BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums Greene Turtle Lacrosse

Holdbacks are within the rules for many leagues and tournaments, so constantly complaining about a team following the rules is ridiculous.

I agree with that also. If I am seeing correctly dont most grad. year tournaments/leagues also have a age range for the teams? Or do they say all ages? Also if its 2019 team they are 8th graders if they are hold back they are 1 year older which makes a 2 year age window. So if you have U15 its 8th and 9th graders so its a 2 year age window. I just see it as a shift of the 2 year age window.

The two year age brackets (u-15, u-13, u-11) were created years ago because most single year teams just didn't have enough players. The world has changed and every geography can now field a team of age appropriate kids.

Teams (like the names we all know) are in the business of lax to make money and so winning is important to their organization such that all the little kids want to play on a winner. When you add another carrot on the website that points out how many great schools your organization has placed its lax players, then parents are willing to flip the bill...

SO little johny wants to win with the cool helmet and his parents are happy to pay because little johny now has a shot at JHU...As time goes by, other organizations pop up all over because they see the money.

What is the business owner to do? He once had a great business but now he has competitive pressure. So, he figures out an advantage and starts promoting it.

the only way the clubs can perpetuate their continued winning and high placement at the JHUs, is to find the best possible players, but we all know however good our kid is, there are others that are also really good and not always are they going to stay on our team. The talent pool becomes dispersed across many teams.

So the smart guys at 3d, crabs and plenty of others (Yes LI people, it is starting to happen to you as well) use a trick they have seen work in other sports like basketball and football for years--and give it a cool name. No longer are you leaving your kid back (sounds like kid cant keep up) now you are re classing your kid (sounds much better, not so offensive even though it means the same thing).

What is the result? Well, having kids on a team that are a year older and stronger and faster is enough of an advantage to help you keep your kingdom for now because you are the only one doing it. Over time, other clubs catch on and say, wow, great idea, not only do we have a better chance to win, but we collect an extra years tuition at the same time. And because the kid is bigger and stronger and faster, he gets noticed in front of those recruiters so he can help me perpetuate the JHU pitch.

I give these guys credit for a pretty crafty sales pitch that aligns your interest with theirs and they make $ doing it.

That said, the payoff in lax does not justify this move from a parent's perspective. Sure, little johny gets to go to JHU and play on that field for for years, but there is no meaningful lax job waiting for him when he graduates.

In football or basketball, it is a risk worth taking. If your kid can make $5mm per year playing a game and you put him in a position to get noticed, good for you. For lax, the scholarship $ are really low and the people that use the re class are often the people that aren't even worried about school costs, they can already afford it...

SO it boils down to silly parents wanting to brag on little johny. sad really.

Note, none of this applies to the parent who left their kid back in kindergarden because he needed time. Only applies to the silver spoons who do it at the private schools in 8th grade. All of it applies to the club coaches who see you helping them perpetuate their business.

Ok lets try to get a real number on how many hold backs there really are. Can people please go one by one on each NPYLL team and give a number on how many hold backs they think are on the team. I am guessing it only 2 at the most and people like to inflate numbers to prove a point!

Top 2022 in the area has no playbacks

And who do you think the top 2022 in the area is?

A suggestion for those that are concerned about grade based teams (and I am).

Expressing concern anonymously on a website may feel good, but it is not going to solve the problem that the prior poster very well identified: large lacrosse clubs (predominitly in Maryland) manipulating the player age restriction rules for their own benefit at the cost of player safety. It is irresponsible, but the fact that it is irresponsible is not sufficient to change things. The Clubs (and parents of "hold backs") are not going to change unless they are forced to.

The real “goat” in this is US Lacrosse. This is an organization to which all of us are forced to belong and support through dues and whose mission is to promote the sport of lacrosse (and supposedly player safety). US Lacrosse is “leading from behind” on the critical issue of player safety and it really should (and if it is going to be a relevant organization, it needs) to take a strong, unambiguous position as to age based versus grade based teams. So far, US Lacrosse’s position is to tepidly support age based teams, but to hide behind the argument that “there is nothing it can do” as clubs move more to grade based teams. There is in fact a lot that US Lacrosse can do (if it wants to), including, for starters, taking a strong, unequivocal position in its magazine. By taking this position US Lacrosse would of course risk offending various interests, but that is the price to pay if US Lacrosse is in fact going to lead rather than to be impotent. It is more than ironic that US Lacrosse’s headquarters are located in Baltimore, Maryland.

In fairness to the Green Turtle Club this is really not a Green Turtle issue and emails relating to class based teams really do not belong in this forum. Happily BOTC has a forum dedicated to this topic. If you go to the BOTC Main Forum and then look for forum titled “Age Verification” you will find a very thoughtful on-going conversation. There are also links to US Lacrosse in that forum. I would encourage anyone interested to go to the Age Verification Forum and to also contact (as I did) US Lacrosse.

I hadn't posted on this thread yet, but the above poster's advice is good and I previously sent feedback to U.S. Lacrosse. Still, grade-based teams with holdbacks are safer than a 2-year age division.

I think the Arden Diamondback 2022 team seemed like the top 2022 team in Maryland this past Summer. Won the Summer GT Invitational but not going to the Fall Invitational. Not sure about other 2022 teams, but I'm sure other folks might know. Were either of the NPYLL U11A divisions this past Spring pure 2022's? Roughrider 2022's won HoCo 2022A division and they are a good team, but didn't seem to be at Arden's level.

I thought NPYLL teams and teams at Hogan tournaments had to be U11 age eligible this past Summer with no exceptions.

How do folks think the U13B division at the GT Fall Invitational looks? Not inviting chest-thumping or slamming other teams, but what teams have played well this year? I know GT and Crabs and Madlax 2021 teams are strong.

One must remember that Crabs didn't have a 2022 team last year, so we will see. Too bad Arden is not at the Fall GT.

Since most of this discussion focuses on 8th grade/2019, start there. Crabs have at least 7. No other team is close. And other than Crabs, this is not a big Baltimore issue. Ask the same question of Philly teams.

What about DC teams??

Here are the winners:

Division Champion Finalist
U11 A Rising Son's Lacrosse Fearless Lacrosse
U11 B FCA White South Central CHAOS
U13 A Rising Son's Lacrosse Admiral's Cup Lacrosse
U13 B Breakers Rough Riders 2020
U15 A Long Island Express Lehigh Valley Outlaws
U15 B Lehigh Valley Outlaws Cavalier Lacrosse

Looks like Rising Son's had a good day.

Wasn't 2019 91orange u13? So your bragging a top u15 split with a u13. Or FICA u15 played 91 u15. Help me understand

That is 2013 Winners ????

that is 2013 results

The Aloha website is still showing the 2013 results and does not have any scores up yet.

Aloha is slipping.

That is the info I am looking for I think Madlax might have one at 2019 but not 100% sure about that. What about the Hawks or those other teams. If there is only 1 or 2 on the other teams this whole thing about hold backs is even more silly. The numbers are not really there. Unless anyone out there wants to at least try and call out anyone but the Crabs and there 7 "HOLDBACKS"

No it is not silly. The Crabs will have the most as they have a strong presence in the private schools and always seem to draw good players. Other clubs will have a few here and there. If you dont think parents are taking notice you are sadly mistaken. There will be more as time goes by.
To me this is a youth issue about fairplay in youth sports like the poster above. Even if it is just 2-3 per team besides Crabs. Thats 20-30 % of starting lineup assuming they are starters which they will be be at these younger ages. So no it isnt silly and sure wont be silly when you play the Crabs.

Well are you going to your club coaches and telling them to not play the Crabs or any team with holdbacks on thier team? Are there any storys out here of people asking or making a fuss with there team for playing these evil clubs with all those holdbacks. If the Crabs had no one to play they would move those kids up to the next team or cut them I would say.

U15s played U15s. The two U13s played once and 91 won by 3 or 4.
FICA is a payroll tax and I do not believe they have a club team. Yet.

The Crabs travel up and down the East Coast and travel West to play, by demand. Best Lacrosse product available by far. Just look at how they become the topic of every thread on this and on every other forum. You guys are playing right into their hands.

Those results are incorrect! Breakers 2022 won the U11A Indian Summer tournament yesterday.

How many hold backs did they have ?

I agree the Crabs are the best of the best and I love that they are the best. Because when my son plays well or great when they play his stock goes way way up. Let them be the best and the kids who shine when they play them look 12times better. Its the a good thing.

Here are the correct results:

U11 A (2022) – Breakers 2022 over Rising Sons 2022
U11 B (2023) – Breakers 2023 over FCA 2023
U13 A (2020) – Stars & Stripes over Maryland Wild
U13 B (2021) – Rising Son's 2021 over Chaos (South Central Lime Green)
U15 A (2019) – Philadelphia Freedom over Breakers 2019
U15 B (2019) - Philadelphia Freedom (White) over API Select

weak teams weak tournament

Breakers 2019 should feel good about getting to the final. There was a whole 4 teams in their division. Way to go guys, you got 2nd place!!!!

Is that the same team that was 4 - 19 last year. Yikes

Was Greene Turtle in this tournament?? This is a GT Lax forum??

Is GT still playing lax? I know the wings are good.

U13a was won by Rising Sons 2020.

Rising Sons 2020 won 13A

You're correct. There were so few teams in the A division (3), that the teams played a few B teams and aloha mixed in the results.
U13A - Rising Sons 2020 over Chaos (south central royal blue)

You're correct. There were so few teams in the A division (3), that the teams played a few B teams and aloha mixed in the results.
U13A - Rising Sons 2020 over Chaos (south central royal blue) [/GARB!quote]

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GT invite tourney only on good match up in 2022 crabs hawks.
Breakers play nobody nor do the cannons. Will be hard to tell who the top 2022 team will be heading into the spring season. Where is Arden are they doing any fall tournaments? Did Breakers lose a lot of kids from 11u last year they had some 2021 kids on their team along with the Cannons. Hawks have some major pickups and first year for 2022 crabs. In 2 weeks maybe some answers

Rough riders won HoCo last year and will be tough. Club blue only lost 1 regular season game last year also so they will be tough (especially if the gp coach is coaching the team). Madlax also benefitted from the new grade based system and will be a lot stronger this year.

Club blue did not even make the playoffs of npyll last year and rough riders 2022 got beat by Arden in summer GT

Club Blue 2022 made the playoffs and lost in the 1st round to eventual champ Breakers. I would not look past them. Their coach is the head coach at Georgetown Prep, so they will have their act together.

Club blue played in the weaker red division of 11uA. They are not on the level of the top 2022 teams.

What's the story behind manhassett32 2022? Same level as 91, igloo, li express?