BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

M Jones was NOT a holdback player.

PG is clearly different. It means that the school and the kid said I need to get my grades up to perform in your institution, I have plenty of athletic ability but they want to see me get my grades up. I am not competing against younger kids today, but I will be next year.

It is not cheating.

The point is that the year of age matters alot at 8th grade, but very little after HS. Most kids are fully grown in 12th grade, most are not fully gown at 14 or 15. that is the difference.

Holding back an 8th grader to get a physical advantage over boys in the middle of puberty is cheating. It is common sense and people who do it plainly admit they are doing so to give their kid an advantage. They just dont like the fact that others call them cheaters.

PG is clearly different. It means that the school and the kid said I need to get my grades up to perform in your institution, I have plenty of athletic ability but they want to see me get my grades up. I am not competing against younger kids today, but I will be next year.

It is not cheating.

The point is that the year of age matters alot at 8th grade, but very little after HS. Most kids are fully grown in 12th grade, most are not fully gown at 14 or 15. that is the difference.

Holding back an 8th grader to get a physical advantage over boys in the middle of puberty is cheating. It is common sense and people who do it plainly admit they are doing so to give their kid an advantage. They just dont like the fact that others call them cheaters.

PG is clearly different. It means that the school and the kid said I need to get my grades up to perform in your institution, I have plenty of athletic ability but they want to see me get my grades up. I am not competing against younger kids today, but I will be next year.

It is not cheating.

The point is that the year of age matters alot at 8th grade, but very little after HS. Most kids are fully grown in 12th grade, most are not fully gown at 14 or 15. that is the difference.

Holding back an 8th grader to get a physical advantage over boys in the middle of puberty is cheating. It is common sense and people who do it plainly admit they are doing so to give their kid an advantage. They just dont like the fact that others call them cheaters.

How is it not cheating when North Carolina says to a 9th grader we will give you a spot in the following year's class after you PG. Hardly about grades. They did it this year with a current 2017 from texas who agreed to PG

PG means post grad. After HS is over you do a year at a PG school. Not cheating at all. The kid then goes to college a year later and plays against kids who are older than him. Repeating a year of school in 8th grade to gain an advantage by dropping into the lower grad year is pure cheating.

None of it is cheating - bending the rules YES, cheating NO

These parents do it simply to get the child into a school they would not otherwise be able to attend.

Think about it--
4 years in CHSAA mostly riding the pines behind an upperclassman
Finally senior year you get to play but your league has only teams in it. 50/50 chance of a CHSAA championship. No arguements over brackets and seeding when there are only two teams. Instead, you travel the northeast for a regular season of out of conference friendlies which mean nothing.

You then get to Duke only to ride the pines again or maybe if you are truly good you see the field. NONE of your classmates care. The attendence is tiny despite the strong performance of the team. Heck Duke football (normally a joke - yes they were good this year) draws tens of thousands of fans but lacrosse less than 1,000 for most home games

Five/Six years later your son graduates with a Duke degree thanks to your willingess and resources to bend the rules. I do not see a problem with this - BRAVO

You don't see a problem with this?...There lies the problem!

None of it is cheating - bending the rules YES, cheating NO

These parents do it simply to get the child into a school they would not otherwise be able to attend.

Think about it--
4 years in CHSAA mostly riding the pines behind an upperclassman
Finally senior year you get to play but your league has only teams in it. 50/50 chance of a CHSAA championship. No arguements over brackets and seeding when there are only two teams. Instead, you travel the northeast for a regular season of out of conference friendlies which mean nothing.

You then get to Duke only to ride the pines again or maybe if you are truly good you see the field. NONE of your classmates care. The attendence is tiny despite the strong performance of the team. Heck Duke football (normally a joke - yes they were good this year) draws tens of thousands of fans but lacrosse less than 1,000 for most home games

Five/Six years later your son graduates with a Duke degree thanks to your willingess and resources to bend the rules. I do not see a problem with this - BRAVO

None of it is cheating - bending the rules YES, cheating NO

These parents do it simply to get the child into a school they would not otherwise be able to attend.

Think about it--
4 years in CHSAA mostly riding the pines behind an upperclassman
Finally senior year you get to play but your league has only teams in it. 50/50 chance of a CHSAA championship. No arguements over brackets and seeding when there are only two teams. Instead, you travel the northeast for a regular season of out of conference friendlies which mean nothing.

You then get to Duke only to ride the pines again or maybe if you are truly good you see the field. NONE of your classmates care. The attendence is tiny despite the strong performance of the team. Heck Duke football (normally a joke - yes they were good this year) draws tens of thousands of fans but lacrosse less than 1,000 for most home games

Five/Six years later your son graduates with a Duke degree thanks to your willingess and resources to bend the rules. I do not see a problem with this - BRAVO

My son has not been talked to by any coaches... does this eliminate the opportunity of him going to a division one school to play?

I don't see any rules being bent let alone broken. What rules? Free will baby.

My son has not been talked to by any coaches... does this eliminate the opportunity of him going to a division one school to play?

Yep, its over!! Go take up track (better scholarships anyway)

The coaches definitely know what's going on and they definitely don't care. Why should they? They aren't breaking any rules. You don't win games by standing on a principle.

However, whats troubling about some coaches is how they talk out of both sides of their mouths. They say they don't favor early recruiting, but don't do anything about it. They should simply not say anything. It's insulting. As a group they have the power to come together and influence the process, but there's no incentive for them to do so. The NCAA won't because it's governed by the schools.

Nevertheless, the chorus against early recruiting/reclassing is rising. Bill Tanton 's editorial in this month's Lacrosse Magazine spoke out against early commits and Quint has been vocal. Nothing may ever change, but the spotlight is becoming more focused.

I have to laugh at the chorus against early recruiting. One of my friends kids was one of the early recruits in question. The parents of this kid and the school are all very happy about it. The young man is having a great time on his high school team playing to win and not caring about his personal stats. So tell me what is so bad about that? He has no pressure and so he is working like heck to get good grades for the sake of learning? Anything wrong with that? The college is in constant contact and it seems like they are building a good relationship with their future recruit.

Frankly I think it is all about jealousy from the Maryland and US Lacrosse crowd because if you look closely most of the early recruits were from other areas.

If my kid were good enough to get an offer from a good college we would absolutely encourage him to take it.

By the way I hear from a lot of people that the coaches are also saving some spots on the back end for late bloomers. So it all evens out.

I have to laugh at the chorus against early recruiting. One of my friends kids was one of the early recruits in question. The parents of this kid and the school are all very happy about it. The young man is having a great time on his high school team playing to win and not caring about his personal stats. So tell me what is so bad about that? He has no pressure and so he is working like heck to get good grades for the sake of learning? Anything wrong with that? The college is in constant contact and it seems like they are building a good relationship with their future recruit.

Frankly I think it is all about jealousy from the Maryland and US Lacrosse crowd because if you look closely most of the early recruits were from other areas.

If my kid were good enough to get an offer from a good college we would absolutely encourage him to take it.

By the way I hear from a lot of people that the coaches are also saving some spots on the back end for late bloomers. So it all evens out.

A little perspective would do you guys a lot of good. In less than a decade your sons will be in the real unrelenting world, and some of the trade offs to play high level lacrosse MIGHT be a regret. Who cares if some coaches are saving some spots? If a coach wants to early recruit and close out a 2017 class before these kids finish freshman year, let them. That applies to 3, maybe 4 programs. The money in this sport blows. 12.6 over 45-50 roster spots? I mean, my niece who plays field hockey is better set up for a better scholarship yield than any of our sons will be just by being an average recruit.

Lacrosse is a lousy financial strategy to pay for college. It is not a sport you can make a living on professionally. It is a sport that can get you into a good school. In my experience as a D1 athlete, the burdens on time and my energy meant I didn't make the best grades in college. And that is a very typical thing in D1 sports. If you go to a good one like a Duke or a U Michigan but graduate with a 2.8, you lost all the advantages of a degree from a good school. You are in line behind the 3.3s-4.0s at Duke and Georgetown, and then there are the 4.0 kids from Towson State who worked their way through college. Find me employers that could give a crap about Johnny All-America in any fill-in-the-blank sport, and I would be impressed. Didn't help me, and didn't make much of a difference for the kids I tried to help leaving good schools like Duke and Georgetown where they were student athletes.

If your kid were good enough to get an offer from UNC, then great. But if he is good enough a student to get an Ivy spot...what are you thinking to take UNC?!? If anyone gave an ounce of credibility to some of the posters on this thread, you'd think that kids who are not committed but are being looked at this Summer by Ivies or Notre Dame for example are losers who might as well kill themselves now because it won't/can't get better.

Good thing is if the kid is a good enough lacrosse player, you can get what you want. If you want junior to go to UNC and lax bro out and live with you for a year or two after he graduates looking for someone to bite on his 2.9 GPA and lacrosse resume, then yes...you got what you wanted. Congrats.

A little perspective would do you guys a lot of good. In less than a decade your sons will be in the real unrelenting world, and some of the trade offs to play high level lacrosse MIGHT be a regret. Who cares if some coaches are saving some spots? If a coach wants to early recruit and close out a 2017 class before these kids finish freshman year, let them. That applies to 3, maybe 4 programs. The money in this sport blows. 12.6 over 45-50 roster spots? I mean, my niece who plays field hockey is better set up for a better scholarship yield than any of our sons will be just by being an average recruit.

Lacrosse is a lousy financial strategy to pay for college. It is not a sport you can make a living on professionally. It is a sport that can get you into a good school. In my experience as a D1 athlete, the burdens on time and my energy meant I didn't make the best grades in college. And that is a very typical thing in D1 sports. If you go to a good one like a Duke or a U Michigan but graduate with a 2.8, you lost all the advantages of a degree from a good school. You are in line behind the 3.3s-4.0s at Duke and Georgetown, and then there are the 4.0 kids from Towson State who worked their way through college. Find me employers that could give a crap about Johnny All-America in any fill-in-the-blank sport, and I would be impressed. Didn't help me, and didn't make much of a difference for the kids I tried to help leaving good schools like Duke and Georgetown where they were student athletes.

If your kid were good enough to get an offer from UNC, then great. But if he is good enough a student to get an Ivy spot...what are you thinking to take UNC?!? If anyone gave an ounce of credibility to some of the posters on this thread, you'd think that kids who are not committed but are being looked at this Summer by Ivies or Notre Dame for example are losers who might as well kill themselves now because it won't/can't get better.

Good thing is if the kid is a good enough lacrosse player, you can get what you want. If you want junior to go to UNC and lax bro out and live with you for a year or two after he graduates looking for someone to bite on his 2.9 GPA and lacrosse resume, then yes...you got what you wanted. Congrats.

Of all the 2017's commited what are the top three "schools" that these players are headed to?

A little perspective would do you guys a lot of good. In less than a decade your sons will be in the real unrelenting world, and some of the trade offs to play high level lacrosse MIGHT be a regret. Who cares if some coaches are saving some spots? If a coach wants to early recruit and close out a 2017 class before these kids finish freshman year, let them. That applies to 3, maybe 4 programs. The money in this sport blows. 12.6 over 45-50 roster spots? I mean, my niece who plays field hockey is better set up for a better scholarship yield than any of our sons will be just by being an average recruit.

Lacrosse is a lousy financial strategy to pay for college. It is not a sport you can make a living on professionally. It is a sport that can get you into a good school. In my experience as a D1 athlete, the burdens on time and my energy meant I didn't make the best grades in college. And that is a very typical thing in D1 sports. If you go to a good one like a Duke or a U Michigan but graduate with a 2.8, you lost all the advantages of a degree from a good school. You are in line behind the 3.3s-4.0s at Duke and Georgetown, and then there are the 4.0 kids from Towson State who worked their way through college. Find me employers that could give a crap about Johnny All-America in any fill-in-the-blank sport, and I would be impressed. Didn't help me, and didn't make much of a difference for the kids I tried to help leaving good schools like Duke and Georgetown where they were student athletes.

If your kid were good enough to get an offer from UNC, then great. But if he is good enough a student to get an Ivy spot...what are you thinking to take UNC?!? If anyone gave an ounce of credibility to some of the posters on this thread, you'd think that kids who are not committed but are being looked at this Summer by Ivies or Notre Dame for example are losers who might as well kill themselves now because it won't/can't get better.

Good thing is if the kid is a good enough lacrosse player, you can get what you want. If you want junior to go to UNC and lax bro out and live with you for a year or two after he graduates looking for someone to bite on his 2.9 GPA and lacrosse resume, then yes...you got what you wanted. Congrats.

in looking at the list of 2017's committed its tough to name only three. IMO in no set order, UVA, Mich, Bucknell, UPENN. Gotta throw Air Force in there also. Acceptance & Grad rate tells the story on the above mentioned.

Why is the common response always "jealous" if you do not agree with early recruitment? To think any 2017 is a lock to see the field when he enters college is a ridiculous statement. In three years before he gets there as a college freshman much can happen including recruiting a better player. Do you think colleges stopped looking because they have a commitment to players. They are always looking for better. Good for any student athlete who gets an early commit. But, colleges are recruiting too early. This should be regulated by the NCAA. This early recruiting will hurt colleges down the road and in ten years the programs will see the effect.

Any 2017 mapping out his future who is determined and motivated I see great for him! Too many high school students lack that direction and purpose for success. What starts now will continue throughout life in all areas.

Denver was not a relative no name. With bill tierney coaching that team they were considered an up and coming team when they showed up at bethpage and beat duke. If you realize anything about lacrosse here on Long Island the tierney name means quite a bit. The only surprise is that Denver only has two Long Island players on the team. A former st Anthony player and a levittown goalie. Has everyone forgotten were bill tierney came the news paper did when they printed no Long Island ties to Denver last week in the paper.

No tryout, but I heard next year 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 20121 teams all coming. I like what they do and how they do it. Small program but do it right.

Does anyone know if there is going to be a Be the Best tryout this year for 2017?

They do it right by being honest and telling you excatly what you are getting. 9 mids, 6 attack, 6 defense, 2 goalies. You know going in. You don't show up after paying because you only had 24 hours to make a decision and find out there are 12 mids 8 attack 8 defense and 2 goalies. The coaches are solid good guys who know the game, played the game and have been coaching for 25+ years on all levels. They only have 2 teams this year but I always hear good things about them. They do winter workouts, spring league and then solid summer schedule and it doesnt cost you an arm and a leg. I may try to track them down this weekend and get more info. They are playing in the JDRF.