BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

Such negativity! Can't bear to have the discussion move away from your precious section 8 and 11 boys?

Is there any one place where I can find each school's roster listing each players' class? Every school is different and some schools publish the info and some don't. MSGVarsity and Maxpreps are also inconsistent. There is an opportunity for BackoftheCage. Thanks.

Amusing article in Deadspin "Why Rich Lacrosse Parents Are Making Their Kids Repeat A Grade"

http://deadspin.com/why-rich-lacrosse-parents-are-making-their-kids-repeat-1570381983

Makes me sick to my stomach to read this. We all know it has been going on. Less so in LI and NJ, but still goes on. Prevalent in Maryland and D.C., and in Philly to a lessor extent. Not sure what they are teaching their kids in terms of life lessons but who am I to quesiton it.

Actually, I don't find it amusing having a 2017 kid who will graduate at 17 :-(

Great quote in the article from a Maryland parent who decided against reclassifying, emphasis mine:

"There's no social reason, emotional reason, or academic reason they're [redshirting]," the parent says. "It's to have an advantage physically over everybody else. IT'S INSTITUTIONALIZED CHEATING, and it's everywhere, and the thing that's troubling is everybody's closing their eyes"

Straight from a MD lacrosse proud parent of a 2017 who is 14 and is a strong player/recruit, THIS IS AWESOME. Time for this fraud to get outed. The dopes and real losers are the NCAA coaches who don't look at the birth dates when recruiting the 9th graders who drive home from school already.

Couldn't agree more. How do coaches not evaluate that these kids have 1 more year of mental and physical maturity, 1 more year of getting used to showcases, etc., 1 more year of playing. I think the answer is they just don't care unfortunately.

Are you serious? Going on at an epidemic level in the Philly preps schools. Also out of control in Mass as well. 3d actually promoting the practice at their camps and teams.

Really??? I think they know too well the birth date but just don't care....There is an incentive for coaches to take holdbacks and nothing preventing them from doing so. Please let's not make this into a discussion about how the coaches are duped on birthdates.....because that is nonsense. They know what they are getting.

How are the dopes/losers the NCAA coaches? They are recruiting the best athletes many times in these cases they are the more physically developed players, they could care less what age they graduate HS, as long as they can get them wins. Thank you US Lacrosse for cow-towing to the Baltimore elite;you finally found a way to spread lacrosse,have kids outside of the tri-state area play down.

I see the point that the coaches are getting the MD parents to underwrite a redshirt year. The MD parents must also understand their bet. Best you can hope for in this sport is a fractional scholarship. So money wise, the scholarship money the kid gets over 4 years will be about what is put into a year of prep school tuition. If a MD parent bets well, the kid gets into a better school than without being a lacrosse recruit. But what if after the extra year of private school the kid goes to UMass, Denver, etc. and not Penn, Princeton, etc.? Suicide anyone???

Suicide? No. The bet is to play D1 lacrosse. From there it's Ivy's or ACC first, then so on. One thing it's not about is the scholarship money.

The coaches definitely know what's going on and they definitely don't care. Why should they? They aren't breaking any rules. You don't win games by standing on a principle.

However, whats troubling about some coaches is how they talk out of both sides of their mouths. They say they don't favor early recruiting, but don't do anything about it. They should simply not say anything. It's insulting. As a group they have the power to come together and influence the process, but there's no incentive for them to do so. The NCAA won't because it's governed by the schools.

Nevertheless, the chorus against early recruiting/reclassing is rising. Bill Tanton 's editorial in this month's Lacrosse Magazine spoke out against early commits and Quint has been vocal. Nothing may ever change, but the spotlight is becoming more focused.

Honestly, a parent would not be disappointed if after years of private schools their kid went to Zoo Mass to play lacrosse. Really?

Lots of great schools outside of the Ivy's. Besides, private school alone doesn't guarantee Ivy admission. That angle has actually gotten much more difficult in recent years. Today, it might actually be better to be a standout student and a good athlete in a public school if you want Ivy.

Back to the point, "wealthy parents" paying for private school or a PG year aren't doing it for a scholarship. It's for the chance to get their kid a D1 slot. As for Ivy, which by the way don't offer athletic scholarships, if that's the motivation for a PG, then you need to know where your kid stands with a target institution before going through the effort.

Can anyone tell me if there is a 2017 Long Island Sting because I was on their website and they go to very good tournaments.

The people who get fired up about this issue do so bc for the vast majority of them they don't have the option to reclassify. If given the chance most would do it. The moral high ground argument is nonsense.

I have a talented 7th grader. How do I do this on LI?

I do not think so- not too many kids would be keen on switching schools, leaving their friends and adding another year to their school life, all by themselves. If it were more predominant, maybe kids would be more apt to do so, but since it is not something that occurs in our area for the sport of lacrosse, it is not really a financial decision. A few do so in hockey, but it is far and few between, and even those kids have not had a great experience. On top of that, many MS and HS kids in LI are advanced a year in multiple curriculum areas, as the whole school is advanced, not just individuals. By the end of 8th grade they have taken many 9th grade courses. To move your child to a private prep school and have them repeat 8th grade, they would most likely be taking 2 years worth of courses over, as they were taking 8th grade classes in 7th grade at their public school. They would in essence be taking 2 years worth of courses again. One of my sons is a top student, and is in a school where they advance all the students in 3 subject areas and he would not want to reclassify. Not all LI schools do this, but a good handful of your better schools, with good lacrosse programs that do. PLus, there is plenty of money on LI, there is certainly more to it then money.

Absolutely not true.

This might be news to you, but some people really do have a moral compass. Some people also know what it means to work hard to achieve.

Here you go--- assuming your 7th grader is currently 12 or 13 years old....
A Few Easy Steps (but start now!):
1) Have your kid complete 8th grade at his current school
2) Pay $28+g to go to Friends, Buckley, Waldorf, Portledge, GreenVale (or any similar independent private school).
3) Have your child REPEAT 8th GRADE at one of the above (reclassify your child to the year below his actual birth/academic age for travel / club lacrosse).
4) Let club team coaches know your 2019 kid is REALLY now a 2020 kid.
5) Bring your kid to as many showcases as possible so that he/she can compete against kids 1 year (or more) younger.
6) Now, submit to the high school entrance process, take necessary tests, etc.
7) Then choose a nice Catholic (CHS,STA,KEL) or Private(FA) and have them enter as a Freshman.
8) The child will be "Noticed" as standout Freshman and be rewarded with a premium spot on the lax team (possibly a jump to JV or Varsity) and play 4 years of HS.
9) The College Recruiting Process will be in full swing during all this... go to an many showcases and talk to coaches; also start exploring the costs of a Post Grad year at Deerfield, Salisbury, Avon, etc.
10 ) Accept offer to D1 Lacrosse Program (partial scholarship)to enter as a Freshman in 2021 (at age 20) two years AFTER your next door neighbors kid who is the same age.
11 ) Embark on a Red Shirt Freshman year.
12 ) Finally your child competes in his/her first meaningful college game at age 21.
13 ) Your child graduates in 2026 (at age 24 - 25)

What is also very important is that your child must be bigger, faster and act more mature than any other 12-13 year old that they face once they've reclassified because they will actually be 1 year (OR MORE) older...and you want to make sure they stand out in their new "MAGIC" age group.

Also, fairness and honesty and respect for fair competition must be forgotten... and don't ever think of it as cheating.

Sleep well.

And all of that to possibly get partial tuition. Still have to save 120K to cover the difference.

Thanks so much I will start to put my ducks in a row now.

Here you go--- assuming your 7th grader is currently 12 or 13 years old....
A Few Easy Steps (but start now!):
1) Have your kid complete 8th grade at his current school
2) Pay $28+g to go to Friends, Buckley, Waldorf, Portledge, GreenVale (or any similar independent private school).
3) Have your child REPEAT 8th GRADE at one of the above (reclassify your child to the year below his actual birth/academic age for travel / club lacrosse).
4) Let club team coaches know your 2019 kid is REALLY now a 2020 kid.
5) Bring your kid to as many showcases as possible so that he/she can compete against kids 1 year (or more) younger.
6) Now, submit to the high school entrance process, take necessary tests, etc.
7) Then choose a nice Catholic (CHS,STA,KEL) or Private(FA) and have them enter as a Freshman.
8) The child will be "Noticed" as standout Freshman and be rewarded with a premium spot on the lax team (possibly a jump to JV or Varsity) and play 4 years of HS.
9) The College Recruiting Process will be in full swing during all this... go to an many showcases and talk to coaches; also start exploring the costs of a Post Grad year at Deerfield, Salisbury, Avon, etc.
10 ) Accept offer to D1 Lacrosse Program (partial scholarship)to enter as a Freshman in 2021 (at age 20) two years AFTER your next door neighbors kid who is the same age.
11 ) Embark on a Red Shirt Freshman year.
12 ) Finally your child competes in his/her first meaningful college game at age 21.
13 ) Your child graduates in 2026 (at age 24 - 25)

What is also very important is that your child must be bigger, faster and act more mature than any other 12-13 year old that they face once they've reclassified because they will actually be 1 year (OR MORE) older...and you want to make sure they stand out in their new "MAGIC" age group.

Also, fairness and honesty and respect for fair competition must be forgotten... and don't ever think of it as cheating.

Sleep well.[/quote]


And all of that to possibly get partial tuition. Still have to save 120K to cover the difference. [/quote]


Well, that $120k extra is well worth it when your kid graduates from an IVY or ACC school you wouldn't have gotten into otherwise and earns six figures plus a year in income for the rest of his life

After making my way through your boring sarcasm I see a plan that makes perfect sense. Outside of NY because of the the late school cutoff if I had a promising athlete why wouldn't I want him to compete at the highest level? These showcases you're referring to will and do have kids 18 to 24 months older. I'm not gonna just sit back and watch his dreams go by the wayside and think a 14 yr old can compete with a 17 yr old? And I certainly won't care what my neighbors do or anyone else for that matter. You simple minded peeps can keep your head in the sand and continue to whine while I PREPARE my young son to reach his dreams. And btw, hope you're enjoying the tournament. You might want to check out some birthdates of the kids playing. Actually, don't bother. Just keep whining on this forum. It's entertaining!!

And all of that to possibly get partial tuition. Still have to save 120K to cover the difference. [/quote]


Well, that $120k extra is well worth it when your kid graduates from an IVY or ACC school you wouldn't have gotten into otherwise and earns six figures plus a year in income for the rest of his life [/quote]


If you think in today's economy that an Ivy League education is an automatic ticket to riches you are seriously mistaken and heading for a huge letdown. That was the story 25 years ago. Nowadays it remains a huge leg up with networking, prestige, etc. but not the slam dunk it once was. Trust me, if you slide through as a lax bro with a 2.5 GPA you are more likely to be working summer camps and teaching private lessons after graduation then opening your own hedge fund.

Well, that $120k extra is well worth it when your kid graduates from an IVY or ACC school you wouldn't have gotten into otherwise and earns six figures plus a year in income for the rest of his life [/quote]


If you think in today's economy that an Ivy League education is an automatic ticket to riches you are seriously mistaken and heading for a huge letdown. That was the story 25 years ago. Nowadays it remains a huge leg up with networking, prestige, etc. but not the slam dunk it once was. Trust me, if you slide through as a lax bro with a 2.5 GPA you are more likely to be working summer camps and teaching private lessons after graduation then opening your own hedge fund. [/


Nothing is an automatic ticket, which is why you have to stack the deck in your favor when you can to improve your odds best you can.

I'd rather my kid make it into an Ivy on academics and not because of lax skills. If his lax skills help- great, but he'll have a great many opportunities if he has more than just his lax going for him. If a kid is retained and doesn't get recruited, do you think the better schools will be interested in him/her? You can look at the positive side, but don't forget the risks as well.

Why don't you enlighten the simple minded of us?

Quick snapshot of Duke's key offense players

Josh Dionne – 23 year old senior born in April (held back)
Folwer – 22 yr old sr born in dec (older end)
Jordan wolf - 22 yr old sr born in dec (older end)
Matheis – sophomore born in oct (held back)
Deemer class – soph, 21 in June (held back)
Myles jones – soph turned 21 in march (held back)

I'll let someone else look at the other rosters.

Sickening and disgusting cheaters who I will not repect the achievements of.

Unbelievable!! I wouldn't want my child to be living in a dorm room at 23. My 23 year old was a Div.1 athlete and is living and working in NYC for 2 years already. To each their own...

Myle Jones did a PG year, probably due to academics to get him into Duke. That is why he is 21 yr. old soph. I wouldn't consider him a hold back. No different than a redshirt year.

Duke must have stopped listing the players date of birth on the player bio. DOB is listed for upperclassman but not for any of freshmen.

I wonder why Duke stopped listing DOB for the freshmen class?

Considering that all of the freshman came out of private or prep schools I would imagine that there are some holdbacks or older kids in the class.

Can someone list a bench warmer on one of Dukes past few years teams who is making $100k.

M Jones was NOT a holdback player.

Haven't heard much about this. Anyone going?

Why is a PG year different than reclassing at a younger age?
Why is a non medical redshirt year different than reclassing or holding back at a younger age?