BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse

I agree with you on this, so long as the cost is pro rated as well. Is being on 2024 blue team #4 really worth the same as 2013 blue #1? Sometimes I scratch my head thinking it really is all about the money. All these changes, especially this year seems aggressive.

While we cannot validate whether this is the actual pricing from a given point in time, it would seem that this year's pricing and offering are the only items in scope. You can choose to avail yourself of the sessions or choose to opt out. That is a value-for-money assessment that your family has to make. On the surface, the value proposition seems very reasonable by market standards.

This debate about the 2020 teams is interesting. On the soccer side, the local league administrates a full U/10 league season (Fall/Spring), state cup tournament, and local club playoff style tournament. [Soccer has launched U/9 leagues on Long Island and will likely form U/8 leagues in fairly short order.] Baseball sees similar structures emerging at at U/10 age group.

Club teams then opt to do tournaments atop this structure across Long Island and sometimes a bit further. Again, this is part of the club team's philosophy that should be discussed when you sign up for a program.

Holding teams at this age group, whether town based or elite program based, are similar enterprises. Honestly, what is the issue? A team needs to exist somewhere to learn how to play the game, not just for skills training.

There is no issue depending what tournaments they intend to go to. If they are sending them to the same tournaments as the older girls then this group will be playing in a division that starts at 2018, so they would be playing up two years, and it's not only a skill level thing, the girls are much bigger. My daughter played up one year and even that was pushing it at this age. Now if they do local tournaments like someone had mentioned, with age appropiate brackets, that is fine. Wasn't the hornets program good enough to support this level at this age? I just see it as pushing the issue to be called a yellowjacket.

YJ's are so afraid of letting a good player slip threw their hands (and then seeing them on another LI club team) that they want them committed to YJ at an early age. All kids develop at different ages and the idea of a 4th grader not making a team and then coming back to haunt them in three years is with Liberty or Top Guns is no longer acceptable (the cash flow doesn't hurt either) the philosophy seems to be everyone makes a team and we will not leave any player for anyone else. I believe that Express actually has a 2021 team! Get them in the fold early and keep them funding the cause as long as possible!

Will the 2020's play on age or will they play up? What ages do other areas start at?

I guess $50,000 is worth it if you get 1 year worth of full ride athletic scholarship monies, but that is a pretty big lottery ticket

Don't let anyone fool you it is all about the money with all these clubs. If they would just admit it is a business at least they would all be seen as honest.

players on the "A" and "B" teams - now that there are no longer five different colors - have a good shot at college money, C, D and E not so much, don't confuse the word committment with scholarship, two very different things

Most kids that start this young will probably play with YJ forever. they also have the best shot of retaining their spot. Unless they are really bad they should always make a team. starting young assures you a spot on the best team it is then your spot to lose.

First, the tournament plans for the bulk of the teams are still not set. Therefore, worrying about which tournaments will be on the docket is premature. However, this is not why we are writing.

Starting out as parents of a U/10 player, please stay well clear of the college scholarship debate. Those discussions are at least five or six years away (for 2020/2021 students) and the competition for even a 0.25 first year athletic scholarship will be intense. Your student-athlete will let you know their passion level for the game - or any game - along the way.

Look at the early investment of maybe $1000.00 as helping your child explore the game in a structured, educational environment. One year from now, re-evaluate whether your expectations were met and whether your child would like to continue for another year.

Good luck and enjoy!

You are right. Just like any business, a service is being provided. You, as a consumer, get to decide whether you believe that service is providing value for the charges compared to the market competition. Now, if the only parameter that we want to discuss about any program is cost, the only conclusion you will draw is that it is all about money - since it is the only parameter in play.

Rather than thinking about missing a U/10 player and having it impact future competition, think about this entire subject again. How is the training curriculum for U/10? Are skills being taught for some of the training sessions? How is the team work environment? Are team roles on the field and positions being taught? Are the players experiencing all of the positions at a young age?

There are many parameters to discuss for the student-athlete just starting out. Costs in the first year are generally not the make-or-break decision point.

$1000.00 for the year? By the time the club fees are paid, camps, clinics, equipment, tournament fees, travel costs, hotel fees, tee shirts and whatever else gets paid for along the way. It is "easily" $3000-$4000 a year spent to play.

If you are going to have your child play, you will need to pay for equipment with any club; so, that is a fixed cost of playing.

You, as a parent, can decide which camps and clinics you can and cannot afford to attend.

As for tournaments, since the schedules are not known, we cannot see that you can assume massive hotel/lodging bills as yet. If you do have large bills at this age, we certainly can have a lively debate on that point - and that would apply for any club.

Let's start with what we know right now. How much did your equipment and training payments (registration fees) cost thus far? How much are parents paying to get "set-up"? You should be inside that $1000.00 number thus far, no?

What a great opportunity to learn the fundamentals properly at such a young age. They're building a great foundation for younger players.

YJ has provided this opportunity for younger players for the past 3 years. It's clear from the turn out that they must be providing a good service.

For the big money IT SHOULD be a top notch service!

Again it goes back to what tournaments they intend to go to at this age group. And yes this applies to all clubs. The two to three day tournaments are a $500 weekend on the cheap side. Five or six tournaments. Forget the camps clinics equipment, fixed costs. Your at more like $5 to $6 k per year with the rest of it. Just the very bare minimum of a 5 to 6 travel season is easily $3 to $4 k. This is not yj only, it's any club. I know I spent much closer to 6 than 3, those are the real numbers, good or bad, it is what it is.

perhaps you are all missing the point. It is not up to you if it is not worth it,it is up to the individual parents .Is that pool that you had put in last year a good investment ,absolutely not but you get to decide how you will spend your money.For the 2020 girls the chance to go away with 60 or so girls their own age ,stay in hotels together, swim in the hotel pools together,have team pizza parties,make new friends ,learn lacrosse,may be worth every penny.My 2019 played last year and had a blast.As far as playing up in age they won many more games then they lost and the dangerous thing is silly.

there's a significant amount of families with more than one kid playing, so if you're already there for your 2016 & 2018 child,you might just as well have your 2020 kid play too. there's actually is an economy of scale quotient that makes the cost for the additional kid minimal. however, it does get a little dicey when the older kids are suddenly playing in different tournaments than the younger ones, half the family is in one town and half is in another

that's the good news and the bad news, unfortunately too many legacy players find their way on to teams that they don't belong on. just because there's an older sibling or two playing (or have already played) it shouldn't guarantee a roster spot for a player, but that's far from the reality, way to many kids get special treatment because them and/or their family are a proven entity in terms of being a money maker for a club - it happens almost everywhere to a degree

That's the politics of it. Say your youngest is following up two older sisters who have 10 to 15 years to a club. You have spent an obsene amount over the years and you have a in depth relationship with the directors. Of course this player will get special treatment, and as a consumer you would hope so too. There are politics at play everywhere in life. You gotta learn to play the political game.

I get the whole legacy thing because if you have paid big money for years with other children you are owed something whether deserved or or not.

Three or more kids in the program? That has to be be well over $100,000 even with the synergies listed above by going to some of the same tournaments. Could be approaching $150,000 if they do all the camps and clinics which most motivated families do.

GOD BLESS!! Family must be one of the 1%!!

I would say that this USUALLY only goes so far and USUALLY results in giving the benefit of the doubt rather than a fee pass. Weaker kids will USUALLY eventually move down. I don't have a real problem with this. Compared to parent coaches and other nepotism, this is nothing.

Could it be that these younger kids tend to have picked up a lax stick at the same time they learned to walk,could it be they have had to work harder trying to keep up with their older sisters ,could it be that because of their older sisters they have a partner to practice with,could it be that they have advanced because of the above faster then average, ....of course not it has to be a money thing. You guys are so pathetic.If they have an older sister in the organization they are more likely to stay no matter what team they make, other kids who have no connection are more likely to go to another club if they do not make the team they want.

Just for the record...they are not always going to another club because they didn't make the team that they want. Sometimes they are making the move because the coaching on the lower teams are not what they expected when they signed up with the yellow jacket name!! They might be very happy on the red or green - oh excuse me...2nd blue or yellow...if they were getting what they paid for!!!

I agree that once you are on the yj kool aid the sibling will be a yj lifer too.

Dad will just have to pick up some extra shifts at the steel mill to pay for #2 & #3.

again, I have to say that I am a Liberty parent, so there is no love lost on the Yellow Jackets from my part, That being said the Yellow Jackets are not that costly when it comes to dues for a year. Other clubs are far more expensive, and not nearly as good. and as far as the extra shifts at the steel mill, though I know its a metaphor , sounds a little dramatic.

Spend all the money you want as early as you want. For many kids there is no other option. They will fall hopelessly behind if they can't keep up with the skills. Yet there are always kids that can walk in late, pick up a stick and within a year own the game. Good coaches and directors can spot these kids raw athletics a mile away. All the time and money spent is only going to get your kid so far, the rest and most important part of it, she is born with.

True dat. I've seen it happen.

All the more reason parents shouldn't be coaching in these travel type programs.

Happens all the time to the dismay of parents who feel the roster spot belongs to them because they have been paying into the system for years. So the politics can only get your daughter so far. IMO parents have no place on a pay for play travel team, you have to grin and bear it through town ball, and that is a total joke. Find a team or club with no parent coach, these clubs make enough money they should be able to hire competant, non bias coaches.

Yes, but even with "paid" coaches, politics still come into play. Anywhere you have three or more people, you'll find politics. <shrugging> I do agree that I'd rather have a paid coach in a program I paid for though. He/she may not be totally free of politics but at least he/she isn't wearing parent goggles.

If a coach is paid, a coach could also be fired unlike parents

They also should have the autonomy to bench kids who need benching/attitude adjusting etc.

Unfortunately, sometimes parent coaches have a level of familiarity w/ kids/families that doesn't allow them to be objective. Especially when it comes to talent evaluation as it pertains to infusing new kids into the team...

Just because kids are top of the heap in 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade doesn't mean they are still there in HS... Everyone should start out on equal footing at tryouts every year. Cream always rises to the top, teams should use independent evaluator of talent if parent coach is biased.

"Everyone should start out on equal footing at tryouts every year"
I do not agree.You have kids who have played for a coach for a year or more and have been seen in 20 practices and over 30 games and you want them to be judged by how they do in a 1 1/2 hour try-out. Yes how they do at the try-out has to have some bearing on what team they make but a good coach will also use past experience of the kids he knows to make the roster up.Some kids perform better in practice and others perform better in games.

well what about the girl that did not play for that coach for the past year or 2. Are you saying that a girl, that never played for that coach, is screwed because even if she showed up for tryouts, played harder and better than a established girl.isn't going to get that spot because a coach "knows how she really plays". Thats bull, if a girl cant perform at her peak level for an hour and a half at try outs, than she doesn't deserve that spot. If she cant summon up the effort for try outs maybe she won't for every game and deserves to be demoted ( I say demoted because YJ doesn't cut anybody). But then again , your a yellow jacket , once on a team always on a team your no better than the wave. why even go through the motions if you know who is going to play on a team anyway.

they go through the motions to collect $50 per player in tryouts and then encourage them to go to as many clinics as possible to maintain their roster spot or move up the ladder - have not been following this thread - it's about money!

All of you amaze me. None of your daughters play for YJ so why all of the rambling. You sound silly. what do you care? Why does it bother you sooo much that you need to post about it. Seriously, can you please tell me why you post if you are not part of the club. Obviously 700+ girls and parents felt they should pay the 50.00 to try out. You did not. So what is your problem? Obviously there are several teams at each age because girls and parents choose to play on them....so why does that bother you? Just curious.

libertydad, for the most part I respect what you have to say on this forum but have to respectfully disagree with your last opinion on tryouts. Have a daughter that has tryout for two different clubs. first tryout did all the drills,did them well but when it came to the scrimage part of the tryout failed to touch the ball (open many times but looked off in favor of a teamate or friend)did not make the club. 2nd tryout came with a group of what i would call better players ( based on observations made in games leading up to tryout)that day she was the best player on the field as per most observers. she made the club. so my point is that the tryout is not allways a fair indication of a players true talent when the group is so evenly talented. anyway she chose to play with a smaller club that took her based on her body of work

libertydad do you have a problem with reading comprehension , of course the previous years will and should have an impact.The post you refer to states the tryouts should have some bearing on team selection but not all. If you believe you learn more about a player in a 1 hour tryout then watching a kid play for 2 years you are clueless

Not knowing what clubs you tried out for I can still understand your point. being at most try outs myself, I can guess witch ones your talking about, because most of the better clubs don't run scrimmages for just that reason. It is unfair and to me shows a young inexperienced director that already knows who they want on a roster. In other words , she never had a chance. If I can offer some advice, I have been to Y.J. , 91 , Top Guns, Suffolk County All Stars , Liberty , and F.L.G. , Wave and T.O.G.Z don't have try outs and I have never been to Oilers or Elevate. and I have never seen a director hold a more fair tryout than Liberty ,so if you think your daughters a good player and you want a fair opinion Liberty might be the club for you. And to answer the statements I know are coming , no she doesn't just take Manhasset girls , In fact i've seen her demote some and cut some, something Y.J. doesn't do Express