BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse

because there as smart as you are jealous.

Read Coach Levy's interview, she definitely discourages hard majors in her program. That's a fact. Sure they have a few honors college girls but the the vast majority are soft majors. UNC like UVA and Michigan are very tough to get into because they are state schools and lots of Li kids applying. As far as dual sport athlete, what does that have to do with majors? This is a reality in these programs and parents who are allowing their 8th grader to commit need to know this. Sure there are exceptions but not many.
My real question is because yj is so focused on getting girls recruited early are they limiting girls chances of going to the Ivy League??? My guess is Rose promotes early recruiting more than any other club as a sign of results therefore justifying fees.

Yj isn't focused on early recruiting. The college coaches come looking at the yjs early. Rose promotes becoming a great lacrosse player.

Read Coach Levy's interview, she definitely discourages hard majors in her program. That's a fact. Sure they have a few honors college girls but the the vast majority are soft majors. UNC like UVA and Michigan are very tough to get into because they are state schools and lots of Li kids applying. As far as dual sport athlete, what does that have to do with majors? This is a reality in these programs and parents who are allowing their 8th grader to commit need to know this. Sure there are exceptions but not many.
My real question is because yj is so focused on getting girls recruited early are they limiting girls chances of going to the Ivy League??? My guess is Rose promotes early recruiting more than any other club as a sign of results therefore justifying fees.

Read Coach Levy's interview, she definitely discourages hard majors in her program. That's a fact. Sure they have a few honors college girls but the the vast majority are soft majors. UNC like UVA and Michigan are very tough to get into because they are state schools and lots of Li kids applying. As far as dual sport athlete, what does that have to do with majors? This is a reality in these programs and parents who are allowing their 8th grader to commit need to know this. Sure there are exceptions but not many.
My real question is because yj is so focused on getting girls recruited early are they limiting girls chances of going to the Ivy League??? My guess is Rose promotes early recruiting more than any other club as a sign of results therefore justifying fees.

Have read her article, have talked to her personally, have talked to kids in the program personally(my daughter was close to going there) and found nothing that she discourages hard majors so maybe you need to look up what a fact is. have not met one D1 coach that does not steer kids from certain classes ie. Nursing school mainly because the labs do interfere w practices and games and are difficult to make up. You personally sound like a pompous a------ when you act as if going to a top 30 university is some sort of let down. My kid graduated 1 in her class and was highly recruited lax player she elected not to go Ivy because she felt there is a bit of a pompous attitude of many at these schools( I disagreed w her opinion) .

YJ's have created beasts of parents who have caused an uproar in our town by demanding their 7th and 8th grader play varsity so they could keep up with some of their YJ teammates with bragging rights. And Cr is relentless in her promotion that's why the committed page on the home page goes all the way down to 9th graders. I don't agree with it but if you read this board there are many wackadoo parents that have bought into her model 100%.

So a 9th grader gets a partial athletic offer to a $55k school without fully understanding the academic portion of the package because she hasn't taken any HS classes yet?? What's the rush to commit? Things change over 4 years of HS trust me And how does your 8th or 9th grader know what they want to take as a major? What if she changes her mind after taking some electives in HS and then realizes forensics isn't a major at her committed lacrosse school? TAke a breath

The kids who choose great schools with difficult majors should be applauded. Lacrosse ends people, start coming to grips with it. If they play a bit that's wonderful but it is ending!

YJ's have created beasts of parents who have caused an uproar in our town by demanding their 7th and 8th grader play varsity so they could keep up with some of their YJ teammates with bragging rights. And Cr is relentless in her promotion that's why the committed page on the home page goes all the way down to 9th graders. I don't agree with it but if you read this board there are many wackadoo parents that have bought into her model 100%.

So a 9th grader gets a partial athletic offer to a $55k school without fully understanding the academic portion of the package because she hasn't taken any HS classes yet?? What's the rush to commit? Things change over 4 years of HS trust me And how does your 8th or 9th grader know what they want to take as a major? What if she changes her mind after taking some electives in HS and then realizes forensics isn't a major at her committed lacrosse school? TAke a breath

As far as Liberty goes,
UPENN Danny G's Very good friend is the coach. Always a few girls going there from Liberty/ manhasset.
USC same thing there Devon W is a good friend of Danny G.
Colgate the Asst coach played and coached for the Liberty.

Colgate isn't an ivy

Colgate isn't an ivy

With a $60k sticker price and a 1400 sat needed it's a damn tough school.

1400 SAT score for non athletes maybee, good lax players can get in with a much lower SAT score. I know first hand so don't go there. My daughter is at Colgate now.

Did an 8th grader really just commit to Florida? Can't we all agree this recruiting thing is just a little out of hand? I guess instead of taking my kid to great adventure after the summer season ends we need to be flying to colleges in 6th and 7th grade.

It's totally insane but congratulations! Now who will be the first 7th grader?

Princeton aid is by far the most generous.


http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/how_it_works/who_qualifies/

WOW so a $150,000 LI Household would get $33 off the $53 tuition and go to PRINCETON for the same price as a SUNY!!!

For the very select few who were born with the right athletic genes great, for 99.9% of everyone else pay for a tutor and get those grades up

Doesn't financial aid have to be paid back? Before you start to boogie around your palatial estate on LI I would suggest sitting down with your school's financial office...Financial aid is not a scholarship.

I did an analysis on another BOC thread using the 2013 Yellow Jackets. That analysis was to see how much each girls played for their respective teams.

In terms of Ivy League schools (and "Little Ivies") there were three out of 66. Not a lot. This is not the YJ marketing scheme; it's to showcase your child to get into a school and possible get some relief from the tuition. There are some girls who will use lacrosse to get into an Ivy but you still need the grades. D1 programs, especially top ten programs, have far more latitude with admissions than the Ivy schools. Ivy athletic participation falls into the 25%-30% range so academics do count.

Also remember that if your child is interested in an Ivy so is thousands of other candidates, many from prep/boarding schools. Take a look at a Harvard, Princeton, Amherst, Williams or Hamilton roster. These schools have very low acceptance rates. My hats off to any athlete that gets accepted because there is a lot more than lacrosse getting them into these schools.

If your sole purpose is for the athlete to win a D1 National Championship then there are really 8-10 teams with a couple bubble teams each year. Just look at the Final Four for the last couple of years. Outside of that group pick the best school to fit the athlete both academically and on the field. For 99.9% college is the last years they will ever play.

I found this, thoughts?

I think we, as fans and supporters of our great sport, should be cautious about applauding the addition of the sport at every school that adds it.

Here is why. The dirty, rotten truth is that a number of schools in non-traditional areas are adding the sport to help with their female population, overall school population, and generation of revenue (which is eventually not put back into the athletic department or into the budget of the program/scholarships, instead it is allocated elsewhere on campus where it is needed or desired more). They are not adding with hopes of winning a NCAA title, conference title, or even have their sights set on a winning season every now and then. And don't be mistaken. This isn't just happening at the D3 and D2 level. It is happening at the Division 1 level as well.

Lets do the simple math (don't be nit picky, this is all for the sake of the point I am trying to prove. I may be off be a few bucks here or there) and look at examples from scholarship schools (D1 and D2) and then non scholarship schools (D3).

School X at the D2 level costs $35,000 for tuition. They put together a roster of 25 lacrosse players. Hypothetically, that creates a revenue of $875,000. Coach gets paid $40,000 and assistant gets paid $15,000 (both those numbers are pretty generous for a lot of D2 schools). School provides 4 scholarships, totaling $140,000. Budget is $20,000 for the program. Let's say $25,000 in year 1 initial start up costs. Lets also say each student receives, on average, $5,000 worth of non-endowed academic scholarships (which means the school is basically giving a discount) awarded by the school, which totals $125,000. All totaled, in year one, the program has created $875,000, cost the school $365,000. That is a bottom line of $510,000. Half a million coming in to the school, per year, that otherwise would never have been there!

School Z at the D3 level costs $45,000 for tuition (the vast majority of D3s are private, liberal arts schools, so this tuition number is realistic). They put together a roster of 30 players (yes, believe it! These are the goals for MANY D3 programs). Hypothetically, that creates a revenue of $1,565,000. Coach gets paid $35,000 and has a graduate assistant that makes $10,000 a year plus grad classes equivalent of $10,000 a year.; so call it $20,000. No scholarships. Budget is $18,000 for the program. Start up costs would be, lets say, $15,000. Lets also assume that each player receives $7,000 worth of non-endowed scholarship money. That totals $210,000. All totaled, the program has created $1,565,000, and cost the school $298,000. Creating a bottom line of $1,267,000!

Obviously the math isn't that simple. There will be additional costs that aren't included or considered in the examples above i.e. facility upgrades needed to add the sport (but lets be honest, no one is building a new stadium because women's lacrosse is coming to town!). Or perhaps, the addition of one more athletic trainer to the staff to help cover the sport. Either way, say each estimated bottom line is WAY off base. And schools are actually only seeing half the numbers estimated above. School X would be creating $250,000 a year and School Z would be creating $600,000. No brainer, right? These schools see the opportunity to add a sport that has one of, if not, the highest, graduation rates of all collegiate sports. They do this knowing full well that the majority of lacrosse players are coming from strong socio-economic backgrounds. Again, REMEMBER, these are students that would not be attending these schools if not for lacrosse. Therefore, this is new revenue created by the school.

So, now that we have looked at all the numbers and benefits of adding the sport, what is the relevance of my post tonight? Simple. Many, many schools are adding the sport with little, if any, concern over the performance of the program on the field and the resume of the coach they hire (Don't believe me? One D1 just hired a Head Coach with ZERO D1 coaching experience and ZERO collegiate playing experience.). Their evaluation of the coach's performance is based on how big of a roster the coach recruits and retains (we just saw, bigger roster means more $$$ generated for the school) and how well the athletes are doing in the classroom and in the community. Hiring coaches for the small salaries we saw above, and giving them little resources, will cause consistent turnover and the continued hiring of young, inexperienced coaches. Is cycling through a new head coach every 2-3 years good for anyone? Is asking a 24 year old to recruit NON STOP, spend their entire summer on the road, and move to remote areas, all for $30,000 a year, realistic? NO!

I believe the growth of the sport is something we all want to see. But we should all want to see it done CORRECTLY. Hire coaches with a track record of sound, professional leadership. Oh, no good applicants? Dip into that HALF A MILLION your school is getting for adding the sport and throw an extra $15,000 to make sure you get someone worthwhile. After you hire someone qualified, give them the appropriate resources. Again, dip into that big bottom line and help them make their facility look appealing to recruits. Then, HOLD THE COACHES ACCOUNTABLE. Oh, and when you hold people accountable, you may be shocked at how much harder they work, and how much better they perform. It is a win-win for everyone.

I have officially jumped down from the soapbox. Hope you all could follow that stream of consciousness on some level.

"Well said. Definitely not the YJ model to push the ivy's since you can't commit in 8th grade! After top 10 in D1 it's a free for all. If you look at some of the schools on these lists it's pretty clear some parents are just sending their kids to any college that will give them a few bucks to play."

This statement is just idiotic. Not YJ model, YJ has been at this long before kids in 8th or even 10th grade were committing.You have no idea why those kids are committing to some of the schools that they are .You sound like a snobbish [lacrosse] when you put down kids who are going to college but not Ivy.

The poster didn't sound snobbish or like a douchbag. He/she was making some very valid points. If you don't think C.R. sees the value in an early commit list, and has altered her business model accordingly than either you are extremely naive, or you don't think very highly of C.R. business savvy. The original statement was pretty clear, and still very true, the Yellow Jackets do not send a lot of kids to the Ivy league, and when they do go they do not do well on the field. The statement that Liberty sense, statistically, more kids to Ivy's than any other club is still ,also true. Wether it's because D.G. has better connections (she does), or that the kids that play for her are very good students (they are), the fact remains the same. As for the overly obnoxious comment that liberty is just a Manhasset extension, all I can say is that may be true. I will also say that D.G. is an excellent coach, and the girls and parents are wonderful to be around, and no I am in that minority that does not live there (but secretly don't we all wish we could). I must also bring to light that out of all the girls that committed for the Y.J., and you all love to brag about this, only 2 are going Ivy, ! from St Anthony, and I know this is going to bother some of you, but the other is from Manhasset. With all her connections I wounded how much D.G. had to do with that because we know that C.R. probably couldn't. Lastly, PowderI hope I did better this time when you do my grammar and spelling this time.

Haha, no problems from me. I liked your post.

Too long to read

Yes I go to bed wishing I lived in Manhasset. You forgot something besides the kids being really smart & the coach having the right connections the parents who live in Manhasset have 7 figure incomes & that says a lot when the Ivies dont offer athletic scholarships. I think that figures in your equation as well, just look at the Garden City kids and how many go to Ivy league schools. Us southshore kids dont stand a chance ever heard the expression white trash?