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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Congrats to Liberty, you knocked off that other Long Island team in the playoffs. go 2014 liberty, Long Islands real elite


Yeah but that wasn't the "real" team. All the good players were at soccer and feild hockey games. In order for any win to be cosidered a "real win" there is a very ridgid formula to be met. If any player is absent, all bets are off. If any player has a boo boo, all bets are off, if the planets aren't lined up all bets are off. For every loss there will be an excuse. And I know not all the parents feel this way, but it is the reaction you see on the discussion boards. I just wish for once you would see someone take the high road, and pay respect to a team that beats them. I know there are rational parents out there from this organization, but they are not the ones posting and making the teams look like sore losers. Anyway, saw that you beat YJ blue in playoffs, great job.

Funny I don't see any excuses about anything! You write abrasive posts and then you blast people for responding!You want people to take the high road, yet you childishly try to provoke a reaction! It is comical. Congrats to your kids. i am sure they work hard. As for you idiots gloating, very pathetic!


You don't see excuses? Then keep reading.

How about this one:

"I bet most of the kids who committed in YJ 2013 class did not attend. That clearly leaves them at a disadvantage."

That's not an excuse?

And please look at posts throughout all categories where we see many, many more ridiculous reasons why the YJs lost.

There is a difference between excuses and facts! People react to the statements like "the 2014 liberty Black Team is the "Real" eilte team on LI" . If you make the statements you have to expect a reaction. Just like the Liberty girls, the YJ girls work their asses off to get where they are. Then they lose a game or two and you have "ADULTS" rejoicing about them losing a game. It is soooo rediculous! This is really what makes you feel happy? Again pathetic!


Where are adults rejoicing? Where do you see that? If they are, then I agree, they are fools.

Thanks for the distinction between "excuses" and "facts".

It seems like the YJs sure have a ton of exc....pardon me...."facts" every time they lose. Now that's a fact!!
Calling the Liberty the "Real Elite" team and referring to the YJ blue as the other team, is a coy way of rejoicing. BTW, I agreed that a win is a win,but when you pound your chest about it and make statements like that, people will react (with facts not speculation)to it. The bottom line is all the kids are good players and I hope the college coaches recognize Long Island as a dominant region for Girls lax. It benefits all the girls.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Calling the Liberty the "Real Elite" team and referring to the YJ blue as the other team, is a coy way of rejoicing. BTW, I agreed that a win is a win,but when you pound your chest about it and make statements like that, people will react (with facts not speculation)to it. The bottom line is all the kids are good players and I hope the college coaches recognize Long Island as a dominant region for Girls lax. It benefits all the girls.
Long Island and Maryland remain the two hot spots for recruiting on the East Coast. Making sure that Long Island presents a unified front for recruiting by supporting local recruiting tournaments will be a CRITICAL factor in making sure that Long Island's strength does not erode. Think of it this way : if the only place to see multiple Long Island teams is an off-Long Island tournament (like Mid-Atlantic in Maryland), exactly what clubs and regions are benefitting?

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser

I don't disagree with you. It is rediculous to gloat. The parents are not even playing. The thing is there are idiot parents in every organization, but you shouldn't get dragged into the mud slinging if you care about the kids!

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.


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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.

you missed the point. When the YJ lost this weekend everyone was talking about it like it was a big deal. No one mentions when they win, that is the point.


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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.

you missed the point. When the YJ lost this weekend everyone was talking about it like it was a big deal. No one mentions when they win, that is the point.

no you missed the point you sounded like an [lacrosse] not one liberty parent quoted a score you truly have no class and your an embarrassment to a good team

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.

you missed the point. When the YJ lost this weekend everyone was talking about it like it was a big deal. No one mentions when they win, that is the point.

no you missed the point you sounded like an [lacrosse] not one liberty parent quoted a score you truly have no
class and your an embarrassment to a good team


So running your mouth off as long as you don't mention the score is ok. Thanks, now we all know the rules.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.

you missed the point. When the YJ lost this weekend everyone was talking about it like it was a big deal. No one mentions when they win, that is the point.

no you missed the point you sounded like an [lacrosse] not one liberty parent quoted a score you truly have no
class and your an embarrassment to a good team


So running your mouth off as long as you don't mention the score is ok. Thanks, now we all know the rules.
in every major sport from pee wee to pro pointing to a scord board to taunt is a major personal foul your just and [lacrosse] and embarrassment to the Yellow Jackets , classless

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Did the Liberty parents miss this one


Sunday, November 06, 2011 11:20 AM
Yellow Jackets
2015 Blue 15

Liberty Lax
Lib Lax 2014/15 Combo 1

15-1?
Now tell me how this YJ parent isn't obnoxious, quoting a score,yes you won yes it was a blow out, no excuses, you were better that day, but maybe not tomorrow. so if the score should reverse , and a liberty parent gloats this is the reason why , you have no class, not every YJ parent just you your kid might be a elite player , but your a loser


Not all YJ parents glote, I agree this guy is way off base and I am embarassed by him. He probably wasn't even there, I was and I know that was definitely not the top Liberty team that played us in the years past. But I do believe it really would not have mattered becayse the YJ 2015 Blue is very strong. I am not saying Liberty 2015 A is not strong, I am just stating my opinion.

you missed the point. When the YJ lost this weekend everyone was talking about it like it was a big deal. No one mentions when they win, that is the point.

no you missed the point you sounded like an [lacrosse] not one liberty parent quoted a score you truly have no
class and your an embarrassment to a good team


So running your mouth off as long as you don't mention the score is ok. Thanks, now we all know the rules.


pal, you are embarrassing the majority of YJ dads who have some class and are not living through the sports accomplishments of their daughters. If you keep this up, you will be giving everyone a bad name and it is already trickling down to college coaches who I don't want thinking we act this way. I know for a fact this is happening.

Yellow Jackets beats Liberty, Liberty beats Yellow Jackets, full squads play full squads, full squads play mixed talent teams. It is all meaningless. Commend their efforts and good sportsmanship, and simply look forward to the next time they play.


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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Enough talk about yj let's get to discussing our upcoming teams and how we think they will do this summer , Libertydad thanks for defending our girls over on the yj site ,shows how out of control the yj parents all are when they know we are the top program on long island

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Enough talk about yj let's get to discussing our upcoming teams and how we think they will do this summer , Libertydad thanks for defending our girls over on the yj site ,shows how out of control the yj parents all are when they know we are the top program on long island



hahahahahaha yeah top program in Manhasset maybe

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Enough talk about yj let's get to discussing our upcoming teams and how we think they will do this summer , Libertydad thanks for defending our girls over on the yj site ,shows how out of control the yj parents all are when they know we are the top program on long island



hahahahahaha yeah top program in Manhasset maybe
So you know I've been responding to these people fro a while, and the one thug that seems to stick out is that they seem to hate Manhasset , anyway , I hope all the girls are having a good xmas , and I wish you all luck for the upcoming lacrosse season.see you all soon.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Libertydad , who hates Manhasset ? Who are they?

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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from what I can gather some parents from the yellow jackets mostly, but can you blame they cant get the girls from manhasset ,and who wouldn't want to pull from that talent pool. and a couple from top guns. But thats not really our problem let them talk, we just need to keep our girls happy.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Enough talk about yj let's get to discussing our upcoming teams and how we think they will do this summer , Libertydad thanks for defending our girls over on the yj site ,shows how out of control the yj parents all are when they know we are the top program on long island



hahahahahaha yeah top program in Manhasset maybe
I Feel like I need to apologize for the post i submitted after seeing this post, I have seen a few of them on a couple of these threads, and I guess after seeing this one on the liberty thread i kind of got p- offed and posted without thinking. please allow it to die here o.k. again , my apologies I didn't intend to offend anyone

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by libertydad
from what I can gather some parents from the yellow jackets mostly, but can you blame they cant get the girls from manhasset ,and who wouldn't want to pull from that talent pool. and a couple from top guns. But thats not really our problem let them talk, we just need to keep our girls happy.


Looks like several 2020 girls from manhasset are starting a new trend and have jumped ship leaving liberty and going to YJ.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
from what I can gather some parents from the yellow jackets mostly, but can you blame they cant get the girls from manhasset ,and who wouldn't want to pull from that talent pool. and a couple from top guns. But thats not really our problem let them talk, we just need to keep our girls happy.


Looks like several 2020 girls from manhasset are starting a new trend and have jumped ship leaving liberty and going to YJ.


I am guessing that is a joke.....funny.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
from what I can gather some parents from the yellow jackets mostly, but can you blame they cant get the girls from manhasset ,and who wouldn't want to pull from that talent pool. and a couple from top guns. But thats not really our problem let them talk, we just need to keep our girls happy.


Looks like several 2020 girls from manhasset are starting a new trend and have jumped ship leaving liberty and going to YJ.


I am guessing that is a joke.....funny.


Actually it is not, look at the rosters.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
from what I can gather some parents from the yellow jackets mostly, but can you blame they cant get the girls from manhasset ,and who wouldn't want to pull from that talent pool. and a couple from top guns. But thats not really our problem let them talk, we just need to keep our girls happy.


Looks like several 2020 girls from manhasset are starting a new trend and have jumped ship leaving liberty and going to YJ.


I am guessing that is a joke.....funny.


Actually it is not, look at the rosters.

The joke is your talking about 2020 girls jumping ship. What is that 3rd grade? It really did sound like someone making a sarcastic joke. But since your serious, good luck.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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people, they are 4th graders.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?
2020 really ? let see if they come back home.

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my point was that in fourth grade the child is not the one jumping ship. If the child was asked I believe they would much rather play with their friends and classmates at this age. I too am serious about the game, because my children are. The older daughter plays for her town team and a competetive club while the fifth grader still plays town. I just hope those serious parents ask their kids what they would like to do.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?
by the way this is one of those y.j parents i was talking about. there not all like this.

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Why is it that when a parent has a younger child on a travel lacrosse program someone always thinks that the kid is too young and being forced to play? Why can't a fifth or fourth grader really like to play? Everyone thinks they are the best parent in the world and knows exactly what is best for every child and their families. Worry about your own kids, not mine.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
my point was that in fourth grade the child is not the one jumping ship. If the child was asked I believe they would much rather play with their friends and classmates at this age. I too am serious about the game, because my children are. The older daughter plays for her town team and a competetive club while the fifth grader still plays town. I just hope those serious parents ask their kids what they would like to do.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?
by the way this is one of those y.j parents i was talking about. there not all like this.


Dont make this what it is not Not a yj parent. from Manhasset actually. A friend told me a bunch of girls were leaving Manhasset to go play for yj. There is a lot of unhappiness in Manhasset with liberty but most parents are afraid to play elsewhere because danielle coaches HS. Why play for YJ if liberty is in your backyard?

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I apologize, I was not trying to tell you what is right for your child. just know of many kids, mine included that have left sports because they may have been placed somewhere they did not truly want to be.

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some YJs parents are so threatened by Liberty, that they have to point to a few FOURTH GRADERS (yes, 4th graders) who for whatever reason are supposedly on the YJS. Then they say "I heard alot of manhasste people don't like Liberty". Newsflash - you can't please everyone, YJs!

Vast majority of manhasset (and many other Nassau towns) love the Liberty experience. great training, great teams, great recruiting. And less baggage than dealing with the Yjs parents!!

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?
by the way this is one of those y.j parents i was talking about. there not all like this.


Dont make this what it is not Not a yj parent. from Manhasset actually. A friend told me a bunch of girls were leaving Manhasset to go play for yj. There is a lot of unhappiness in Manhasset with liberty but most parents are afraid to play elsewhere because danielle coaches HS. Why play for YJ if liberty is in your backyard?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by libertydad
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
people, they are 4th graders.


4th graders whose parents are obviously serious about lax and have chosen YJ over liberty even though the y cme from Manhasset. The real joke is in the guy who says YJ parents don't like Manhasset because they can't draw from the talent pool. Any other theories?
by the way this is one of those y.j parents i was talking about. there not all like this.


Dont make this what it is not Not a yj parent. from Manhasset actually. A friend told me a bunch of girls were leaving Manhasset to go play for yj. There is a lot of unhappiness in Manhasset with liberty but most parents are afraid to play elsewhere because danielle coaches HS. Why play for YJ if liberty is in your backyard?


This is actually a problem with several clubs where the travel coaches are also school coaches and there is much added pressure to sway to one club or another. School districts should ban their coaches from at least for profit coaching of whatever sport they coach for school. It is a big conflict of intrest, and unfortunately the kids suffer from it. How well treated would a kid from northport get treated playing for someone other than yj's? And it doesn't stop there because many coaches within a club coach at school level too and try to direct kids to their club, I see it in my district, its a horrible position for the kids. Part of the bs politics.

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Northport already has kids on different clubs and there is NO issue for them!! They also have a NO cut policy too. The coaches are happy they have a stick in their hand.

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YJ threatened by Liberty? And how do you come to this conclusion? Please elaborate

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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A lot, a bunch. How many girls are there, lets give the over under at 4. Personally, I don't live in Manhasset, so I don't know the dynamic of what goes on there in lacrosse, but I cant understand how a 4th grader has any interaction with Danielle at all, unless she had an older sister. What I can't understand is how anyone could say anything bad about the woman, she is the nicest, most fare person I have ever met. especially in lacrosse.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Why is it that when a parent has a younger child on a travel lacrosse program someone always thinks that the kid is too young and being forced to play? Why can't a fifth or fourth grader really like to play? Everyone thinks they are the best parent in the world and knows exactly what is best for every child and their families. Worry about your own kids, not mine.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
my point was that in fourth grade the child is not the one jumping ship. If the child was asked I believe they would much rather play with their friends and classmates at this age. I too am serious about the game, because my children are. The older daughter plays for her town team and a competetive club while the fifth grader still plays town. I just hope those serious parents ask their kids what they would like to do.
No one said that anyones daughter was forced to play, what they said was a 4th grader is not deciding what team to play on , thats the parents decision , so the real question is what problem does the parent have with Danielle. And i really don't think Danielle will cut a girl/ not play a girl on her school team because she plays for the Y.J. . I do think she will cut a girl because she Does not have what it takes to play at a high level. So anyone that says Danielle will cut a good player , and risk beating G.C. and not making playoffs, does not know Danielle, and knows less about lacrosse.

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Re: Long Island Liberty Lacrosse
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Originally Posted by Anonymous
YJ threatened by Liberty? And how do you come to this conclusion? Please elaborate


Mention Liberty in front of the Yellow Jackets and see the smoke come out of their ears. Mention Top Guns and watch smoke come from their eyes.


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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
YJ threatened by Liberty? And how do you come to this conclusion? Please elaborate


Mention Liberty in front of the Yellow Jackets and see the smoke come out of their ears. Mention Top Guns and watch smoke come from their eyes.



This is very true on both accounts. Now I can see this reaction from the directors point of view, as they are taking away a piece of the pie. What I don't get is the nasty reaction from players parents, its weird. And its not just a competitive thing, they have this double crossed hatred attitude that must come down from the top or something. Its sad because I know many, many yj parents and I pretty much avoid lacrosse conversations with them because they get all amped up against the mention of any other club.

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Seriously neither one of those clubs has done well consistently against the YJ. They are no threat whatsoever. Yea they will win a game once in a while. Great for them!! But as for consistency for the past 10 years with performance YJ wins hands down. Keep working hard it will take some time before you build the same reputation. Best of luck to all.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Northport already has kids on different clubs and there is NO issue for them!! They also have a NO cut policy too. The coaches are happy they have a stick in their hand.


Please name one starter on Northport who plays for another club team.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous
Seriously neither one of those clubs has done well consistently against the YJ. They are no threat whatsoever. Yea they will win a game once in a while. Great for them!! But as for consistency for the past 10 years with performance YJ wins hands down. Keep working hard it will take some time before you build the same reputation. Best of luck to all.


Top guns have done really poor against the yj's for the last ten years. The first 8 years of the ten, they never won a game, only in the last two years have they won a game against yj.

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