BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums National Premier Youth Lacrosse League - Spring 2014

I'm not a Crab parent, but are people complaining that Crabs have U13 and U15 players on their teams that might have been held back?

As long as the players are age appropriate, who cares what grade they are in, unless of course teams are playing in lower brackets in tournaments which I don't think the Crabs do

I'm no fan of the Club, but this seems like a silly thing to complain about

hold back players(born before 9/1/99), don't care about debate, it is what it is especially at 15-U level, a year away from playing against older kids anyway, just tired of uninformed debate, i'm sure these numbers are comparable on each team in the league

Madlax - 5
Hard Shells - 6
Crabs - 7

The number of holdbacks on the upper tier U15AA teams are probably pretty consistent with 4 to 8 holdbacks for the Crabs, FCA, Hawks, Madlax, Clue Blue, etc. So it is a relatively level playing field when they are playing each other. But the holdbacks increase the great disparity between the haves and have nots when playing the lesser teams which have less talent to begin with and lack holdbacks.

But, what about the kid that does not make the team due to the holdbacks or does not start / have a prominant role because of the holdbacks.

True, that when they are 17 and the undersized holdback no longer has the advantages that he had at 15 - will balance out. But what about that non-holdback kid that is denied something due to the holdbacks. Just saying!

You miss the point. Anyone playing u-13 or u 15 is not an issue..However, most tournaments now (last three years) are grade based, not age based. So are most recruiting camps --Jake Reid, Philly Invitational, Nat 175, adrenaline...

So, for example, a LI team travels to a 2018 grad year tourney. All players on that team are going have B-dates in 2000 or last month of 99. Or an age appropriate 2018 goes to Jake Reid next week--he is competing against another 2018 kid from MD that is a year older...

At the same time, the crab nation 2018 team is likely to have half of the boys (with 99 bdates, 1st half of 99) making them one year older than the avg LI boy. Why? Because MD folks have created a pattern of reclassifying their kids. It means they repeat 8th grade. Now do you get it? People are gaming the system to have their child look better. I can see why they do it, but it is not for me. Yes, I am a crab parent.

Looks like Crabs parents have more issues than just holding back in 8th grade >>

Thats not always true. We played a team in early fall from wading river and the coaches cursed at the kids, Grabbed the kids by their helmets and jerseys. The kids looked mortified by their coaches, We didn't see the refs stop the game or stop the coaches. So when is the balance between yelling and bullying going to end with lacrosse and other sports. Bullying doesn't make these kids more talented or stronger....it teaches them how to be cowards and how to disrespect others. the game has evolved but not in a good way. [/quote]

Our 2017 plays for a decent team in the Midwest and we were at the Baltimore Summer Kickoff. Same as prior trips up to Baltimore some of our games were competitive and some were not since the teams in the East are really strong. I was very disappointed in the levels of profane and classless behavior by parents in the stands, and what I could hear some of these kids saying on the field. In between those two points are a line of college coaches watching and listening. VLC 2017 and Breakers, nice teams you got there. The rest needs some work in this Mom's opinions. People notice manners, sportsmanship and respect. I realize you have some fancy teams and great players, but I would not want my son playing on your teams or anywhere near your crazy and profane parents. I was embarrassed for you and pray you can do a little better in the future. [/quote]

Our 2017 plays for a decent team in the Midwest and we were at the Baltimore Summer Kickoff. Same as prior trips up to Baltimore some of our games were competitive and some were not since the teams in the East are really strong. I was very disappointed in the levels of profane and classless behavior by parents in the stands, and what I could hear some of these kids saying on the field. In between those two points are a line of college coaches watching and listening. VLC 2017 and Breakers, nice teams you got there. The rest needs some work in this Mom's opinions. People notice manners, sportsmanship and respect. I realize you have some fancy teams and great players, but I would not want my son playing on your teams or anywhere near your crazy and profane parents. I was embarrassed for you and pray you can do a little better in the future. [/quote] [/quote]

2017 didn't have any Crabs teams

It did have teams from NY and NJ which explains the foul mouths

For the NPYLL teams playing U15A for the Greene Turtle this weekend, are they mostly true rising 9th graders (9/1/99 - 8-31/00) or are some of those teams known to have more than a few holdbacks?

Not trying to make a point. Would just be curious for when evaluating the gameplay Saturday. Seems like the D1 kids that left my area for private school all got held back/ reclassified, but no holdbacks on our U15 team - rather a several rising 8th graders playing up.

[/quote]

2017 didn't have any Crabs teams

It did have teams from NY and NJ which explains the foul mouths [/quote]

Ummm, maybe you should read it again. VLC Crabs were mentioned as the foul mouths.

Actually VLC and Breakers were noted as being the nice teams and the poster noted that the rest of the teams needed some help.

Hmmm. My experience has been the exact opposite. Vlc might not be cursing, but the parents are the most arrogant, obnoxious, beer swiggling group of maniacs I've come across.

Hi, Madlax dad!

I would agree, and I am an FCA Dad.

Only on a Lacrosse forum do you yell at people for drinking BEER. I assume they where 21 or older. Lacrosse is becoming a more common game. Us people who only make 100k not 400k are have our kids play this game.

I think you are missing it. People were mentioning above that VLC and Breakers parents were drinking and were profane and classless. Don't speak for some of us people who are not rich who have kids and are families who act with class and sportsmanship. Our club lost some lopsided games to those teams, but we can be proud that our kids and families had sportsmanship and respect.

Please read the original posters comments. In that poster's opinion, VLC and Breakers were the only teams in that writer's opinion, that were behaved.

[quote=Anonymous]Please read the original posters comments. In that poster's opinion, VLC and Breakers were the only teams in that writer's opinion, that were behaved. [/quote

I disagree. The original poster complimented how strong the team on the field is and said the rest -- sportsmanship, class, the drinking and profanity -- needs work. And there does not seem to be a shortage of other posters and parents who agree 100% with that prior sentence. And believe me, the college coaches have noted your families are drunk lunatics. Sober up and show some class as an example to your kids at the next event. Your club should be better than this.

Sincerely, FCA parent.

FCA is one of the biggest reclassification offenders. Their parents are postiive on the sideline and I agree this is important. It is easy when you send your 15 year old Lions out to slaughter 13 year old Lambs.

Your inside the home values are much more important than the values you show off to the rest of the world.

I question the at home values of anyone who asks their 13/14 year old to repeat 8th grade so that they can spend the next few years beating on younger kids while chasing a college sport/admission dream.

Not FCA parent. But this is only the second summer of FCA Baltimore club so they can't much of a history of anything. Is it possible they just have really good players?

The FCA 2017's had 3 '18s playing up this past weekend...while there are a couple, FCA is on the low end of the range with reclassified kids. Please check the birthdates at the next event. While things can get heated between FCA and Breakers (great rivalry, all parents need to keep it in check), I would argue the FCA parents are among the better behaved.

She called a girl a gorilla. Honestly, do you want your daughter anywhere near a person who called your/any girl a gorilla?

The hold back/reclassification myth is just that, a myth. Yes, there are many youth lacrosse players in Baltimore that are old for their grade. This is a direct result of the private schools here aggressively pushing "pre first" years between kindergarten and first grade. Both of my kids did a pre first year and both are old for their grade. However, their birtdays are in the early fall and they are age appropriate for their grades (turning 12 in 6th grade and 14 in 8th grade). Even when they play on grad year teams, they are two of the oldest players on the team. They both play rec and club and know a lot of kids on the other teams. I asked them about this and they know of a total of 4 kids (Breakers, Turtle, FCA, Crabs) that have repeated or are planning to repeat a grade before high school. One did it for academic reasons and the other three are very young for their grade. To continue to assert that holding back/reclassifying is rampant in Baltimore is false.

You can say that if you like, but there is a huge tradition in the private schools in Baltimore and Philly of having 8th grade repeated. It is not a secret and it is not blown out of proportion. the families that choose to re-class their kids, are doing it for a competitive advantage. they readily admit as much. Their argument is valid, giving your child every advantage possible to get him into a better school...

I don't agree with it and haven't done it, but there is no rule against them paying for another year of school...

Sorry to hear that you only know 4 on all those teams. I now of 7 on the crabs 2018 alone.

"Pre-First"? The fact that it actually has a name and standing practice would make it reality... Not myth. Baltimore just has more money to do it.

wow - never thought I would see the day where people would infer that Baltimore is affluent

The irony of class warfare on a Lacrosse site is so so damn funny. Lets talk about all the poor black kids that would take all of our kids spots. You all will be begging for hold back rules for your kids when poor people find a way to play this game. I see it happening every year one rich white family finds a poor kid on there football team and brings them along to Lacrosse practice and start the ball rolling.

Pre first occurs at age 5,6,or 7 - to boys and girls - long before the parents know if the child will ever play lacrosse, or any sport for that matter. A very small number of boys that play lacrosse are repeating middle school grades for the sole purpose of gaining an advantage on the field. The whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion.

Things are already in motion: www.charmcityyouthlax.com

Any Green turtle results?

http://turtlelacrosse.com/Page.asp?n=4395&snid=dILB%5b6D%3FX&org=turtlelacrosse.com

All here

Madlax beat GT in U13A final
Hawks beat Breakers is U13BB final
Bethesda beat FCA in U13B

Bethesda beat their 4 opponents 38-4. Any good reason why the would enter into lowest bracket? They had some big kids and they could play.

Results from website

U11 A Bethesda 10 Greene Turtle 8
U11 B Diamondbacks 12 MD Elite 3
U13 A Madlax 8 Greene Turtle 2
U13 B FCA White 1 Bethesda Orange 8
U13 BB Breakers 6 Hawks 8
U15 B FCA 2 Roughriders 3

Because it is the Bethesda U13B Team. Younger Year U13 Boys. U13A Team did not enter tournament.

Sounds like they should have been in BB, also predominately 2020 kids, but stronger teams, and they could have used one more team.

Green Turtle is a great tournament. Terrific facilities, well run, good refs. typically very good competition, but it seemed down a bit this year. No Crabs, no FCA. Where were they?

Fca had a lot of teams there what tournament where you watching?

Only Hoco had one championship at GT sad npyll to domination over teams

didn't see FCA in 15A or 13A, did they play sunday instead? Dukes HHH?

Maybe FCA is taking the tournament the same way they took Green Turtle's coaches and players.

Whaaaatttttt????

Was this the last year for GT tournament ?