastic masks, football helmets had padding lighter then a blanket, lax Bacharach helmet baseball too. Most serious head injury I had came at the hands of some bulletproof snow while at hunter mtn. I just don't see how these two helmets could not be safer then what I wore. wth are people freakin about? Someone pointed it out a few pages back these head injuries are not going to be stopped because a helmet it's the hits that snap your head and jar your brain. Call me grandpa or whatever you fags want to call me but I say let them play. And maybe I'd the refs did the job of policing the game properly head injuries wouldn't be so great. But then again somehow when I played we didn't have so many injuries and personally we played dirtier then the game is played today.

Here's food for thought: how the [lacrosse] are the cheap chest protectors able to pass the noscae test or they don't bother testing that?

I agree w the poster above this is one instance and don't you think that kid would of been better off w an R on his head?


Well said my friend. Well said.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
STX stallion is noticably heavier than the R.


Can someone with access to helmets please grab a scale and let us know the real weights?


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
In all my years of playing sports (I am 47) I played hockey as a goalie with those cheesy plastic masks, football helmets had padding lighter then a blanket, lax Bacharach helmet baseball too. Most serious head injury I had came at the hands of some bulletproof snow while at hunter mtn. I just don't see how these two helmets could not be safer then what I wore. wth are people freakin about? Someone pointed it out a few pages back these head injuries are not going to be stopped because a helmet it's the hits that snap your head and jar your brain. Call me grandpa or whatever you fags want to call me but I say let them play. And maybe I'd the refs did the job of policing the game properly head injuries wouldn't be so great. But then again somehow when I played we didn't have so many injuries and personally we played dirtier then the game is played today.

Here's food for thought: how the [lacrosse] are the cheap chest protectors able to pass the noscae test or they don't bother testing that?

I agree w the poster above this is one instance and don't you think that kid would of been better off w an R on his head?


The kid would have been MUCH better off with an R on his head. And that's exactly my point. NOCSAE has screwed this up, and if any law suits are forthcoming, NOCSAE should be held accountable!

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Re: Cascade R helmets not certified
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I agree with your point 100%. Well said my friend.

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Here's food for thought. Please if you have either one of the helmets in question I would just wait a little longer. I've been through this with motorcycle helmets.

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Finally!!

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The biggest problem here is that Cascade was marketing and selling this very expensive helmet as NOCSAE certified and it is not. This is the defect and the legal liability problem.
People who bought this helmet thought they were getting something that they were not. Coaches told parents to upgrade their youth helmets to the R because it was the best protection on the market. Everyone thought it was a better design and the latest technology in safety. Doesn't matter what the reality is about head injuries or old helmets or how safe it really is.

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how about the concussions that occurred while wearing one of these helmets?

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What irks me about the situation is that Cascade sold a bill of goods tha it could not deliver on. After STX published its results, NOCSAE did its own testing and found the helmets did not pass the certification standards. Cascade couldn't provide NOCSAE with the required test data (I don't know if they didn't run all the tests or whether they lost the results) so NOCSAE pulled their cert. That worked as it should and I have no problem with that.

Now, however, Cascade is shipping NOTHING. Not the CPR-X, not the Pro7. Nothing. Its going to be several weeks before they resume shipping, if they do. To me (and I believe to NOCSAE) this raises a big red flag that other helmets in the Cascade product line don't pass muster either. Maybe we'll know something by the end of the year. Or maybe not. I predict that there is going to be a big scramble for certified helmets pretty soon. I hope Cascade gets their certification straightened out because the mess that will result if they don't could be awfully problematic.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Finally!!


Finally what?

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Is there a tangible finish line or a known date when Cascade will next communicate? A few days in the following days are descriptions, and those descriptions are now over a week old.

Motorcycle helmets are not NOCSAE but are under other federal regulatory, so those two processes are not alike enough to count on being the same.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What irks me about the situation is that Cascade sold a bill of goods tha it could not deliver on. After STX published its results, NOCSAE did its own testing and found the helmets did not pass the certification standards. Cascade couldn't provide NOCSAE with the required test data (I don't know if they didn't run all the tests or whether they lost the results) so NOCSAE pulled their cert. That worked as it should and I have no problem with that.

Now, however, Cascade is shipping NOTHING. Not the CPR-X, not the Pro7. Nothing. Its going to be several weeks before they resume shipping, if they do. To me (and I believe to NOCSAE) this raises a big red flag that other helmets in the Cascade product line don't pass muster either. Maybe we'll know something by the end of the year. Or maybe not. I predict that there is going to be a big scramble for certified helmets pretty soon. I hope Cascade gets their certification straightened out because the mess that will result if they don't could be awfully problematic.


I tend to agree with you...They would be selling CPX-Rs like hotcakes because some people just need a conforming helmet and will buy it and then try to get a refund later on their R. The paramount issue is safety but now you have the secondary issue of impacting a kid's ability to participate in certain events. Sure you may say the R is safer than what you wore 20 years ago and therefore it is ok for your kid to continue to wear it. However, it is not just up to you as a parent, because we are now hearing about tournaments and showcases refusing to allow kids to play if they use one of these helmets. Do you want to spend $$$ flying to some showcase only to find out your kid can't play with an R? And spring lax will be here before you know it with all the schools afraid of liability and refusing participation to all those nonconforming helmet users. If you cannot now purchase a CPX-R either then what happens? ANSWER: STX's evil plan plays out and people flock to the Stallion if it turns out to be the only top quality helmet that is both conforming AND available for purchase. On some level such an outcome would make me ill....but it could happen.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
What irks me about the situation is that Cascade sold a bill of goods tha it could not deliver on. After STX published its results, NOCSAE did its own testing and found the helmets did not pass the certification standards. Cascade couldn't provide NOCSAE with the required test data (I don't know if they didn't run all the tests or whether they lost the results) so NOCSAE pulled their cert. That worked as it should and I have no problem with that.

Now, however, Cascade is shipping NOTHING. Not the CPR-X, not the Pro7. Nothing. Its going to be several weeks before they resume shipping, if they do. To me (and I believe to NOCSAE) this raises a big red flag that other helmets in the Cascade product line don't pass muster either. Maybe we'll know something by the end of the year. Or maybe not. I predict that there is going to be a big scramble for certified helmets pretty soon. I hope Cascade gets their certification straightened out because the mess that will result if they don't could be awfully problematic.


When I corresponded w mike Oliver from noscae asking about the CPX-r he said the investigation into their other helmets is ongoing and further secrets may come. If that ever happens with other helmets it is going to be a cluster f

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