BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2014/Summer 2015

Please stop already. Every situation, every coach, every school is ALL different. If your son keeps his end of the early agreement, they school will...fact.

Serious question. Why can't D3 schools be on the same "verbal" timetable as D1 schools? It seems like players don't verbally commit to D3s until Senior year. Why not junior year or sophomore year. The fact that there is no athletic scholarship money should not impact the ability for D3 coaches and recruits to have a verbal agreement. Thoughts?

Most kids aren't going to agree to a D3 until D1 options are off the table.

Of course it does, what don't you see? Have you been through this? I have, early = better cash. Yes, you still need to get grades and SAT, but at least in my house, that is not an issue.

People, play the odds. How many kids had a coach screw them after a verbal? One guys knows one, another person said it happens all the time.

I have been around for years and never have seen this happen. If fact, coaches that have changed have honored previous player verbals.

I have seen where a kid screwed up legally, and one where SAT didn't get where needed to be, but other than that they are honored for year one. After that it is prove yourself.

ANyone who says different and believes it is simply wrong. The earlier the commit, the larger the $ is absolutely true.

Excellent educational opportunities in D3. Tremendous amount of academic and merit money available to good players with decent grades. Think 30-40% percent off a $55-60k bill. As long as he maintains minimal academic levels that money stays in place for ALL FOUR years! Even if he decides to give up lacrosse!

Holy Cross- 19 kids cut with coaching change. Many freshmen cut.

The NESCAC's are on a very close timeline with regard to recruiting as D1's

If there is a coaching change the new coach will not keep all of the former coaches verbals or even scholarship players. That's a fact and it's fair.

Holy Cross not a good example of coaches not honoring recruiting. They had 61 kids on the roster and cut 16. Cuts had to be made there. Avg D1 team size is 45. Morrissey was irresponsible with roster spots and recruiting. Probably why not there anymore.

I completely agree, that said, my son as a solid GPA and offers from 2 D1 programs, one top 5, the other top 20. We wanted him to see some other schools that were interesting to him for academics. He emailed coaches at the D3, and his HS coach called and could not get meetings with 2 of the 3 D3 programs he contacted, the coaches said they didn't waste time with sophomores. It surprised me that the coaches were that short-sighted, as my son based his final decision on academics and his future, and ended up verbaling to the lower ranked lacrosse program because it is a much better fit for his career plans. I think he was turned off by the coaches who refused to spend half an hour showing him athletic facilities (we made it clear we didn't expect them to spend time on a full tour). In the end his choice was a good one, and I think a better fit than the other schools, but we didn't know that until we visited them.

What are some of the D3 schools you are referring to?

Really? What NESCAC's have verbally committed to 2018 players? That is the current timeline with D1's

D3 schools aren't as aggressive recruiting wise because they wait to see what type of grades players have. They want proof that a player will satisfy the schools admissions criteria.

Your post is only partially correct: it does happen all the time, quietly and brutally, in lacrosse and in every other non-revenue sport. Athletic merit resets, coaching changes, non-revenue sport operating and other budget changes. Did you know there is one ACC lacrosse program that was not fully funded 6 years ago? Probably not, but here is a hint, they won NCAAs last year. The only sports where 4 year deals are sacred are men's football, then men's and women's basketball.

A coach promised your son a certain deal? FACT!!! ? Great. You don't think coaches can change their minds or maybe you are running too far with the assumptions you have? Every non-revenue coach has to re-shuffle scarce resources every year. The earlier the commit the bigger the year one dollars? Sure, I will give you that point but the point goes no further. Anyone telling you different is selling you something not true. Your son's deal for the first year is likely solid, but not certainly solid if it is a specific money promise today. Those promises get broken all the time for one reason: coaches need to win and to win off the heels of a challenge to their program or job means changes. It's the winning business, not remember what I promised a lacrosse Dad business. Try calling your son's D1 coach AFTER he is enrolled to engage some unhurried and folksy 20-30 minute phone calls you were humored with during recruiting. They won't happen. The winning business leaves no room for it. You might have been around for years, but you are obviously nowhere near the world of running a funded D1 program and coaching for your job every year. Like my cousin who WAS a D1 coach. Lot of these kids and their parents are in for some very rude reality in a few years. Daddy and club coach can't fix it for you, so beware at the gates if you can't handle it.

Non-disputable and valuable information...thanks!

Holy cross doesn't give $ for lax and they dont give for merit/GPA.

So, getting cut when you were paying full $60k is not the argument, a different issue all together.

The argument is $ for lax. All that I know have honored the one year commitment.

Absolutely false and creating worry that is unfounded for those early commits. Coaches are very clear that it is a one year deal, after that, prove it or lose it. We agree on that point.

But for you to tell these early commits that their one year deals are at risk is creating panic by them for no reason. It is sad that you feel the need to do so, but hey, on this board you can spew whatever you want...

Early commits get those bigger year one dollars because the coaches want the kid. Once the kid shows up and he is not everything they hoped for, they reshuffle the deck. If your kid is everything they hoped for, he can even get more...

Stop the lying to these people and tell the truth, pretty please.

Nescac recruits in 11 grade. Been to three prospect days this fall-

williams, amherst...

just remember to bring your checkbook, no lax $ and no merit money no matter the GPA.

Everything is need based. so that means for most lax parents $60+k per year.

False? Creating panic for no reason? Look, D1 non-revenue coaches are now making more money outside the universities than from them. Camps, prospect days, in some instances apparel company deals. The golden goose is KEEPING YOUR JOB. The ADs at these schools don't care too much about lacrosse except to see a return on investment funded into the program. Exactly like publish or perish for academic assistant professors, if you are a coach of a funded program you have only two performance measures...win and keep your athletes/program out of trouble. Never before have there been commits this early, and if you trust that it is all rock solid, my best of luck to you. Read these threads and you'd think these kids have been handed four year deals and a commitment that can't be broken. If the coach at wherever offered a spot and some money, assume the spot and expect that money for the first year only. Rather than be upset on a notion of panic, give yourselves a small needed dose of something lacrosse parents need more of...a sense of reality.

I have two sons, one is a sophomore in college who committed to a FOUR YEAR DEAL for athletic money. He is getting exactly what was promised and has not seen the field much yet (hopefully this year) anyway, you people commenting have no clue what you're talking about!

Listen, there is no such thing as a 4yr athletic scholarship in lacrosse. Athletic scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis. Merit based money is for your 4 yrs as long as you keep up the standards set forth in it. You may be promised the same money athletically every yr but it is not guaranteed. Renewed year to year. With that said, for you and our son, I hope your deal stays the same all 4 yrs. congratulations and hopefully he gets more time this yr.

This is FACT!

Fact is my son has one and is receiving that money as we speak. Now that fact can be verified via my big bank account. I guess those types of scholarships only go to very special kids, so I'll accept the compliment. Good luck to all the boys!

Not only are you a worry monger, but you are also having a hard time reading...

I completely agree that there are no 4 year deal--Agreed.

The point was and continues to be that the early commits are receiving one year deals that coaches are not breaking. One year. After that year, if you are not performing or if they find someone better, you can lose. We agree.

We don't agree when you say college coaches are not honoring their early commit $. They are for the one year they were promised. THe coaches tell you this up front...

From cbs sports
2. Full-ride sports scholarships are scarce. There are only six sports where all the scholarships are full ride. These so-called head-count sports are football, men and women's basketball, and women's gymnastics, volleyball, and tennis. In these Division I sports, athletes receive a full ride or no ride.

3. Scholarships can be dinky. Beyond the head-count sports, all other sports are considered "equivalency" sports. NCAA rules dictate how much money a program, such as lacrosse or track, can spend on scholarships. Coaches can slice and dice these awards as they choose, which can lead to awfully small scholarships.

This to the guy with the 4 year scholarship:
From the New [lacrosse] Times:
Despite common references in news media reports, there is no such thing as a four-year scholarship. All N.C.A.A. athletic scholarships must be renewed and are not guaranteed year to year, something stated in bold letters on the organization’s Web site for student-athletes. Nearly every scholarship can be canceled for almost any reason in any year, although it is unclear how often that happens.

But I guess your right and the Times are wrong! Good luck with thar 4 yr promise hope it works out for you. But you needed a little dose of reality.

Like I said, depends on Coach and program. My sons Coach garranteed that the scholarship offered would not go down in amt for the four years, but could go up based on performance. So far he is holding up the deal, and we have no reason to believe it will change based on what is happening to other kids in the program.

The quote about the NESCAC's following the D1's is when NCAA says they can contact a junior player, September 1st, not these premature commits in 9th grade. They follow the rules. Just for the record, 3 out of 4 of our 9th grade commits have fallen apart now that the players are seniors. It's not what it appears to be.

But what you said is he has a 4 year scholarship. He does not. They don't exist. What he has so far is his freshman year he received what was promised. His sophomore year he received what was promised. NOW his junior and senior year are not guaranteed. You are hoping his coach keeps his word and the $ amount stays the same. Because as was proven in previous posts there are NO such things as 4 year scholarships. They are RENEWED on a yearly basis at the coaches discretion. They CAN be reduced or increased. Stop saying you received a 4 year scholarship. They DO NOT exist. So far he has a 2 year scholarship.

Please share what school has 3 of 4 that fell apart. Was it the kid or the school. We get a lot more media than ever before so I suspect you are flat out making this up, or you should be able to give details that are public and can be confirmed. I suspect you won't follow through and comment no further

Just because that's your experience does not make it accurate. I have several children playing or played D1 and I will tell you my experience. 2 have scholarships that are for 4 yrs. and believe me when I say several of their teammates retained their scholarship even though they were not able (for undisclosed reasons) to play. My others have scholarships that are literally renewable every year. Keep in mind, ALL ARE RENEWABLE, but not all coaches use the same criteria. And just to be clear, none of this has to do with academic or need $$.

If this is true, how come we don't see it anywhere or hear about it? For sure then they have some current sophomores and many juniors already verballed but I'm not aware of any announcements.

Why would this be different for D3 vs D1? Sounds like D1s don't care about grades?

He has a 4 year deal. You don't have to believe it but it is what we agreed to and coach is 100% committed to follow through. I'm not at all concerned. I guess we are part of a reputable program. There is no reason the coach would need to make promises he does not intend to keep. Why are you so mad?

That's the posters point. All are renewable. Which means they don't have to be. Thrre is no such thing as a 4 year deal.

Not mad just can't stand when people come on here and don't tell the truth, the ncaa states that there is no such thing as a four year scholarship. But your son has one. Guess what if he doesn't start living up to his part of the bargain on the field you will be dipping into that bank account you were bragging about. Good for you and your son if you were told the deal is in place, but remember thing change. Be prepared.

Told you my son's truth. All coaches and programs are different. When I played in college and had a career ending injury, I kept my sustaintial scholarship. My son will keep his four year deal. Just about every kid I know does!

Ok...Ok...You got to go on here pound your chest about yourself and kid....You told us we are all wrong....we get it. Your son is playing at the perfect school etc......Can you please put your two typing fingers away now......GEEZ

There are like three different arguments going on at the same time.

1--early guys are getting better $ which is why they commit early.

2--four year scholarships

3--nescac

For number 1, it is clear that the earlier you commit, the more 1st year $ you will get. If you look at the top 15 or 20 programs, most have taken their full roster of 2017 and are moving on to 2018. For the parents that say I won't let my kid commit this early, start looking for lower tier d-1 schools like Patriot. They don't give lax money anyway (for the most part) so you don't lose any scholarship opportunity.

I am sure the top programs will have a spot or two later, but unless your kid is a Greek god, it is an awful long shot.

Also, for number 1, I have not heard of a single instance other than failing to meet the grade requirements in which a coach reneged on his verbal early commit $. If someone has seen a coach who committed verbally to a 9th grade kid subsequently reneg on that offer, please share. Again if the kid couldn't make the SAT or GPA requirements, that is not a reneg as it was a condition to the initial package.

So, for number 1, early commits are generally a good thing with higher $ for a one year scholarship that can be renewed or changed by coach after 1st year is complete.

For number 2, we all agree (except for the guy with superman for a son) each year the coach has an opportunity to change the $ allocated up or down. He can cut you if he wants or find a kid that is better...

If your kid got say 25% lax $ and then he got another 25% in merit/gpa $ (total 50%), both can change in year two. For the lax $, the coach can pull them, for merit $, if your kid doesn't keep his GPA over a 3.0 (generally, each school has a little different threshold) he will lose that as well.

I hope a coach never pulls your kids $ but we know it can and has happened.

For number 3, nescac recruit later because they are generally top tier schools but give no lax $ and no merit $. Williams for example is rated number 1 Forbes, called the mini Ivies. Since they are d-3 and since there are no lax $ and no merit $, most of the schools wait while most of the families look to d-1 $ first. Why would a nescac coach waste his time chasing a kid that will likely go to a d-1.

One more point that most of you already know. Lax is a bad sport for scholarship $. at 12.9 for a fully funded program divided by 40-50 players means very little available for each kid.

Worse, many of the programs are no where near fully funded. most Patriots have very little if any lax $ and no merit. They look more like nescac schools...

If your kid has his hear set on going to a great school and playing d-1, open your checkbook a little further because you are looking at $50k plus for tuition and board.