BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Cascade R helmets not certified

Anyone actually done this? ^^ And did they give you low-ball used "blue book" or the original retail? Thanks much!

yes. $250 gift card that i will use to buy a new helmet once everything has settled down.

Now given this, how in good conscience could Cascade be feeding the retail channel with some story about how this is all linked to the paperwork or the instruction manual which was not updated from the CPX to the R? Did that NOCSAE guy speaking sound like this was no big deal and is going to be straightened out soon? No. In a word he said at some fitted ranges taking impact wearing this helmet will result in fractured skull which would be prevented if the helmet was conforming to the certification standards.

It's over. Bye bye Cascade.

Bacharach and Rasin....where are you?! LOL

Did Brine cancel their day tomorrow due to the helmet issue? We all know they played in bad weather last year?

There's no "and" in Bacharach Rasin.
And "where are they"? They are gone! Out of business because even though we remember their helmet with the shoe lace tie in the back with warm fuzzy thoughts...that's because we all sustained many head shots...we can't help but also remember how crappy their helmet was. I still have mine and when my son looks at it he just laughs. Really though for those who are buying into this nonsense about the Cascade R being unsafe I ask you to find someone with the only helmet offered to us in the 70s and 80s, the Bacharach Rasin and see if you still feel today's Cascade R is unsafe. It's all bull shite.

Here's an interesting question. If the R has suddenly been decertified and deemed unsafe, what is the rate of injuries and in-field failures over the past year and a half it's been in use? What's the same rate for certified helmets? Guaranteed there's no difference. Proof the seal is worthless.
The NOCSAE seal and nonsense that goes with it is NOT a good thing. It's BS. As proven by this mess.

There's only one turf fuel at Mitchell. The opposite fields are usually in poor shape with no rain. With 150+ kids coming out from areas further than Long Island don't you think it would be wise to be safe and cancel ? I forgot you lax dads are also weathermen and groundskeepers too .

At a tournament in Wellington FL this weekend players were told they could not play with the Cascade R helmet. They all used old helmets. One kid got hit in the head with a shot and the helmet shattered. Not sure of the make or model. Kid was air lifted to local hospital. Law suits coming. NOCSAE included.
And while we all wait for clarity on this serious matter, what exactly is NOCSAE, Cascade & Warrior doing for the public?

Either recall the product, or re-certify and make some statement that explains things clearly. This is total BS!

There's no "and" in Bacharach Rasin.
And "where are they"? They are gone! Out of business because even though we remember their helmet with the shoe lace tie in the back with warm fuzzy thoughts...that's because we all sustained many head shots...we can't help but also remember how crappy their helmet was. I still have mine and when my son looks at it he just laughs. Really though for those who are buying into this nonsense about the Cascade R being unsafe I ask you to find someone with the only helmet offered to us in the 70s and 80s, the Bacharach Rasin and see if you still feel today's Cascade R is unsafe. It's all bull shite.

Here is what one of the largest club and events chain sent out last night, and would be curious how other clubs or events chains are communicating:

Dear 3d Customers,

As you may be aware, the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE) recently announced that it has voided the manufacturers' NOCSAE certification for the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets. We do not know why this determination was made and we wanted to address the issue as it relates to your participation in 3d Lacrosse, LLC events and programs.

As with all 3d events and programs, all participants sign a waiver confirming that they are fully aware of and appreciate the risks associated with participation in lacrosse programming and/or events (please see below regarding Some Risks of Playing Lacrosse.) To that end, we are notifying all participants that, by participating in our events or programs, you acknowledge that you are aware of the NOCSAE announcement regarding the voiding of certification of the Cascade Model R and Warrior Regulator lacrosse helmets and that, if you (your son or daughter) chooses to participate in our events or programs while wearing either of these specified models, that your (their) participation is voluntary and that you knowingly assume all risks inherent in their participation.

This notice informs you of the assumption of risk and, by freely and voluntarily participating in our event, you confirm that you are giving up substantial Rights, including your right to sue, and providing 3d Lacrosse, LLC an unconditional release of all liability to the fullest extent allowed by the law.

Please see the following websites for information about how to handle replacement helmets and other details.

Inside Lacrosse

Lax Power

US Lacrosse

24 Seven Lax

Should you have any questions or comments, please do not hesitate to contact us at info@3dlacrosse.com or (303) 346-2888.

We look forward to seeing you on the field!

Sincerely,

3d Lacrosse

SOME RISKS OF PLAYING LACROSSE
Lacrosse is a rough body contact sport. Seven injuries, including face, head and neck injuries, can and do occur while playing. Accidents happen. People get hurt. When you play violently and illegally, more people get hurt. Many of these injuries could cripple you or your opponent severely. You could live the rest of your life in a wheelchair or worse. These injuries may include not being able to move your legs (paraplegia), not being able to move your whole body from the neck down (quadriplegia) and death. There are rules and equipment to reduce these risks, but they cannot prevent them. Only you can make the real difference. To even begin to reduce your risk of serious injury, the proper equipment must be worn and worn correctly. You must also read the rules, understand them fully and obey them at all times. If you are not sure what they mean, ask your coach to explain them to you. Playing "dirty" adds to the risk of serious injury. Obeying the rules may not be enough. There is no way to protect yourself fully from all injuries. Nothing can protect you from another player's lack of judgment or accidents. You accept these risks when you walk onto the field.

For 3d (and anyone else doing something similar to this) to issue this statement and allow people to sign a waiver is reckless and negligent on their part. No matter your opinion on how safe the R really is, and how this NOCSAE issue is just an administrative problem that will be quickly fixed, 3d is setting itself up for a lawsuit by allowing people to play with defective, decertified equipment.

Well, queue the snarky comments as I did eat it and bought STX helmets for three kids today. I truly feel misled by Cascade and frankly find what Lacrosse Unlimited as a mouthpiece for hearsays about this all being a little paperwork problem from Cascade's leader just leaves me thinking this remedy coming any moment now is just a figment of Cascade's imagination. Any company worth it's salt would have offered material rebates and it only makes matters look worse and Cascade's story smell more to say they won't / can't ship any CPX models. The only thing I believe now is the opposite of everything Cascade has to say and the CPX is next on the banned list. Over and out...

That is horrific, and as I have written over and over it seems this sport is only comfortable with its head in the sand. The 2013 Purdue research study is not something lacrosse dads need to be diligent to find on PubMed, but 24sevenlax.com finds it a week or two ago after this mess is public. My worst fear is a kid would have to be seriously injured or worse for ANY PROPER ATTENTION AND URGENCY to arrive, and sadly...

I pray for this kid and his family that he will be ok. Horrible news and every parents' worst nightmare.

Oh my God. So this one instance means what? All helmets are unsafe? Your completely overreacting because there is a point of view different than yours. I saw a horrible tragedy in football causing a death from helmet failure. Guess what. The exact same helmets are still being used now!! Where's your prayers and outrage? Us Dads do plenty of research and care for our kids as much as you do yours and your comments otherwise are offensive. Most of us however don't believe everything we read because our govt has conditioned us to be skeptical and we see every day all the lies we are told for others gain. NOCSAE certified the helmets for a year and a half and your anger should be pointed at them not the ones questioning this issue.

In all my years of playing sports (I am 47) I played hockey as a goalie with those cheesy plastic masks, football helmets had padding lighter then a blanket, lax Bacharach helmet baseball too. Most serious head injury I had came at the hands of some bulletproof snow while at hunter mtn. I just don't see how these two helmets could not be safer then what I wore. wth are people freakin about? Someone pointed it out a few pages back these head injuries are not going to be stopped because a helmet it's the hits that snap your head and jar your brain. Call me grandpa or whatever you fags want to call me but I say let them play. And maybe I'd the refs did the job of policing the game properly head injuries wouldn't be so great. But then again somehow when I played we didn't have so many injuries and personally we played dirtier then the game is played today.

Here's food for thought: how the [lacrosse] are the cheap chest protectors able to pass the noscae test or they don't bother testing that?

I agree w the poster above this is one instance and don't you think that kid would of been better off w an R on his head?

STX stallion is noticably heavier than the R.

In all my years of playing sports (I am 47) I played hockey as a goalie with those cheesy plastic masks, football helmets had padding lighter then a blanket, lax Bacharach helmet baseball too. Most serious head injury I had came at the hands of some bulletproof snow while at hunter mtn. I just don't see how these two helmets could not be safer then what I wore. wth are people freakin about? Someone pointed it out a few pages back these head injuries are not going to be stopped because a helmet it's the hits that snap your head and jar your brain. Call me grandpa or whatever you fags want to call me but I say let them play. And maybe I'd the refs did the job of policing the game properly head injuries wouldn't be so great. But then again somehow when I played we didn't have so many injuries and personally we played dirtier then the game is played today.

Here's food for thought: how the [lacrosse] are the cheap chest protectors able to pass the noscae test or they don't bother testing that?

I agree w the poster above this is one instance and don't you think that kid would of been better off w an R on his head?

Finally!!

What irks me about the situation is that Cascade sold a bill of goods tha it could not deliver on. After STX published its results, NOCSAE did its own testing and found the helmets did not pass the certification standards. Cascade couldn't provide NOCSAE with the required test data (I don't know if they didn't run all the tests or whether they lost the results) so NOCSAE pulled their cert. That worked as it should and I have no problem with that.

Now, however, Cascade is shipping NOTHING. Not the CPR-X, not the Pro7. Nothing. Its going to be several weeks before they resume shipping, if they do. To me (and I believe to NOCSAE) this raises a big red flag that other helmets in the Cascade product line don't pass muster either. Maybe we'll know something by the end of the year. Or maybe not. I predict that there is going to be a big scramble for certified helmets pretty soon. I hope Cascade gets their certification straightened out because the mess that will result if they don't could be awfully problematic.

What irks me about the situation is that Cascade sold a bill of goods tha it could not deliver on. After STX published its results, NOCSAE did its own testing and found the helmets did not pass the certification standards. Cascade couldn't provide NOCSAE with the required test data (I don't know if they didn't run all the tests or whether they lost the results) so NOCSAE pulled their cert. That worked as it should and I have no problem with that.

Now, however, Cascade is shipping NOTHING. Not the CPR-X, not the Pro7. Nothing. Its going to be several weeks before they resume shipping, if they do. To me (and I believe to NOCSAE) this raises a big red flag that other helmets in the Cascade product line don't pass muster either. Maybe we'll know something by the end of the year. Or maybe not. I predict that there is going to be a big scramble for certified helmets pretty soon. I hope Cascade gets their certification straightened out because the mess that will result if they don't could be awfully problematic.