BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2018 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

If I may.............3D Lacrosse does and will continue to dominate the club lacrosse arena in the few areas that it runs programs, and those areas that are completely undeserved by other organizations and that is why they will continue to dominate in those areas in the years to come!!! exclamation point! I will be impressed when they come into an established, traditional and mature lacrosse market and dominate.

With appropriate age based teams, not reclassified hold backs.

Times have changed and are continuing to change sonny. My guess is you were a HS standout back in the early 80s. In such a short time, 3D has been the poster child of youth/club lacrosse and where it is headed. Look at the way they run their business model, its a corporation. Look how they branded the name and franchised it to other areas, look at the way they teach their players the combination of box and field hybrid training...their kids, while smaller in numbers today but growing, are much more skilled as a group compared to LI players. In fact, so much that 91 and fl$, even TLI (who cares about Express) are trying to copy their training methodologies by incorporating more box...this is the honest truth...it's copy cat business, but one that 3d is at the forefront of. Look at the number of box leagues, clinics, etc. that are popping up all over LI. As for the achievements, well you can't disguise the truth and facts...again, in such a short time....U15 Lax National Champs, Blue Chip/3D, 8 of their class of 16 were selected to the top 25 HS sophomores....8!....if 3D ever opens up a LI chapter I feel sorry for all the LI club teams...Period.

if my memory serves correct, did fl$ not have 2 of the 4 2018 kids go last year?

Xtreme played 3D New England a few weeks ago up in Boston. Nice team, older kids, same result..

Yes you are correct and one of the 2 didnt deserve to be there. There are and were many better goalies in 2017 age group that should have been selected last year. Another perfect example of who you know.

A little confused...are you talking 2017 or 2018? fl$ or Brine goalies? Did your son make it this year?

Refering to the quote at top in box. fl$ had 2 2018 players that were selected to play on last years Brine team. Saying that there were some very good 2017 goalies at tryout but a 2018 was chosen.

Once again an adult passing judgement on a 12 (now 13) year old - you are one tough anonymous dude......loser

This site is completely biased to those that spend their advertising dollars. Larry Miller or whoever else moderates this site has had no experience with the brine tryouts or national games and does not have first hand experience to publically cast judgement.

This would be incorrect. Very incorrect. BOTC has inside experience with the Brine event which is why we know about the "coaching selection" process that was taking place.

As you can read, many of the parents felt bilked on both the 2017 and 2018 threads; you are in the minority. BOTC will pass judgement publicly on any situation with which we have first hand experience including this one.

Do you have any idea how many parents have written to us asking that BOTC intervene on their behalf to secure refunds for their Brine tryout fees? The fact is that this was NOT a BOTC event and as a result, we are not able to take up this chase on their behalf.

No, this is about selections to Brine being made just because of team affiliation or last name or whatever reason other than talent.

Your joking right. This event is so predetermined and nothing is based on the tryout. Why should the have a tryout when most selections aren't even made off of it. Been around this event enough to see if your teams coach is one of the main evaluators there is a pretty good chance your getting selected regardless of how you did at tryouts. Money grab. If I were Brine lacrosse I would reevaluate who I had running this event because my name is getting tarnished.

you can criticize the selection process without calling out an individual 13 year old boy Mr Anonymous ChickenS&%t

Actually I am 14 and tired of others getting free pass. This was the perfect example of the selection process. Only 3 goalies in last years 2017 pool were good. Please give me the response. There were plenty of goalies at last years tryout. It just shows the biased selection process. Facts and examples.

Changing topic. How are the A teams outside the elites? These elite teams seem crowded. I would prefer my son playing on a team that was just very good. Teams like the Outlaws, Jesters, fl$, etc. What's better 20+ minutes playing with kids that are very good and jare cosched well. Or playing very limited and be on an elite?

IMHO - I would rather have my son on the best team possible with the best coaches possible, the summer is all about getting better, and you get better in practice and practicing against better players not in games. Having said that, after Xtreme, TLI and Terps I think that the next best teams are 91 white, outlaws and fl$, so many new teams are popping up that until you get into the summer you don't know who is going to be competitive, always pick coaches not organizations

I can agree and disagree, but that's why it is an interesting debate. However, what if you're son is unhappy because he isn't seeing the field. It is sort of like HS already, but here you can change teams...

I agree with this, it is better to get the best training, more play time or equal play time is worthless if the player is not taught how to position and proper skills.

It depends on the particular summer - the 2018s are now considered rising freshmen. The goal of this particular summer is to begin to get exposure and prepare him to play on the big stage

Brine, Jake Reed etc.. are good because they are not real recruiting events this year, but as individual showcases simulate the big stage at events for individuals. This gives your son has a leg up in what to expect in the fall of 9th grade and the following summer.

There will be coaches on some sidelines this summer. If your boy is on the bench, he is not getting looked at. If your boy's team is at the wrong tournaments he is not getting looked at regardless of how much he plays. Both club affiliation AND playing time are therefore important

These are still boys and not men, it is too early to have these concerns, but it is reality if your boy aspires to play high level D1 5 years from now

Totally 100% disagree. My son has played on one of the Elite teams in the past. Was a second line player, he wanted to leave after one season. Hated the constant pressure to be perfect all the time at 12 yo. In his words "why is every game like the NCAA finals"? He is now on a very competitive A team and plays more than enough. To correct the poster above, you do not get better just practicing. You need to actually play in games against the best competition. His team won't beat the top two teams, but he get's to play against that competition all the time. As a result, he is playing confident, and playing the best lacrosse he has ever played. This is what will help him compete in the showcases next year. Remember, the starting 10 on the top two LI teams play the majority of every tough game. That's 20 kids in 2018. Trust me when I say, there will be way more 2018 kids that get recruited in the years to come.

The child being happy is the most important part of the equation - happy and enjoying playing lacrosse trumps all

Dec14th was the date to secure your spot on the showcase teams for Brine by paying $150.00. do you think they will have players drop out? If so will they be replaced from the players cut?

I think so. And I'll preface this with... no I don't think any of the next level of teams can compete with the elites (TLI white, Extreme & Terps), but it is still good quality lax and quality coaching on the following teams. (Outlaws Black, Express Wolverines, Jesters Black, 91 Orange, fl$, TLI Red) Those 6 teams would have a great time playing each other.

3d sent an e-mail to individuals attending the 3d bluechip camp

Included is a section with recruiting advice. This particular bullet from the recruiting timeline stood out for me:



This is the actual advice being provided by 3d to players

Any organization which has gone on record to repeat a year of scholastic (High School) work in order to take another shot at a lacrosse scholarship should be run out of town. This is an embarrassment to the sport not to mention the impact on the individual student.

As we have written earlier on the board, the stigma for a student being held back can bring about socialization issues in addition to boredom of repeating classes and missing the opportunity to graduate with your core friends (who will move on without the star lacrosse stud).

Remember that some states like California have already enacted legislation regarding the number of years of High School sports eligibility. This occurs in football more often (the public to private back to public shuffle) where four years of eligibility are used at the varsity level before senior year of High School. In such situations, many players cannot participate in their senior seasons. Expect that NYSPHSAA will be looking at the issue regarding the number of years of athletic participation versus the academic progress rate.

What does PG mean?

Post Graduate. In other words, a "thirteenth grade" or preparatory year before entering college.

There is a legitimate place for this, and in some fairness to 3D, the kids social well being is not their responsibility it is the parents. 3D is advising kids and parents on how to get recruited. You are not going to get ROI of an extra year of private school vs. extra scholarship money but it may help you get into a top academic school that if you stayed in your regular grade you may not have, it is a huge advantage in grades and on the field. Parents and players should use whatever they can to get into the best school possible and repeating 8th grade is an option just like private lessons and SAT tutors. Like it or not it is working for a lot of kids

There is a legitimate place for this, and in some fairness to 3D, the kids social well being is not their responsibility it is the parents.

Does anyone else see an issue with this or is it just me.

If at first you can't succeed, at your own age, CHEAT and play against the little kids... Ahhh the life lessons some parents teach. Is there no end to depths folks will sink? What's next? Lying about your race? I guess that's ok too. I get it, you can call it race reclassification. That might be another way of stealing a spot at the school you want him to get into. See a trend here? Lying, Cheating, Stealing.... These lessons your teaching won't manifest themselves in other ways when he gets older, don't worry.

First, the idea of replaying a grade is NOT cheating. You might not like it and BOTC might not like it, but it is not cheating. Now, the NYSPHSAA might clamp down on this process in the coming months, however until such time, there is nothing illegal about the move.

Again, the issues surrounding the social stigma of being "left back", leaving your on-age friends, and not graduating "on time" just to pursue lacrosse seem like an absolutely misplaced sense of priorities to us. Misplaced, but not cheating.

To be honest, BOTC thought the expressed opinion was so outlandish that we had not bothered to reply.

Our message board provides an equal opportunity for everyone to prove their foolishness. The poster who does not believe that the club has a role in social development is just taking advantage of the opportunity.

From the 2017 board:


There are kids on "Every Team" that are older than the norm.

PAL / Town Teams at the youth level.

Club Teams at the youth level.

Middle School / JHS Teams.

Club Teams in the 7th and 8th grade.

JV and Varsity High School Teams.

HS Club Teams.

College Teams.

Are they all 'Cheaters" ? Are the parents who hold the child back from starting Kindergarden any different than the parents who hold the child back in the 9th grade? Are they Different than the parents who have their child do a Post Graduate Year at a Prep School? Are they different from the Parents who agree to have their child Redshirt in College?

Did Garden City have any holdbacks last Year? How about Ward Melville? I would bet that there are some boys at WM and GC who are holdbacks. What about Duke? Is Rob Pannell a cheater? Pannell did a PG year after HS and Redshirted at Cornell, Did Cornell Cheat? Is Pannell a Cheater? Did he take the spot of another kid?

This has been going on for a very long time. Starting school late, switching from public to private after 9th grade, PGing and redshirting have all been going on for as long as I can remember.

My kids are in the grade that the School District says they should be in but when the time comes maybe I will consider one of the options available.

There was a time when PGs were used to allow an athlete to improve his academic resume and spend an extra year preparing for the academic rigors of a top academic university (Ivy, Service Academy, etc...) I am okay with this. In this case, the agreement to PG occurs in Senior year.

HS Sophs agreeing to do PG years in order to attend UVA and PSU (after only Freshman grades are in) just doesn't make sense. The University admission departments should shut this down at it is a smear on the reputation of the university. Adults are not acting in the best interest of children.

Does Penn State admissions really believe that a current HS sophmore is unfit for admission in Fall 2016 but with one year of PG will be fit for admission in Fall 2017? Same for UVA? When does the applicant actually apply to the university?

So, when the kid "Athlete" did not have the grades to be accepted to an IVY League University after 3.5 years of HS he was able to go to a Prep School in order to get his grades up? Athletics were an after thought? In the old days, were any of the kids who needed a PG year also start kindergarden late?

foolishness? these hold backs are committing to the top academic and top lacrosse schools in the country. Our kids are crying that it is not fair.

Is it cheating when a kid gets private lessons from Rob Parnell because his parents can afford it while a "better" player can only practice against the wall because that's all his folks can afford or is it fair that a really good player may never become a great player because he can not afford travel lacrosse? If you have the means and opportunity to advance your kid you do it.

For 3D to explain to their clients that repeating a grade is an option to help them get an advantage is not outrageous at all, in fact any organization that did not at least explain that as an option is not doing their job.

This IS good recruiting advice. - I know first hand of a kid who went to 3D as a 2016 and did not receive an invite to Jake Reed, he repeated 8th grade a re-classified as a 2017 and has now verbally committed to a top team and top school. How can anybody question their decision or question repeating 8th grade as a viable strategy?

In the ultimate holding back - Casey Carroll will play his final season at Duke this year, Casey graduated Duke in '07 with one year of eligibility left but decided to do 5 years PG in Afghanistan, came back last year but hurt his leg so he red shirted and now, at age 29 will play his final year.

Or as most LI lax parents would say.....cheater

No that would be an adult playing other adults. Your 16 yo playing against 14yo kids because he can't compete at his own age is CHEATING. Hope that clears it up for you... Nighty night.