BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

Not endorsing the holdback thing , but skinny at age kids usually aren't seen at elite level teams. That's just the way it is. Size does matter when it comes down to fielding a team of 20 kids. Face the reality if your kid is too small. Sorry but true.

Someone needs to tell that to some of the smaller Crush boys running cicles around our kids twice their size in the u15a bracket last weekend . Our team is from MD and they dominated us. Never underestimate a component based on size!

Edge are a bunch of thugs whose behavior is better suited to a hockey team. I wish tournament organizers in the US would tell them to stay home.

Well said

Hey that's my birthday, we must be twins!

They play tough because they are more exposed to box lacrosse. Nothing "thuggery" about that. If the refs don't call the fouls, then they must not be fouls. Personally, I like their toughness.
Stick skill wise they have finesse, on defense I will admit they lack composure. That doesn't mean they shouldn't get an invite.

Their a year older. Their website says 2019 Tryout, looking for 9th grade and exceptional 8th graders. They clearly define what reclassing means to them. Taking your PG year "now" and playing in your PG grad year...NOW! wth. Not making it up its on their site! Their not tough, their not, their a year older beating up on younger kids, real tough.

Just because the other team is big doesn't mean they have elite skills. So yes a smaller team can run circle around bigger kids. I did say elite teams in my post.

I see what you are saying. And I don't believe in stacking rosters. That's not right and it's dangerous.

US Lax....where are you?!! All it takes is some clear definitions. Put out requirements to tourney leaders, etc.

Picture ID with birth dates. Line the kids up before every game and then let them play.

The sport of Lacrosse is begging for this. If US Lax did this, the CLA would follow.

But the local directors an dclub leaders are for the mostpart fighting it, SCPAL voted down going to age limits instead of grade and having football like rosters.

The better skilled players will always trump size in lacrosse. And the tournament featured elite teams from MD and Canada. this can be seen at the youth and HS level.

Skill over size, that is true, however it places the kids at serious risk of injury. More so when the big kids get frustrated at losing. Teams who try to make up for lack of skill with brute force, and clueless parents who think "that's lacrosse" do a real disservice to the game and the rest of us have an obligation to call it out when we see it.

Have to agree here. Seen that happen plenty of times!

Agreed too. Particularly at ages when some kids are hitting puberty and some aren't.

Not rocket science. US Lacrosse requires Proof of Birth and establish software that allows tournaments to offer online registration and waivers that cross reference US Lacrosse database.

The Edge program and the 2019 LI Express Westchester kids injury should not really be part of the HOLDBACK conversation. The Edge 2019 team was made up of current 9th and 10th graders--not holdbacks....they are just outright cheating and putting kids at risk of serious injury.

If you are a current 9th or 10th grader you are NOT a 2019 grad year. Therefore, you should NOT be playing on a 2019 team. Nor, should the EDGE LACROSSE program be permitted to stack a roster of older kids and enter them in a 2019 division.

My son was 5' 95 lbs in 9th grade, graduated at 6'2 180 and became much more skilled than the early bloomers who relied only on size in 9th grade. I think this is going to separate the smart college coaches from the ones caught up in early recruiting frenzy. They tend to recruit early bloomers early partially because the whole process is so new they aren't used to evaluating the potential of 14 year olds because they had been used to evaluating 16 and 17 year olds. Size is an advantage to a point, I don't disagree, but sometimes it is overemphasized in 9th grade.

Understand the different dynamics of box lacrosse, leave them in the box.

Same mentality as the sideline coaching dads who shout "take him out" or "put him on his back" - sends the wrong message to the kids.

Would like to hear more from the poster who said they had a player's arm broken by an Edge 2019 player.

From the 2019 thread:

PLEASE READ from EDGE Lacrosse website:

Fall 2014 - Edge 2020 Team (2001/2002 Born/U13)

The 2020/U13 age will be a mixed age of the top 2001 and 2002 born players. This is due to early reclassification of our 2018 and 2019 teams as they enter and prepare for FRESHMEN and Rising Freshmen events. Reclassification is the process in which a player competes in their PG (Post graduate) age division as opposed to their natural 4 year grad year. This is due to US players starting school a year later or staying back a year prior to entering high school. This results in US born players to be a year older as we enter high school. With early recruitment becoming increasingly common among the top DI schools, it is important for our members to reclassify in grade 8/9 in order to compete against similar aged US counterparts. Reclassifying provides our members with the best opportunities to be recruited by the top DI programs in grade 9 and 10.

I'm glad [lacrosse]'s requires proof of birthdate in re the Edge teams.

geesh what is everyone thinking? lacrosse is a game that will be over after college. Get an education and graduate on time

I believe this might qualify as criminal if a player is injured. How can the guys running tournaments permit them to register knowing they are older kids?

This is the program policy??????????

Ban the EDGE LACROSSE from all US tournaments.

wondering if in Canadian educational system might be different. kids with 2001/2002 bdays if born Sept 1 2001 or later would be age appropriate for u13 and the correct age for 2020 in most US jurisdictions

1-1-01 to 8-31-01 is a pretty big gap though.

Let's take it easy on our neibors to the north. They are not the Soviets .

Why would the Edge program need to justify recruiting older kids for their teams if that was the norm i Canada?

there seems to be 2 different things here. If the players are still in 9th not 8th it could get interesting. if held back and in 8th nothing you can do about it.

as far as criminal not to sure about criminal but civil boundaries yes; if one of these 9th grade boys hurts another any waiver the hurt boy's family signed will become null and void. Since the prescribed predetermine level of play was not upheld.

it also seems as if the tournament was warned a head of time and put that warning in a few public forums. this could be very interesting as it rolls out.

Is there a rule on stick length? When my son's team played them at Cornell their shorty sticks looked unusually short....as in impossible to check short.

Edge Lacrosse simply bumps each team down one year in registration, just check their website:

Age Classification
2015/2016 - (1996/1997 Born)
2017 - (1998 Born)
2018 - (1999 Born)
2019 - (2000 Born) Reclassified team
2019 - (2001 Born) TRYOUT with 2020 team

They don't even attempt to hide the fact that they are cheating. This is NOT reclassification, this is a purposeful behavior to give their players an.....EDGE. If every team simply played a year down, they would dominate. But, there is a real consequence, that being injuries. The player who got hurt at the Md tournament by a 2019 Edge player is one example. If that kid was now paralyzed, what would the reaction be?

Maybe it is a Canadian thing. The APEX teams from Canada who played this past weekend had many kids who were in the grade a year older than the published division. 2019 grad years playing on the 2020 team - they openly discussed it on the field and saw nothing wrong with it. What they said on the field was easily validated as a few weekends before the same team played Hogan and self reported grad years of 2019. Their stick skills not too great so they tried to make up for it by brute force and physical play. It will take a life changing injury and lawsuit to make them think twice about not validating grades and ages in the youth divisions.

if playing HS rules yes. pretty ballzy to ask for a stick check. never heard of one in a youth game, but I guess this isn't youth anymore.

It is easy (as many have done) to dismiss the age differential that is now showing up due to non-age based teams as a relatively minor matter. After all, the argument goes, good players play up etc... the risk of injury also seems to get discounted as just a "risk of the game".

As the parent of a 6th grader playing on a AA 20/21 team at the Autumn Classic last weekend I saw the Apex 2020 team and it was very good with very, very big, and very physical players. Only by the luck of the brackets did my son's team not play Apex and for that I am thankful. Otherwise 6th graders would have been playing big 8th graders (who were all 4-6 inches taller and 20 to 30 pounds heavier). A player is going to get badly hurt. I am seriously considering pulling my son out of lacrosse, a sport he loves, and have him play soccer.

This is a big issue that is changing youth lacrosse as I write this and it is not going to go away.

Check out the team photos from Facebook

2019: http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/

2020: http://instagram.com/p/vgiMrlkt1k/

one year difference? I think not!

13 years old? Maybe the coach is a [lacrosse].

Wow a lot of those boys are bigger than the kids on my kid's 2017 team and we have some 6'2" 190 lb boys. Granted there are typically a few early bloomers but they look 15 or 16.

Other boards are beginning to cite the Age Verification board and this thread about Edge Lacrosse. I think everyone who understands what they are doing will be thoroughly appalled, it really is revolting and something should be done. I sent an email to the coach of my sons team asking him to not register in any tournaments the Edge is playing in.

Something needs to be done.

This is all about the MONEY!!!! The (men?) running these top teams are also running these tournaments! How come one of the biggest L.I. tournaments didn't even ask for waivers last year? So teams could play down or liability when a fifth grader gets paralyzed by a seventh grader on the same field! They are not playing for glory, but so that team can win and said team can make more MONEY!!! The new angle is these teams are fielding and entering multiple teams per grade level and combining kids from both teams to which ever team makes finals!!!
How come when these kids hit High School level and can not play down (because the recruiters are watching) these great TEAMS can't win a game!!!
For all the Teams playing at the right level and putting their kids in the best Colleges, we look forward to playing these teams in the future. This is not about the MONEY but the KIDS and the legacy of this great game.

It is about the money and the clubs and a completely ineffectual national organization, US Lacrosse, that has as its core mission precisely what it refuses to do, promote player safety. I would encourage concerned parents to contact US Lacrosse as I have done. I do not expect that any one complaint to US Lacrosse will do anything, but if enough people complain (and expose US Lacrosse for being completely ineffectual) then perhaps US Lacrosse will feel some pressure to do something. Anything at this point would be an improvement.

Money is the root - Stop paying US lacrosse. Stop the source of money and force them to listen.

3d does this with HS players, juniors play as 2017s claiming they are going to do a PG year then next tourney or even same tourney they are on a 2016 team. One kid played as a 2017 this summer then committed as a 2016 the following week. It is about winning so your club looks better.