BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2018 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

Sounds like you might have held your own kid back, and it didn't work out like you hoped. The condescending tone in your post wreaks of guilt... Why would you be embarrassed by folks who want to follow the rules, create a level playing field and weed out people who are gaming the system? All us "whiners" play by the rules, honor the game and have taught our children about ethics, integrity, and self respect. Sadly, when you stand up for these values, people like you in our society can't offer a retort, so your only response is to castigate them as a whiner. Folks, those who have daughters, beware of this type of upbringing. A man with no moral values...

AFAIK they have two. Sorry I didn't answer you sooner, I have a life that prevents me from answering you when you expect it. Some of you LI parents give the sport a bad name.

I won't talk about the Maryland clubs because I don't know, nor do I care about how they run their programs.

It isn't really surprising that the Philly kids blossom late. Unlike the town programs on Long Island the ones in the Philly area are staffed mostly by parents that have little to no playing experience. My sons club is one of the better ones in the area and 70% of the coaches in the program have no playing experience. Because we have the blind leading the blind in many cases our kids generally lag two to three years behind the LI kids in terms of stick skills and lacrosse IQ. By the time they get to middle school that difference shrinks considerably.

The real difference is that in general we have better athletes. The city of Philly is a wasteland for lacrosse. All the good players come from the counties just outside the city. If you look at population densities it is similar to LI but if you look at the number of kids from those burbs playing in the NFL, MLB AND THE NBA those numbers dwarf the number of LI kids in those leagues. I'm sure that will ruffle so e feathers here but it is what it is. If you disagree with that statement feel free to Mike Chanenchuk as he has no problems admitting it.

You're completely wrong about the U15 championship. The lost to the tournament champions 3d in the semi's 10-7 with a team that had 100% of their roster composed of entirely of 2017 players. On the other hand every single Long Island player who made the all tournament team was a rising sophomore (David Confort, Matt Glavin, Ryan Rogers and Steve Cuccurullo). I'm sure those four were the only 2016 Long Island players at the tournament. If you're gonna spout crap you had better know your facts.

You LI parents should consider yourselves lucky that you only have to compete with the reclassed kids in tournaments. Imaging having to compete with them on a daily basis. Not just for recrutimg spots but for regular roster spots year in and year out. Kuddos to those few MD kids who play on the proper age/ grade and excell. They will be the winners in the long run!

yes, all the cheaters go back to the same thing--call LI parents whinners and say that li gives game a bad name...cheating is what gives the game a bad name and apparently philly following md...

or if you believe the other philly guy, they just have better athletes...

if that was the case, there would be no reason to cheat...

We do .... on LI the hold-backs are in every grade, in every sport, all through MS and HS. It's not just the grade based lax tournaments.

There is only one Philly guy in this thread and it's me. Call me crazy but all I've read in this thread is a bunch unsubstantiated b.s. About Dukes is how they have to cheat to compete with the mighty and morally superior Long Island kids. If that's what you need to feel better about yourself have at it. The Dukes team that played in the U15 national championship were all rising freshmen. All the Long Island kids that I cared to look up we're rising Sophomores. It seems like someone needs to use overaged players to compete and it isn't the Dukes. I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air. Feel free to look up the rosters from the tournament and google the players names. The Long Island clubs aren't as squeaky clean as you want to pretend they are.

You should learn your facts before you as you put it "spout your crap"! I know for a fact the boy from the Turtles is a TRUE 2017 yes a TRUE 2017, that would be a 1999 birthday in case you are not sure.

You are Wrong! Check your facts before you "spout your crap" the Turtles kid is a True 2017 with a 1999 birthday!

Who cares?

Hey philly guy, the question is how old were those rising freshman? I am sure they were the same age as the rising sophs, given the fact that your team, as you admitted above, has lots of reclassed kids...

Saw the Jesters 2018 Black team play this evening and they are solid. They held their own perfectly vs 9th & 10th grade kids from Farmingdale and Port Washington. Wouldn't say they are AA but they are good A team.

Dude - I hope you are not a lawyer because you just made the opposition case, in a U15 age based tournament the philly team were all 9th grade while LI was all 10th grade - that does not mean that the long island kids were older, everybody was the same age - U15 - it meant that the philly kids were the same age but a year behind in school.

You got me on that one superstar. What about the other three? I just bothered to look at the four LI kids that made the all tournament team. I'd bet if I found the rosters that US lacrosse put up before the tournament and went through them i'd bet the mortgage that those three kids weren't the only overaged Long Island kids in the tournament. It's funny I've heard all sorts of untruthful [lacrosse] about how Dukes sent a team with overaged players and yet no here one can name a single Dukes player who isn't a 2017, kid and yet I managed to name three Long Island kids who are 2016's with 2 minutes of research.

Instead of getting all pissy because I screwed up by misidentifying the Cuccurullo kid why don't you have the stones to acknowledge that most of the posters here are full of crap on the subject. Am I wrong about the graduating years of Gavin, Rogers and Confort or would you just prefer to ignore they truth and live in your fantasy world where you guys are the best thing that ever happened to lacrosse and everyone else has to cheat to be competitive?

I hope you guys don't represent the typical LIE, Team 91 or Turtles parent because that would be embarrassing.

Good god please point out where I admitted that Dukes had lots of reclassified kids. We don't and I've said it several times in this thread, but I'll play your game.

I have read that Dukes (not true) and the Crabs (don't care) uses lots of overage players in this thread and the Long Island teams don't. Well that simply isn't true. You can deny it all you want but explain why the LIE had at least three 2016's playing in a national tournament for kids who should be in 2017?

You guys don't get to wag your finger and pretend to be morally superior when you aren't.

Are you that stupid? Read what you are typing! You are proving the point everyone is trying to make. Are they 2016's? YES you moron, are they older than your 2017's and possibly some of your 2018's? NO!!!! why? because they were not held back!!! Therefore they went to school a year or 2 earlier than many of the kids on your team. They are NOT older and not cheating! Every player had to give their birth certificate! you can't be serious????

BTW they were missing a couple of key high scoring starters last night... They have beaten JV travel teams. Agreed, they aren't AA and don't bill themselves as such. They will play anybody, anytime including any AA team.

Philly dad, you are proving the point. LI kids playing age appropriate in this tourny, and graduating in the year they should while your kids playing a year down (or at least a bunch of them). why dont you get it?

Dukes/Philly dad, here's the point. The 2018 Dukes team has several boys who are a year or more older than the oldest players on Xtreme 2018, or Team Long Island for that matter. Those few boys are very important to the Dukes team, which I saw play several times this year; it is very obvious who the boys are. It's not about cheating, or reclassifying - it's a simple point about age, and your team is a lot older. That didn't seem to bother Xtreme very much this Fall when they beat you 10-5, and yes Xtreme has a lot of boys who play football and also had kids out due to injury. When you come on this thread and pound your chest about how good and young Dukes is, you're going to get Long Island push back, because the LI teams you play against are a lot younger, even if they're all in the same grade. We're happy to play you, and the games are great - just spare us the excuses when you lose and the blather about how young the team is.

Ethics, Honor for the game???? The crazy amount of f-bombs dropped by LI parents, yelling at refs and even some parents running on the field...please dont preach ethics and honor! Just because little Johnny isn't winning is no reason to whine, complain and act like poor sportsman. My kid is in Md, age appropriate and can handle himself..no complaints

Please stop complaining about a few bad li parents, we agree, they exist. However, I watched the same poor behavior being displayed by parents at every event by every team. Lots of loud obnoxious parents at young gunz last year. seems rude parents are all over (md, li, philly, texas, CA), every team has a few and you all know those on your son's team that fit the bill...

If you dont want to hear li parents complaining about your md teams cheating by holding back kids, stay on the md thread...

Please stop complaining about the hold-back issue...there are a few, Crabs probably the highest percentage. Most boys are age appropriate and on many of the clubs the oldest aren't always the best. The arguement gets old and it won't go away. Some parents think it offers a competitive advantage and if that is how they choose to spend their $ so be it.

I thought it was a violation of BOTC rules to use the name of any kid......What's up with this whole discussion and the reference to particular players by name???

Fair question although we believe that the discussion is still "in bounds". The actual Board Rules on the subject state the following.

Named Individuals : Identifying youth players in a negative or attacking manner by name will not be permitted. Be mindful that such posts will be removed and/or editted by the BOTC Moderators. Identification of adults in posts should be accompanied with substantiated facts and details.

BOTC has not seen the discussion as being negative or attacking the individual players.

How about false claims about the boys? This time it is his age whats next? Are all false claims ok? No minors name should be allowed to be used at all, who is to say what the kids parents views as negative or not. Minors names should be omitted.

If you have evidence that information posted on the board is incorrect, you can send us your documentation, post numbers in question, and an explanation to cagesage@backofthecage.com.

Minors names appear in numerous places on BOTC - just like they do on newspaper web sites, club team web sites, school district web sites, tournament web sites, and more. If you want to police the display of minors name, take that one up with those organizations first.

At the end of the day, BOTC moderates hundreds of posts per day in line with our published policy and we allow those questioning our process to write us. That said, we absolutely do not allow anonymous posters to call out how or what BOTC should be allowing.

Catholic High School acceptance letters for class of 2018 were sent earlier this week and received by many/most today ...

Chaminade and St. Anthony's will be loaded as usual.

How many 2018's went down to 3D Blue Chip this weekend to compete in the South region.

Would LI players like to compete against AL,FL,GA,LA,TN,MS for a spot on Jake Reed. Of course they would. Think about the lack of competition. Sorry its just facts. If you cant compare them sisde by side with Mid Atlantic region which will be stacked then very tough to compare apples to apples.

Decades back, Detroit laughed at overseas competition in the auto industry.

Years back, technology and IT staffers laughed at the prospect of an emerging off-shore push.

The point is simple. The Long Island and Maryland strangle-hold on recruiting scholarships will eventually decay as other regions begin to move into the competition. Think about it.

Cage I agree but what people or parents do is avoid the better competition. Come on, your a good attackman and you have that Big D man from extreme on you he makes you look OK. Now you go down and work a weak D man and you look great. As much as the evaluators try and make selections over all the regions when great players go against weak comp they look even better. I do agree as more athletes get involved and ex big lax guys living in other states really get lacrosse going the comp will get better but that in my opinion 5 to 10 years away. You have Cali and Texas and a few others putting out some good teams but those are just one or two strong teams. Could you imagine if LI actually put together a real select elite team. I mean the best players from Extreme, Express, Team LI etc. WOW.

Please go to the 3d website before you make a comment like this. You would find out that you missed a few states for this camps "South region". like MD, Va, NC. This in fact is the toughest week. So if you are from LI your playing every stud and holdback from these three states. Now go to the website and look who LI will be competing against next week?

The scenario you depict is already here. There are very few LI kids, many no LI kids. If you think just because your son is good LI lax kid he's got a D1 slot in the bag, you are grossly mistaken. The athletes being selected from other parts of the country are kids who 10 years ago would have been looking for D1 football scholarships. The party is over. I promise you. BTW I am a LI parent.

I understand what your saying but let's not jump the gun. If you combine the LI, and NY area players in D1 lax I believe it's over 20% of players. What I was originally stating is that LI parents don't want their kids to go against LI kids because the competition is too hard. So going to the South region is a lot easier than actually going to the Mid Atlantic region.

First things first I emphasized the weaker states for a reason. LI will be competing against PA, New [lacrosse], and LI, DE, and NJ. Would you compare these areas to the south. It's not football. The states I mentioned lacrosse is relatively a new sport. The states LI are competing against have long histories in the sport. It's just fact. And I did go to the 3D website. I find it interesting that so many LI players don't go down during their region tryout to avoid LI competition.

Sitting in LarryMiller airport after a weekend of 3d lacrosse. You must remember that there is no allocation of spots form each region. The National Evaluators will pick the best of all of the regions combined. 3d has this system down. They can evaluate over 5 weekends and pick the out those 5 weekends. Just because a kid dominates in a "weaker" region doesn't mean he will make the national cut. That said, talent level in the South region was very high in this age group. New sport or not, there are very good athletes from down south who can handle a stick.

So the top LI Kids are going down to compete against Kids they have seen and beat regularly in local tournaments? And not compete against the "other" hot bed MD kids?

I saw 6-7 2018 Express players at 3D. They were solid players, but they certainly did not dominate the "weak" southern competition.

My son was assigned to the North East vs Mid Atlantic. No ducking just assigned. Would prefer to be there with LI competition and not on Super Bowl weekend.