BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums LACROSSE LIBRARY COLLEGE RESOURCES Colleges, Coaches, Recruitment : 2013-2014

Back of THE CAGE is pleased to present the opening of our fourth season of the College Forum's discussion thread covering the college recruitment process. We will cover all aspects of recruitment including NCAA Eligibility, the NCAA College Bound Student-Athlete Guidelines for 2013-2014, scholarship questions, college selection criteria, and much more.

All questions are welcomed in this forum from the very basic to the complex. BOTC now opens the 2013-2014 discussion.

Previous Season Reference Threads

College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2012-2013

College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2011-2012

College, Coaches, Recruitment : 2010-2011

What would you say the percentage of times a verbal commit is broken? Is it more likely broken by a student or the school and what would some reasons for a school backing out be?

College coaches will almost NEVER break a verbal commitment and there are several reasons for this. First, the college coach is setting his/her team for an upcoming season(s) and will typically have a particular player slotted for a role. Second, the college coach does not want a reputation of breaking his/her word as that will affect future recruiting efforts.

When a verbal agreement is broken, it is significantly more likely that the student-athlete will make the change in favor of another collegiate setting. Remember that a student-athlete does not need to go through the recruiting cycle for a second time and as a result does not have to worry (as much) about burned bridges with a particular coach. Also note that with earlier commitments taking place, a junior/senior year High School student is more likely to change his/her mind regarding a potential major which might also foster a change in college selection.

The college coach would back out of a verbal agreement under a few select scenarios:

• The student-athlete's academic performance signficantly deteriorates.
• Questionable moral fiber emerges. (Examples would include excessive drinking, drug use, legal problems.)
• The student-athlete stops playing the sport during their senior year for unexplained reasons preventing further analysis of the playing ability.

Regarding the personal issues, this is one reason why we remind students to be very aware of their Facebook profiles. Pictures showing under-age drinking or other questionable practices can lead to the withdrawal of an offer.

As an overall percentage, the number is well below 5% (conservative limit) and is likely much further below the 1% range.

Thank you for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense.

What is the driving force behind getting verbal commitments from kids who are still 3 years away from playing in college? A lot can happen in 3 years with committed and uncommitted players. I recently went to a few recruiting forums and all the college coaches (D1) stood there and preached to not overplay, enjoy other sports, relax....yet they are the driving force behind all the craziness! Talk about mixed messages coming right from the top.

BOTC came across a terrific article from November 2008 that discusses the fear factor associated with verbal commitments.

Vested in Verbals : Lacrosse Magazine, November 2008

The article discusses that the explosive growth of youth lacrosse at the club and high school levels has not been met with similar growth at the NCAA Division I level. As a result, parents and student-athletes are pushing harder and earlier to be sure to have a spot locked up. The article specifically discusses the Empire State Games from 2008 where rising juniors are being taken.

Good article to read, but I still recruiting has changed so much in the five years since it has been published. They talk about juniors and seniors committing but we are now seeing so many rising sophomores committing. Where is the trend going...will we see rising freshman on the list of verbal commits next? I guess my question is really to the college coaches in that what is the rush to commit a kid who still has 3 years of high school left? What happens to the kids who are the late developers? I personally feel, as well as many I have talked to, that this process is getting out of control.

I think that college coaches committing sophomores is a huge mistake on there part. Like the previous post stated, what about late bloomers. N.D. took 5 players from a single squad that seemed almost unbeatable 2 years ago, but today falls somewhere in the top 5. Not nearly as strong or dominate not because there somehow lesser players, but because in the last year and a half, so many players have matured and caught up. College coaches, I feel, get fooled by players that get a lot of hype early because they reach varsity status early, or have personal connections to coaches in both the high school and college ranks. We must also remember that many highly touted players in high school also struggle for many reasons and disappear from the collegiate scene. This is a risk a coach is taking, I think, a little to lightly.

It is crazy when these D-1 schools go after freshman in high school. I'm sure they all hold spots for late bloomers or that kid that was overlooked. I speak from experience... My son verbaled to a D-1 program this summer. He is a rising junior. I'll admit it is a relief and we can breathe a little easier knowing he has found a good fit in a great college. He will be getting some athletic and some academic money. We visited 4 or 5 schools and were very comfortable with his choice. All I can say is you will know when your son or daughter is in the right spot and when it is the right time to jump on something. Although I will say all the pressure to hurry up and commit to a school super early is definitely a problem felt by these kids. They hear and read about other players verbals and they wonder whats taking so long for them.

Penn State getting a verbal commitment from 2017 kid? Come on, this is getting out of control. Coaches are sending mixed messages when they tell parents to relax and enjoy their child high school lacrosse, yet they are willing to look at a kid who is not even in high school. Crazy!!!!!

NCAA Women's Lacrosse Summary Statistics - Recruiting Facts

The following discussion/response is replayed from another thread on the Tryouts Forum.

Believe me when I say I don't mean to come across as arrogant because up until a few years ago I had thought the same way you are thinking. As a parent and coach of two players on the recruiting scene or age as well as a younger player you are incorrect when you say "what college is going to come and watch a white team or any B team at any organization." It is rare that a recruiter comes to watch an Orange team or Red, Blue etc team. While they will come and watch some county finals at the Varsity level, coaches come to watch a "player" they are interested in and not a team of players. They will watch a team at a recruiting event over the summer. Ok off the soapbox

This is precisely the purpose of our College, Coaches, and Recruitment threads on the College Forum here on BOTC. Note that the corresponding College Forum on BOTN (our sister soccer site) has a College Forum replete with more than six years of research on exactly these points.

Your student-athlete should start by identifying with your family any specific limits on school selection. These might include financial concerns, distance concerns (travel distance, car, flights, trains), academic concerns (major selection), and overall campus environment.

Two lists should be formed; a Top Ten Athletics list which looks at lacrosse institutions from Division I, II, and III, and a Top Ten Academics list which only considers academic programs in the absence of lacrosse. The Acedemic list should include three stretch schools, four match schools, and three safety schools. At least one option in both lists should be a local institution which would not require any dorming.

The overlap of these two approaches, usually about four to six schools to start, can form the core listing for your initial starting point.

The lists will morph over time, so please do not think that a freshman year collection of schools will end this discussion.

Write to these coaches and invite them to your tournaments. Be sure that your club coach is aware of the coaches that have accepted invitations to be assured of game time when your target coaches are at the field.

College camps should be used after a particular college has expressed interest in your player via a showcase, game visit, or other viewing. Do not exclusively use a college camp for recruiting purposes if this is the first time the coach will have seen the student-athlete.

These points form the thumbnail sketch. Be sure to avail yourself of the posts and information on our College Forums.

Financing a College Education - Some Hard Numbers

If you read forums such as College Confidential (dedicated to admissions, programs, academics, and environments at college campuses) and follow schools in the Top 50, you will find that the biggest reason for admissions disappointment comes during the awarding of financial aid. Many students and their families will be forced to drop their dream schools when handed a statement of what the bills will be.

Here is the simple fact : Most private institutions among the Top 50 Universities and Top 20 Liberal Arts Colleges are going to be $40,000 per year tuition, $10,000 per year in room and board, and $3,000 in books, spending money, and travel costs.

Too many families are ignoring what it means to actually pay $53,000 per year from your NET INCOME towards a college education. The expectation is that a miracle will happen with funding - either through academics, athletics, or financial aid.

The truth is that you must plan to save $220,000 for a full private school price tag. This means setting aside $10,000 per year per child every year from the time the child is born through college graduation in order to have that cash available.

Suppose your child is now about ten years of age and you have not started a college savings plan? That same private college price tag requires you to now start saving $20,000 of your NET INCOME per year per child at ten years of age.

If scholarship money comes through for you, you will have a built-in savings program. However, a word of caution comes with that sports scholarship. If your student-athlete receives a 0.25 scholarship - which is $10,000 per year - you will still need to come up with $40,000 per year to complete the story.

Even if you knew your ten-year old son or daughter would receive a 25% discount eight years later, you would still need to save $15,000 per year if you have not started when they were younger.

Hopefully, you get the point. There is no magic formula that will make up the difference in tuition payments aside from your own family budget. Start saving early and start saving now.

Finally, a word on financial aid : If your family has a gross income of $150,000, has cash assets of $100,000, and owns your own home, you can rest assured that you will be outside of most financial aid programs. (These parameters have been tested with many financial aid calculators.)

I agree college coaches committing rising freshmen and sophomores has gotten out of hand. However, I don't think the trend is going to reverse itself anytime soon. That's because there's not much risk for the college coaches. Top D1 men's lacrosse programs bring in 12-14 recruits per year. If they completely swing and miss on 7-9 of them, that still gives them 5 recruits that they are happy with. On average, that gives them 20 players on the roster at any given time which is more than they need. And that's if they completely miss on 60% of their recruits. Most coaches of top D1 programs have been at it for sometime and I doubt they would be in their positions if they consistently missed on more than 60% of their recruits year in, year out. So, as long as the kids are willing to commit early, the coaches will be more than happy to take them.

Question : Does an academic scholarship get counted against the NCAA Compliance limit for an equivalency sport like lacrosse?

Answer : From the NCAA Division I Guidelines, Page 213, Section 15.5.3.2.2 (Exceptions) defines how an Academic Award can be calculated OUTSIDE the athletic computations.

15.5.3.2.2.1 Academic Honor Awards—Based on High School Record.

Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by institutions, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math). (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10)

15.5.3.2.2.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)

(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all students;

(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;

(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;

(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such awards;

(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests; and

(f) There must be on file in the office of the director of athletics certification by the financial aid director or the chair of the financial aid committee that such awards are part of the institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, awarded independently of athletics ability, participation and interests, and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution.

NCAA Division I Men’s Lacrosse Recruiting Calendar

August 1, 2013 through July 31, 2014

(See NCAA Division I Bylaw 13.17.5 for Men’s Lacrosse Calendar Formula)

(a) August 1-5, 2013: Contact Period
(b) August 6-12, 2013: Quiet Period
(c) August 13-31, 2013: Dead Period
(d) September 1 through October 31, 2013: Contact Period (No Lacrosse Evaluations)
(e) November 1-26, 2013 [except for (*) below]: Contact Period
(*) November 11-14, 2013: Dead Period
(f) November 27 through December 1, 2013: Dead Period
(g) December 2-23, 2013: Quiet Period
(h) December 24, 2013 through January 5, 2014: Dead Period
(i) January 6-20, 2014: Contact Period (No Lacrosse Evaluations)
(j) January 21 through February 28, 2014: Quiet Period
(k) March 1 through May 22, 2014, [except for (**) below]: Contact Period
(**) April 14-17, 2014: Dead Period
(l) May 23-27 (noon), 2014: Dead Period
(m) May 27 (12:01 p.m.) through July 31, 2014: Contact Period

NCAA Division I Women’s Lacrosse Recruiting Calendar

August 1, 2013 through July 31, 2014

(See NCAA Division I Bylaw 13.17.6 for Women’s Lacrosse Calendar Formula)

(a) August 1-31, 2013 -- Seven contact days selected at the discretion of the institution and designated in writing in the office of the director of athletics. On the designated days, an institution's coaches are not restricted in the number of prospective student-athletes contacted in a single day.
Contact Only (No Evaluations)

(b) Those days during August 1-31, 2013, not designated in (a)
above for contact purposes: Quiet Period

(c) September 1 through November 26, 2013, [except for (1) and
(2) below]: Contact Period

(1) November 11-14, 2013: Dead Period

(2) November 9-10, 16-17 and 23-24: Evaluations of prospective student-athletes participating in lacrosse activities are limited to the three weekends (Saturday and Sunday) prior to Thanksgiving.

(d) November 27, 2013 through January 1, 2014: Quiet Period

(e) January 2 through May 22, 2014, [except for (1) below]: Contact Period

(1) April 14-17, 2014: Dead Period

(f) May 23-25, 2014: Note: Evaluations may occur at one event conducted during the weekend of the NCAA Division I Women’s Lacrosse Championship, provided the event is conducted within a
100-mile radius of the site of the championship. The evaluation must be conducted on a day in which no championship competition is conducted. Dead Period

(g) May 26 through July 31, 2014: Contact Period

From a report aired on WABC-TV in New [lacrosse] on Tuesday, November 12th : 31% of college admissions officers are now reporting that they use a student applicant's Facebook page as a tool to get to know more about the student.

Cumulatively, those same admissions officers report that nearly 1/3rd of their searches are uncovering questionable behaviors or practices within the Facebook photos.

BOTC has often recommended watching your public profiles as a student-athlete and this report offers some concrete metrics for our readers.

Cage -.what's your opinion of college prospect days, particularly for 9th graders? These seem to have gained in popularity and while it feels like a money grab, I don't think it's a bad thing to connect with a targeted program in any way that you can.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Cage - I recently filled out a bunch of online questionnaires for my 2017 daughter. After I was done, I realized that I put the wrong 1 mile time for her, by mistake! I put down 7:08, instead of 6:38, on any forms that asked for a mile time...I'm so frustrated and upset over it...can you give me any advice? Do you think I should fill them out again, or email the coaches, or just leave it alone? I'm so pissed! I appreciate your thought, or ideas, on it.

Lacrosse has a unique advantage in the world of team sports showcasing as there are so many quality combines (individual showcases) available to help the recruiting effort in parallel with team tournaments.

At the recent K&J Athletics Boys Showcase-Clinic, there was substantial interest from coaches in looking at the Class of 2017 (9th Graders). While offers will not be made in most cases, it does allow freshman players to establish a presence with a coach's program.

Quite frankly, BOTC does not currently see any issues with freshman year High School players participating, particularly given many sophomore and junior year commitments taking place.

Our view is that the NCAA is trying to loosen recruiting restrictions since so many of them are incredibly difficult to police. Equivilency sports (like lacrosse) which are typically non-revenue generating are not where the NCAA tends to be most concerned about recruiting violations. What the NCAA is trying to control is the recruiting calendar - meaning that there are specific dead periods during the year to avoid constant recruiting interruptions on holiday periods and various other times during the year.

First and foremost : Completing online questionnaires should be a job for your daughter. While you can participate in the exercise of reviewing content (letters, schedules, resume details), your daughter needs to take an ownership role in the completion of these expressions of interest.

If ownership was in the right place, perhaps this mile time error would not have happened.

At this point, your daughter should draft a letter which can be sent to the target college coaches and introduce herself. In that letter she should explain that her mile time has improved since the original entry on the questionnaire. The last thing a college coach wants to hear from a potential player is "my mom did it wrong for me".

Most importantly, a target college coach that has yet to form a coach-recruit relationship with your student-athlete daughter certainly does not want that first contact coming through Mom.

Hope that this helps.

Thanks Cage. Definitely helps. I understand your point, and we don't plan to correspond with the coaches, until it comes time to talk real specifics, like finances, etc. (probably 2 years from now). She did fill out about 8 questionnaires on her own last night. They were so repetitive, and there was nothing on them that needed her personal input at this point, or that had any connection to her. It was all just the same facts over and over. So, to save her some time, I filled out a bunch today, while I had time. The mile time mistake came from her, not me. We previously (just two days before the questionnaires) emailed all the coaches (from her, not me), and attached a profile page, with her personal, school and club team information. Everything's coming from "her", as far as the coaches can see. Nothing from mom or dad.

Being that she's only a freshman, the questionnaires are half blank as it is (no SAT's, GPA, HS stats, etc.), so I was thinking about just leaving things as-is, being that she'll need to update all that other info next year, or in the late spring, I guess. That actually raises another question - when we have new information, or "faster" times, what should she do? Does she fill out the questionnaire all over again, or just email the coaches, with updates to the answers she originally gave, or left blank?

Back to my original dilemma - now that you know what we've done so far, do you think she should email each coach, specifically about the 30 second mistake on the mile time? She can't say her time improved, since it was just a few days ago. Maybe we wait until spring, and then send update emails, about her faster time? I'm not sure how critical that will be at this point, since so much other information is also missing, for now. What do you think?

As always, thanks for your advice, and input!

Yes, the questionnaire phase can be that way. Typically, that data goes into a database managed by an assistant or recruiting coach. Effectively, it allows a list of interested candidates to be tracked - or perhaps an e-mail list for future camps. None the less, a mistake over the mile time is certainly not a major issue at this point and will be lost in a year's time.

Excellent - as BOTC has recommended, if you can set up a dedicated e-mail account for college recruitment purposes, you might find that you can remain more organized. By mailing coaches, it is clear that you have at least started working with your daughter on her Top Ten Academic and Athletic schools.

The PSAT and PLAN (ACT pre-test) scores will occasionally be requested also as these are early indicators of Board Exam success.

This is a huge non-issue as a freshman. No decision will ever be made on that mile time entry.

She should e-mail the coach when she has something substantial to say - like at the point of the next showcase games at a recruiting event.

It has been a pleasure - keep up the good work.

Great, thanks again Cage! There's so much to keep track of, and your advice is straightforward and organized. This is one of the things I love about BOTC. Your advice and opinions are priceless!

Anybody know anything about Capital U, a website that supposedly links players with college coaches and vice versa.

Attended the Yale Fall Tournament and the organizers must have given them my email address. I am now being solicited. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

The web site is actually Captain U. BOTC has long recommended against using a pay-for recruiting web site when you can achieve the same results with your own e-mailings to your target coaches. Hence, our on-going emphasis on the Top Ten Academic and Top Ten Athletic lists being formed before your family makes its first college contacts.

You can certainly take advantage of their free services (develop a recruiting profile), but that does represent limited value. The site does offer access to 15,000 college coaches - but if you follow our methodology around academics and athletics, you should have to track no more than 30-40 colleges over the lifetime of your student-athlete's recruiting cycle.

Do we know if programs like
Robert morris University
Providnce
Monmuth
Hartford
Quinipiac
Are fully funded D1 lacrosse programs???

Funding data is NOT publicly available from any central source. You need to have the conversation directly with the institution to understand their current funding levels.

Who cares if the school is good for your kid

I can tell you that on the girls side Quinipiac is not, they have 11 scholarships.

When or is it ok to confront a HS coach who during games verbally bad mouths his players behind their backs in front of the other players? Comments are personal attacks, not your typicall in game comments.

Although not related to college recruiting, this is an interesting subject due to the perceived notion of the High School coach's role in the recruiting cycle.

Just as you would want the respect of the High School coach in all situations, it is important that the parent and student-athlete show that same courtesy.

Our strong suggestion is that a private meeting be held with the head coach to openly discuss the concerns. Come armed with written notes and very specific examples - do not let the conversation wander and be sure that emotion is left at the door. This is an opportunity to clear the air prior to a new season.

If the coach is not receptive to the discussion, arrange a chat with the athletic director and principal jointly.

Now just need to consider if any retribution that may cause...

There is a more important point here than worrying about retribution. How many players might have been negatively impacted by these childish coaching antics that you are reporting? The situation is undermining the coach's own authority as he/she is likely being viewed very negatively by the players. If your family is feeling this situation, do you not think others are also?

If you read the Mid-Atlantic Forum here on BOTC with the controversy surrounding Cabell Maddux, you will find a coach that has been reportedly pushing the limits of coaching protocol for some time. It took one parent with the courage to bring the situation to light. You are potentially in that situation at this point.

Appreciate the feedback and advise.

Make sure the superintendent is included in all emails. Remember, the Principal, AD and Coach are all on the same team.

Any thoughts, either good or bad about the Top 205 camp? My son is not a Division 1 player, he will probably play D3 based upon the schools we have explored already. Is this camp worth it for a player looking for D3 exposure? If not this camp, are there others that can be suggested. Thanks.