BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019/2020 Fall 2011/Spring 2012

Opening a new thread for the fourth graders joining the lacrosse fold with a graduation year of 2019 or 2020.

The Express Boys 2019 Orange won the LI Lax Fest and the Forsberg Tournament. Congratulations to this group and good luck for many years ahead!

Has anyone heard about this team called the Dune Dawgs? They seem to be doing well against the 2019/2020 teams out there.

The Dune Dawgs link appears to the right side of the display in the Long Island Clubs content island. Their club site hosts four team landing areas : 2018 Green, 2019 Green, 2019 Blue, and 2020 Green.

The following club overview appears on the Dune Dawgs home page: "The directors of HAVOC Lacrosse and The Long Island Dune Dawgs Lacrosse programs are excited to announce the combining of our programs. This merger will ultimately meet the needs of ALL athletes! HAVOC Lacrosse will remain a "travel" team challenging the needs of all developing athletes, while our Dune Dawgs Lacrosse program will be a "select" team, challenging the needs of more advanced athletes."

Havoc Dune Dawgs are the bomb- Such a great team 2019 really have some awesome kids and talent-

its a great program with awesome coaching from coach taylor from dowling

Congratulations to Team 91's fourth grade orange boys (2020) on their win at the Skull and Bones tournament last weekend. Well done with this young group!

Congratulations also go out to the Team 91 sixth grade (2018) orange team for their win at the Yale Bulldog event.

Congrats to your 2020 team; however, there is a page for your 2018 team. This isn't the one......

Just saw the team 91 2020 team win the Santa Jam. Team is awesome! they beat the Express 25-3, and they beat their own 2nd teir team 15-1 and another team 17-1! They are great, they have these two kids that never leave the field and the coaches just keep letting them score all the time. They are awesome they team just keeps scoring goals no matter how bad they are beating a team. They killed express and killed their own white team by 15 goals at least. They even scored behind the back with 5 seconds left in the express game even though the score was 24-3. The express kids were crying...it must have been an awesome feeling for all those 91 coaches and parents to crush and embarass fellow 10 year old long island lacrosse players.

I wish my kid could be on that team, but my sons coach doesn't allow that, something about sportsmanship and honoring the game...oh wait...that's what it's suppose to be all about right?

This can and does happen in the younger age groups when teams have just formed. As for the acceptable margin of victory, ten runs in baseball/softball is a kill rule and six goals in soccer form the gentleman's limit. Honestly, we have never seen a handshake rule in lacrosse, but cannot imagine that a ten-goal limit is hard to follow.

Sportsmanship occurs even in lopsided games. You can have players switch positions etc... A coach with character does not allow players to score behind the back or without making several passes. This coach did none of these things, he and the rest of the staff just encouraged the boys without regard for the score. the games were 25 minutes long...its simple to not score 25 goals in that time. If I was a parent on that team I would be upset my son was part of it.

I could not even imaginge watching that game, what does that teach a child about sportmanship and team work. As a parent, I would be ashamed, how sad for adults/coaches to teach kids this. Winning is great, what an awesome feeling, but is it everything? Thats what these young players are taught. They do not know how to lose and most importantly they do not know what it feels like to lose. "GOOD CHARACTER" thats what we teach our children, on and off the field it is what that child portrays, slaughtering a team just because you can does not portray GOOD CHARACTER. In the real world, good character is what really counts!

It only "just happens" because coaches ALLOW it to happen. Nothing in life just happens, it is a direct result of action or inaction. As for my PAL team, if we were ahead by 8 or 10 I can assure you not another goal would be scored because I would give them plays to follow that quite simply would be very difficult to execute at their age group. Someone doesn't follow the play to full execution and decides to score, they sit the rest of the game and they know that BEFORE they go out on the field to execute the play. This, I believe not only teaches them sportsmanship, but will make them a better team next year, and that year will come quickly. I think those coaches that allow that got beat up in high school and it's their way of getting back, since they can't give back!. Just my 2 cents.

Although I agree with the posts about running up the score, I must say sometimes kids DO NOT LISTEN when coaches tell them not to shoot, make extra passes and so on. I do not have a son on team 91 but in the 7th 8th grade championship game of the Santa jam their team was winning by about 10 with less then a minute to play and the coaches were screaming not to shoot. One player took a shot as time ran out and both the coaches went right up and got in his face. Tells me its more the team/coaches of the 2020 team then the 91 program

The really unfortunate part of the situation is that the coach of that team is a division 1 college lacrosse coach and a director in the 91 program.

Sad state of affairs when it comes from the top. And to beat your own programs team by that many goals shows little character.

How can all those parents go home and not be upset at what their child is being subjected to.

Agreed, coaching is everything, they are supposed to be role models......teaching lifes lessons on and off the field....Happy New Year!

I've seen both sides of this.

We've played on a club team that on occasion when they could score , would score, regardless of the score. This normally occurred when playing other club travel teams, the coach had no problem running it up against another high level competitive team. Maybe a way of proving their programs superiority I guess. In theory getting them all ready for what the real competition will be, No 4 goal rule in JV, Varsity and beyond. On the flip side when this same team played a town team he would hold them back, we even switched half the team and swapped pennies at the half to make it even. The kids were always very respectful and never disrespected any competition, they just realized overall they were a better lacrosse team and tried to play at the highest level.

I've also seen teams play keep away for an entire half while the coaches are yelling don't shoot. This in my opinion has been much more humiliating to the kids as the run around for 20 minutes and never touch the ball.

Now regards to this specific 91 team, they’ve been doing this for a while and have created a poor situation. I think it was second grade, they entered the 91 team as a town team (Shoreham) at ISA and we heard the parents bragging about winning all their games by at least 20 goals. They were removed from the league. (This was before the ISA, 91 alliance).

My son is on the 2020 B team and to be fair the express beat us 18-1 in the Halloween tournament. That same tournament an express coach also director in the 6th grade division won 30-0. It happens everywhere. These are select teams afterall.Last year in the spring league express fourth grade team beat our 91 B 3rd grade team 30-0!!The coach of the express team that got steamrolled yesterday was the same coach that did it to us last year! THat was not honoring the game .. was it? Because of that we stayed and watched the 2020 team play! You can not just honor the game when its convenient!!

Please allow BOTC to give you all a very different perspective on this "beat the snot" out of the opposition discussion. When we are talking about 15 and 20 goal wins in the course of a 30-to-45 minute match, we passed the sportsmanship exit many miles back.

Think about what you are buying as a parent for your child. You are a consumer of lacrosse services here and BOTC wants to challenge what you are buying.

When you sign-on for a club experience, you are "buying" experience :

• coaching experience,
• training experience,
• sometimes collegiate or professional playing experience,
• perhaps college connect experience ...
• but also you are purchasing marketplace experience.

What this last bit implies is that your club directors and coaches understand the competitive landscape and place their teams in tournaments which have been properly sized-up for their competitive level.

The argument that flows from this is as follows : "Well, we didn't know that the competition level was weak."

Quite frankly, BOTC finds that argument to be rubbish. It is your JOB as a club director and club coach to have these answers after researching where you are placing your team(s). Anything less shows weak research and undermines the value of what you are purchasing as a family.

So, you see, the problem is not completely controlling what happens on the field - it also calls into question the quality of the coaching staff itself in evaluating talent and tournaments.

Think about it.

This statement is false. I know those coaches personally and I have watched and heard them yell "no shots" to their players and "everyone must touch the ball" Yesterday the TEAM 91 sidelines were silent. Regardless if it were true it doesn't make it right. There is no "eye for an eye" mentality when it comes to youth sports. Regardless of how adults feel about one another or which club teams hate the other. The kids are the losers in this situation and that is unacceptable.

great point. Well said.

I wouldn't want to be a kid on that team. Only 2 kids get the ball and never come off the field? That's a pathetic display of coaching. Nice job teaching teamwork and sportsmanship.

well said BOTC, we have watched these "elite teams" beat up their competition, we have been one of the teams being beat up on by "Team 91" as a parent, I have to stand on the side lines and listen to the oppossing teams parents encourage their players to keep scoring, I know that they are paying to WIN. It is discouraging, degrading.....I am proud of the fact that as a team, our players rise to the occassion, but am saddened by the fact that Team 91 has to win at all costs........always be nice to everyone on the way up, because it's those same people/players you will see on the way back down my friends.

My sons team played and lost to this team this weekend. They lost by a bunch of goals but the 91 parents were not jumping and screaming. They were not obnoxious, they cheered their kids like any parent would. My son and his team played hard and learned that if they lose its not the end of the world. Would it have been nice for 91 to not rub noses in it? Sure, but it would also not be fair for those kids to have to play keep away for every game they play. It would have been nice if that 91 team only played in their own division and not beat up on all the 5th grade teams too. The only team that I saw even come close was their own 5th grade B team...and even they lost 15 to 7. At one time I counted 7 coaches on their sidelines but rumor on the sideline was that's how they attract the all star players...play here and we will make you a coach so your kid plays for free and hotel tab is covered on the road. Scholarships in youth travel lacrosse...is this the norm or a new trick?

Its not false...look at the scores.

while I disagree with Spallina's "take no prisoners" attitude to youth lacrosse, I find it funny to hear Express parents complaining about it. Express teams have been humiliating weaker teams for years. My son has been on the losing side in 20+ goal blowouts by Express teams several times. Pot calling the kettle black.

is this a pal/town lacrosse thread or travel?? express beat my sons team by 30 plus last year in a game!! Sounds like the express are not used to it happening back to them. Two wrongs do not make a right tho!

First of all, so you are saying that two wrongs make a right? Is that what we are teaching our children? If so great job, you have succeeded.

Second, what you have failed to mention is that when the Express team was "STEAMROLLED" at the Santa Jam they had NO GOALIE! The goalie of the team that was "STEAMROLLED" had to leave unexpectedly for the final game and one of the team's players stood up to the plate with NO GOALIE EQUIPMENT other than a goalie stick. So your talented team scored 25 goals, shooting behind the back on a kid with a goalie stick who NEVER played goalie before. GREAT job 91 coaches!

Why would a coach or a parent let a 9 or 10 year old stand in goal with no goalie equipment against a team that shoots as hard as that 91 team does? if you ask me that is the travesty here..not the running up of the score.

actually it says two wrongs do NOT make a right ...read carefully. My son is Not on that 91 team, although I wish he was hahah. It happens.

Please, I coach a town team when we play our rival team, which we hate, when I yell pass the ball, the kiDS know that is code word to score and do a dance. Then I yell kid get over here right now. And I tell him ice cream on me. The coach new what he was doing.

Just to clarify: the boy in goal had on a cup, chest protector and throat guard. Neither the Express coaches nor the boy's parents would send him out there unprotected. But it is true that he has never played goal before. And thanks to Spallina, he never will again.

Maybe "Team 91" has something to prove against Express, who knows, what I do know is, I wouldn't want my son on a team where the coaches son is a player........conflict of interest and "Team 91" is everyones rival now!

ok people, yes 91 ran the score up high against the express, but when the score started to get away (up around 10) Express was playing very dirty and took a lot of penalties and every penalty was a fast break. Clearly 91 can play so most fast breaks ended in uncontested goals. Unfortunately my son was one of the boys on the express team and was upset with the result. But I have to be fair in saying that with the way some of the express defenders were playing, I can see why the dogs were not called off. running around cheap shotting people can be viewed as worse than scoring goals. And by the way the express coaches sons are on our team.

It will probably take more than 91 4th grade team beating up the express for the express to lose the title of everyones enemy. Not even close

Maybe I misunderstood the previous poster...when they wrote "NO GOALIE EQUIPMENT AT ALL EXCEPT A GOALIE STICK" and in all caps, I figured they meant...well he wore no goalie equipment...lol. Player safety should be paramount and if that means a team must step down and forfeit a game so be it. Whatever the case is it sounds like everyone is upset that spallina has a tremendous team this year, love it or hate it, it is a great group of players that for this year at least all came together. What is this team supposed to do, not play games because they always win? Running up the score so much may not be the best thing to do, but is also not the worst thing in the world, his kids play hard and they play fair and they had very few penalties. The behind the back passes and shots came across as cocky but it also kept the score lower than it could have been. I think most people smashing this team would jump at the chance to have their kid play with them.

Wow, what has happened to the once proud express orange? Making excuses for losses. What travel team doesn't have a backup goalie? It appears they are losing talent to 91 and Dune Dawgs. How does losing the starting goalie explain the lack of offense?

seriously only 3 goals from an express orange team?? My son is older and I have seen this instance more times than I can remember but thats a good question only 3 goals. My neighbors kid was a participant (express) in this game and said 91 had about 10 fast breaks as a result from penaltys.

Oh yes your right as long as most people means those that get free tuition, free hotels and cart blanc when it comes to how many 91 teams they are aloud to play on......and oh yes lets not forget every parent gets to be a coach.