BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

Yes, but the CLA can help organize/pressure the Ontario Lacrosse Association, and other provincial lacrosse associations, to adhere to a strict guideline.

Not to mention Stan Cockerton has held positions on the OLA , is a NCAA & Canadian HOFer, and is currently an executive with the International Lacrosse Federation.

It's time to bring some uniformed regulation to our game. Especially as we see the growth of it both nationally and internationally.

And I think it has been proven many times that 14 yr olds are currently playing 2019 all over the place.

But I dont think that there are teams that are all 2000 birthdays. Yes do I believe that there are 2or 3 on some of the top Long Island teams but not the whole team. And I dont agree with that either

I totally disagree, my son is born in 2000 and is in 9th grade, I don't care how old other kids are, I want my son to play against 2018's and it does not matter if they were born late 1998 or anytime in 1999, if they are graduating high school in 2018 and or starting college in the fall of 2018 then that is my sons competition and that is who the college coaches are going to be comparing him too, not same age but same grade, stop crying about this point, it is never going to change - and it is NOT cheating

I was in total agreement until you said its not cheating !

It doesn't matter because colleges dont care , but it is cheating. How can you say it's not? You are keeping kid back to gain an advantage. That's definition of cheating

Once a cheat - ALWAYS a cheat....you are cheating yourself and especially your son.

I believe you are missing the point. We are seeing more and more 9th grade/2018 boys playing at the 8th grade 2019 level as a 2019 team. A fact that the Edge website clearly states they do. The difference between an old freshman and a young 8th grader can be significant and poses safety issues. My son plays for a team listed as an offending team (Laxachusetts) as a 2019. He is an 8th grader and I don't know of any of the boys that are playing down as suggested. They are all 8th graders. Now I know the Clams do play kids down. I know of younger 2019 light kids that play 2020 and they regularly have HS boys play down to get them more exposure.

Forget about what grade he is in , was he born in 2001 that is the question . Isnt that how youth hockey in New England does it . If the rules of youth hockey are strictly enforced then why is it different in lacrosse . I am sure that some of the boys play both sports .

Correct all are late 2000 (Sept cutoff) or 2001 kids. Should definitely have a system like hockey or pop Warner football for review. But in reality other than safety the only advantage is the club gets bragging rights that they won this tournament or that one. Any advantage for the almighty parental $. Unless the boy changes grade he will eventually have to play with the big boys. For my son it is the training at this age. He trains with 19s, 18s, and with HS boys team. Btw neither of my boys teams have ever had any any problem competing with and beating the Edge teams.

There are no American club teams that register their teams in divisions that are one year below their age level. There are a few parents who have decided to hold their sons back a year. The difference can not be over emphasized. Are you serious in arguing the point?

But these 2000 born kids are turning 15. One or two holdbacks fine- but all your players are 2000- meaning by the end of tournament season in August- many of your players are actually 15 yr olds and not 14, like true 2019 players that should be born in 2001... get it now? lol

The difference being the Edge Lacrosse has a simply stated program directive: "WE WILL PLAY AGAINST YOUNGER TEAMS"

You hit the nail right on the head. Edge Lacrosse gains an advantage by playing against younger teams. Why is there any debate on the issue? Bad for lacrosse and potentially dangerous to the kids.

seriously? Remove your head from the sand. I saw at least 4 "American Club" teams with all 2000s playing 2019 this fall. A "few parents"....give me a break.

Name the program.
Show me the proof.

"Edge Lacrosse tears up Fall ball"

would be embarrassed if I found out my sons team played their entire season against teams that were younger than our kids. I would consider it a waste of time playing kids younger than our own age, it certainly doesn't make them better, it gives them a false sense of their abilities. This is what's wrong with youth lacrosse.

http://instagram.com/p/vfSq20ktyF/?modal=true

So how to organize these thoughts and get them officially put in front of US Lacrosse. Is there a procedure for new petitions?

I don't think you have a true grasp of what Edge is doing. They aren't travelling down to these tournaments to get better or to test themselves. That's what box lacrosse is for, where the norm is for the best players to age up. Any false sense of abilities gets quickly sorted out once you are in junior playing 20 year olds. Your worth as a player in Canada is decided first and foremost by the ability and toughness you show in box. These recruiting tournaments are strictly business. They are coming down to get scholarships and it's working because the college coaches do not care one bit. In fact, they come up to Canadians and actively instigate reclassifying. While I wholeheartedly agree that the practice of dropping a team down is wrong and should be eliminated, the same should be done for the practice of holding kids back at kindergarten and grade 8. Edge didn't open the door, they just kicked it wide open. If you have even one relassified kid on your club team, unfortunately you have no right to complain about Edge. Either there are rules or there isn't and right now there isn't. The only way to stop it is for people to demand US lacrosse adopt a hard age policy in line with box lacrosse in Canada or youth hockey/soccer. It's actually amazing that there isn't to be honest. Until then, if Crabs, Dukes, etc., keep relassifying, expect Edge to keep doing it too.

This is the issue. Contacting US Lacrosse on an individual level feels good (I encourage anyone so inclined to do so as I have), but I am sure it makes no difference.

An organized effort might make a difference (particularly with the growing helmet fiasco). US Lacrosse is a very weak organization that so far as I can tell is captive to the clubs. That being said, US Lacrosse is now issuing cards to player members with their membership number and birth date, so the beginning of an infrastructure seems to be place.

Realize that we are up against the clubs and club owners who like the present system just fine. The clubs advocated for the current grade based non-system and they "own it". The grade based teams makes putting teams together administratively easier and the opaqueness of grade based teams (without age bands) gives the club owners maximum flexibility to "game" the system (which they absolutely do).

I don't think you have a true grasp of what Edge is doing. They aren't travelling down to these tournaments to get better or to test themselves. That's what box lacrosse is for, where the norm is for the best players to age up. Any false sense of abilities gets quickly sorted out once you are in junior playing 20 year olds. Your worth as a player in Canada is decided first and foremost by the ability and toughness you show in box. These recruiting tournaments are strictly business. They are coming down to get scholarships and it's working because the college coaches do not care one bit. In fact, they come up to Canadians and actively instigate reclassifying. While I wholeheartedly agree that the practice of dropping a team down is wrong and should be eliminated, the same should be done for the practice of holding kids back at kindergarten and grade 8. Edge didn't open the door, they just kicked it wide open. If you have even one relassified kid on your club team, unfortunately you have no right to complain about Edge. Either there are rules or there isn't and right now there isn't. The only way to stop it is for people to demand US lacrosse adopt a hard age policy in line with box lacrosse in Canada or youth hockey/soccer. It's actually amazing that there isn't to be honest. Until then, if Crabs, Dukes, etc., keep relassifying, expect Edge to keep doing it too. [/quote]

Could not agree more with the sentiments expressed above. At present, there are effectively no rules. The US clubs are only upset at Edge because Edge "out gamed" them. US Lacrosse is unhappily the answer here. Any thoughts as to how to bring organized and concerted pressure on US Lacrosse? Although a completely different area, watch the helmet issue. I am attaching a link to a post put out by US Lacrosse to refs relating to how noncomplying helmets are to be handled.

https://www.[lacrosse]/Group...t%20-%20Officials%20Memo%20-%20Final.pdf

Under the caption of "Why is this important" is this lead sentence. "The safety of players is the most important thing and is everyone's responsibility in the game." If that is the position (and it certainly should be), then US Lacrosse needs to be actively be pushing for age based restrictions.

Why would a tournament director let an entire team play down a grade? Who (other than Edge) would go to a tournament that did again?

There is a major difference between a parent deciding their son is too small to or is having issues keeping up in school and holding them back a year and Edge Lacrosse which just plays entire teams down an age group. You really don't see the difference? So, its okay if a travel team plays down two years? Three? My 4th grader would look great playing against 2nd graders.

I would like to know what "American Club" teams are playing teams down an age division. Please share with the board the program, the grad year and the tournament. Thank you.

I don't see the difference as it applies to high-level club lacrosse. Leaving it up to parents discretion is what has led to this debacle in the first place. I don't care if a kid has to be held back for academic reasons, that makes sense. Why that child should gain an athletic benefit for poor academic performance doesn't. Nor does letting parents decide if there child is too small for their age and holding them back. If your child is so small that you seriously fear he can't play within his own age group, I think you have 3 choices. You can either understand the child will always be small and should learn to use it to his advantage, you can play the child down to the appropriate level of play (within age, ie. from AA to A), or you can pick a more appropriate sport. Otherwise, it's entirely possible that Edge just happens to be a team full of parents who thought their kids were too small for 2018 or need an extra year of schooling. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened isn't? If it's good for one it's good for all. Sliding scales don't work and parental discretion absolutely does not work. You need hard rules enforced by US lacrosse using age not grade. It's the only way to close loop holes and keep it fair. Or don't and stop bitching about Edge. But hey, at least they only reclassified once. How many 2019's are getting ready for their driving tests next year? Now that's scary

What US based lacrosse program is registering entire teams down an age group?

What exactly led to Edge Lacrosse basing their club's program on playing against younger kids in tournaments? I'm not following your logic.

None that I know of..But plenty have grade based teams with kids that have been held back a grade.

So, Mr. Canadian, what is the answer? Every lax program has to play down against younger competition? Only Edge?

Parental discretion doesn't work? So the response is lying about the kids age? You post a lot of BS. How would your team do against age appropriate competition?

From US Lacrosse website: 2015 Age Grouping Quick Reference Table


Birthdate Age Bracket


Born on or after 9/1/1999 U15
Born on or after 9/1/2001 U13
Born on or after 9/1/2003 U11
Born on or after 9/1/2005 U9

....So, to take this a step further and fill in for U14, U12, U10 & U8, we assume 9/1 is the cut-off date for each given year.

September 1 is also the academic cut-off date for "most" states (to correct a previous poster), so this is reasonable.

The way I see it, we all need to pressure not only US Lacrosse, but also our local town/county & state officials to set these standards.

We need to be vocal and enlist the support of coaches and parents.

It's been said before, if soccer/hockey, etc. can do it, than so can lacrosse.

Get involved, be persistent, make this happen.

Birth year based is the way to go. I just found this site, I'm in CO and every single sophomore who has committed in my state (that I am aware of) is age appropriate with the exception of one, and as some can guess he is the one with the dad who is a big lax name. IMHO he would be committed anyway. There are now several 2016s playing as 2017s, but they are currently juniors, and none have been picked up. At least one is academically motivated, but his GPA is extremely low (1.something) so I question the prudence of trying to attend any D1 school to play lacrosse if you cannot maintain even a D average, (heck I would not let my kid do it if he was under a B average) another year will not change that.

9/1/14-8/30/15 seems to be the norm in the majority of the states, and are also the US Lax recommended eligibility dates.

Make these the requirements, along with photo IDs. Have US Lax require IDs be checked prior to all games or the US Lax insurance coverage is void for that tourney.

This may be the only way to get tourney directors to adhere to age verification regulations.

It will also stop organizations from sliding kids around from other teams at the youth level to win. Bad situation in Vail a few years back when a team brought kids from other teams in for the U15 championship game, boys were literally on the sidelines switching out jerseys. The same organization got DQ'd at U17 for unrostered kids. Meanwhile, parents of kids who paid to be on the team were asking the opposing team to complain because their kids were on the bench after paying and traveling. Funny thing is that Vail is just for fun, not really a recruiting thing but cheaters gonna cheat, right? In that case the coach was a well-known guy and everyone was afraid to say anything.

I'm still waiting to read a post from one of the parents of the kid who got hurt at the fall 3D tournament. Their opinion should matter. They should raise some [lacrosse] and complain to the guys running the tournaments. They are the gate keepers.

Just read an email from Rob Panel about his new training company that "breeds fair play,and confidence"

Was it fair Rob that you were a holdback and pg and redshirt? Will you tell the kids to repeat grades like you did to get an advantage?

Hypocritical

Don't misjudge my response and not that it right for any kid to get injured but what if that kid was a reclass too. That team has several also. What about the kid who injured him ? Do you stop to think maybe he feels horrible ? Oh wait he's a Canadian who cheats. This site continues to be a soap opera.

I just wish people would pose viable solutions to this problem rather than vent about their feelings or stories they can tell.

Maybe then this site wouldn't be soap opera as you say.

Its not the Edge kids' fault, its the parents and more so the program admins. I don't know anything about the player who was injured, but does it really matter? Its the program practices that are in question and the tournament directors collecting fat checks who allow teams to register in whatever division they choose without proof. I agree with the person who posted it will take a serious injury followed by that tournament getting sued. Its the way of our world.

Answer? Age based bracketing with proof of age cards administered by US Lacrosse. I've already passed along my opinion to our town program director, but I'm not sure what that will do.

Gate Keepers????

Guess what Jamie is 100% on board with playing kids up, reclassifying, etc. He did it with his own kid.

Wow He must have been an old geezer by the time he graduated. Problem with lacrosse is that College is the pinnacle of this sport. And being older to a point that is never reached for college is easy with several years of staying back. If there was a paying pro lacrosse the players would be itching to go there early