BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

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Ehhhh, that's about 70% true. Really, 80% true, but 10% off for using "supposably" over and over.

I know nobody here will believe this, but it didn't start as a lacrosse problem. It started as a baseball, basketball, and football problem with the MIAA schools competing with the PA (Philly/Main Line) prep schools. Namely McDonogh, GP, and DeMatha. Talking 20+ years ago. It's important to understand that in VA and MD, you must legally send your kid to school at age 5, always been that way since at least the 1970s. In PA, it's AGE 6 ****with exceptions readily available to age 7**** . So the PA schools like Malvern, St. Joes, La Salle, and even Bishop McDevitt since it's right up I-83, just look like much more dominant programs to send your son, vs. the then mostly on-age MIAA and IAC schools.

So interestingly, a lot of the "last generation" older players for MIAA were actually just "late start" PA kids. Great example, Pat Spencer who did Pennsylvania "late kindergarten" and completely ducked the "holdback" debate, but turned 20 at the end of his freshman year.

The important part of the story above, which is notable, is that the HoCo League strongly embraced grad-class based competition about the same time that Spencer and his cohort were moving through middle school. The connection between Crabs and BL Lax (really starting a few years before Spencer) were enthusiastic about the new league because among other things, it provided some evidence that the "BL reclass model works." Absolutely zero private schools complained about it, and all were happy to join in, and take an extra year of tuition per starting athlete, especially if they could blame it on "the club coaches" which is exactly what happen, if you ask a HS coach ("oh their club coach decided it was best....".

Also notable was the early recruiting phase you mentioned. It's awkward-sauce when you're a 20 year old senior and can't play league games anymore. But substantially LESS awkward if you committed in 9th grade when you were 16, beating up on 14 year olds, so who cares about senior season, you're locked in. UNC Lax sticker for mom's volvo SUV...purchased!

Thanks you for these explanations.

So these kids get to play 8th grade HOCO 3 years in a row?

You forgot to mention the 5th year college kid and the PG from up north. Things are really getting out of hand. They're stealing all the GLORY.

y’all are off the darn rails. get a life!

This isn’t about hoco or middle school lacrosse. Reality is that elite players will be recruited 3 summers from now (yes hard to imagine 29’s) and the majority of the top 100, will be older, bigger, and stronger. Most of them would still go high level D1 in the grad year above. They will be recruited on un-coachable athleticism, aggression, and will to compete. There will be commitments from players you don’t think are any good to elite schools that will have you scratching your head. Kids with no varsity reps going to the Big 10 and ivy’s purely off of potential.

By the time that rolls around to the 29’s complaining about reclasses will be so far in the rearview y’all be will laughing about how wound up you used to get.

The best players in 2029 are on age, but may still be reclassed…what about that!?

Ehhhh, that's about 70% true. Really, 80% true, but 10% off for using "supposably" over and over.

I know nobody here will believe this, but it didn't start as a lacrosse problem. It started as a baseball, basketball, and football problem with the MIAA schools competing with the PA (Philly/Main Line) prep schools. Namely McDonogh, GP, and DeMatha. Talking 20+ years ago. It's important to understand that in VA and MD, you must legally send your kid to school at age 5, always been that way since at least the 1970s. In PA, it's AGE 6 ****with exceptions readily available to age 7**** . So the PA schools like Malvern, St. Joes, La Salle, and even Bishop McDevitt since it's right up I-83, just look like much more dominant programs to send your son, vs. the then mostly on-age MIAA and IAC schools.

So interestingly, a lot of the "last generation" older players for MIAA were actually just "late start" PA kids. Great example, Pat Spencer who did Pennsylvania "late kindergarten" and completely ducked the "holdback" debate, but turned 20 at the end of his freshman year.

The important part of the story above, which is notable, is that the HoCo League strongly embraced grad-class based competition about the same time that Spencer and his cohort were moving through middle school. The connection between Crabs and BL Lax (really starting a few years before Spencer) were enthusiastic about the new league because among other things, it provided some evidence that the "BL reclass model works." Absolutely zero private schools complained about it, and all were happy to join in, and take an extra year of tuition per starting athlete, especially if they could blame it on "the club coaches" which is exactly what happen, if you ask a HS coach ("oh their club coach decided it was best....".

Also notable was the early recruiting phase you mentioned. It's awkward-sauce when you're a 20 year old senior and can't play league games anymore. But substantially LESS awkward if you committed in 9th grade when you were 16, beating up on 14 year olds, so who cares about senior season, you're locked in. UNC Lax sticker for mom's volvo SUV...purchased![/quote]

Interesting history

Interesting history[/quote]

Well as mostly MD and VA parents on this board, prob worth putting a pin in this story, since as you know, the parents of top level PA kids have plenty to say about holdbacks. But if you look at top PA teams in 9th grade (Dukes, NXT, Freedom, Team 10 etc) the top 2/3 of the roster will be "late start PA kids." Now, those PA parents will never tell you that. They'll just whine about holdbacks, meanwhile, their 16 year old PA 9th grader is playing vs MD 16 year old 9th graders, so IDK what they are even complaining about.

I was looking at teams in the area and yes there are more on teams then others. Crabs is the obvious to have more then most. No need to comment back. However I have also noticed that teams also have very young players that are just as good if not better then some of the holdbacks. I know of one 8th grade player (Very young 8th grader) playing, that at is bigger, stronger, faster, and more of an impact on the field than then most of the hold backs I have seen. So yes "some" holdbacks maybe at advantage, but we have to remember that there are on age and younger players that have worked and continue to work to dominate, match up, and even handle their business on the field.

Anyways, Where is everyone playing this weekend?

indeed, as it relates to crabs there are an equal amount of 7th graders on the team, both above and below the birthday cutoff. some of these kids are captured in the holdback numbers being thrown around.

don’t confuse the legends/crabs with the real crabs, it’s a very different team.

Updated guidance on HOCO site

Looks like they backed up the June 1 2010 date a bit

Age Requirement: No Player born before March 1, 2010
may participate in 2029

Yeah! My May birthday B team 2028 is dropping down to 2029 and going D1!

Seriously, if your kid is on the field in hoco elite or the next years in MIAA, they’re just fine. Sure holdbacks produce the stars, but the reality is the majority of kids are on age and holdback complainers are mad that not everyone wins in this s****y game of youth sports.

Complete joke that you people consider that an 8th grader.
My son is younger than that and so are 15 or his teammates on a 2028 team that is in the top 30 in the country.
This sport is beyond broken.
Pathetic.

For what it is worth “We” don’t but apparently there is a subset that feels like they are entitled to ignore USA Lax guidelines and must have convinced the spineless leadership of HOCO to let their academic underachievers play.

Yup
Underachievers
Pathetic that these “8th” grade teams consist of legit high school age kids

OMG, can you believe an 8th grade team has 8th graders on it. Didn't see that coming.

Except they're not. But keep trying to convince yourself every reclass playing down isn't a joke.

Agree , can you believe that these other 8th grade teams dont hold them back two years instead of one to really get an advantage . Suckers

Congrats to the Red Hots 29 for winning 4 games in their Aloha tournament today by a score of 59-0.

Several other top teams playing against @ChillLaxin competition last weekend. Gotta get that free t-shirt!!!

Well they did give their second string players a go at it too. Quality Club and Quality wins over tough competition. This team has Number One written all over it. Aloha is one stronger fields.

Now that HOCO is settled and we can move whether we like it or not. What teams will be in the mix. Is it the usual suspects FCA, MADLAX, CRABS, HAWKS, TC? Who else? I know that some teams are unable to play some of their holdbacks. And that's the way it is. Hopefully HOCO makes an early, definitive, and clear decision before the 2026 season and allows everyone to understand the rules. IMO, this had made the lacrosse an ugly situation.

In other news... getting back to field play because thats why we are here. Any updates? Any good games to discuss.

I UNDERSTAND THIS IS ONLY FALL BALL HOWEVER BEFORE WE KNOW IT THE SEASON WILL BE HERE!

This weekends tourney outcomes from Us Lacrosse Ranking Page

Hawks - no games recorded as of yet
Crabs - 3-0 this weekend. Scores seems to show they possibly played weaker teams.
Clippers - 0-2 with some larger loses
FCA - 3-0 with some seemingly decisive wins against ok teams.
FCA white 1-2 with a great win against Pred b team.
Next level 4-5 this fall with some larger than normal loses
TC Black - 0-3 , no newer tournet scores posted
Team 91 - 3-0 against ok competition.
Madlax - 2-1 with no newer tournaments.

I think teams beyond elite, FCA WHITE and PREDATORS are going to match up really well and compete heavily every time they play.

Are RED HOTS fielding a team or did that ship sink?


Finally, let's try to turn this page into something a little more positive to grow the game and make it something exciting.

FCA - 3-0 with some seemingly decisive wins against ok teams.

Don’t believe this was FCA MD Blue team

Hawks played at Gold Cup in DE. They went 5-0

One of the teams discussed in the past as maybe an elite and one of the teams they played was True NOVA - played them twice. On Saturday match up, it was definitely a deer in head lights for NOVA. Just a big step up in play for them. NOVA struggled in winning face-offs, clearing and when they did clear they turned the ball over to lose 10-zippy. Reportedly NOVA was missing 2 starting attack, 1st line middie, starting Dman and LSM and it showed. No excuse, you play who you've got and NOVA wasn't ready. Not sure who was missing for Hawks.

The Sunday game (and getting some of their starters back from playing sports on Saturday) NOVA was more evenly matched. NOVA was losing 5-3 with about 5-6 minutes left when Hawks ripped off 3 straight goals on fast breaks off of clears to win 8-3. Transition defense will be a huge issue for NOVA if they don't get it straighten out. 6 of Hawks 8 goals (3 long pole goals) were scored in transition or slow fast breaks. The other two were a 6-4 man up and the other was an absolute snipe by the lefty attackman (the only real settled offense goal).

If the 1st game was any indication then NOVA was not ready. The second game certainly showed they didn't look didn't belong. So it will be interesting to see what happens from here with them.

There were only 2 FCA teams listed FCA Maryland and FCA White

This was what was on the web site For FCA MAryland
FCA Blue was listed as playing in the first 3 games.
Maybe there was a mix up.

2024-10-20 10:00 True Chesapeake Black (2029) October Invitational (2029 SUNDAY) 5 - 2
2024-10-20 12:00 Team 91 South (2029) October Invitational (2029 SUNDAY) 6 - 3
2024-10-20 14:00 Next Level Blue 2029 October Invitational (2029 SUNDAY) 4 - 5
2024-11-02 08:50 Laytonville Hippos (2029) NXT | Harvest Classic 2024 - Saturday (2029) 7 - 3
2024-11-02 10:30 3D Garden State A (2029) NXT | Harvest Classic 2024 - Saturday (2029) 7 - 2
2024-11-02 13:50 NXT Silver (2029) NXT | Harvest Classic 2024 - Saturday (2029) 6 - 0

Only Commenting on ELITE level teams using HOCO Spring League terms:

Hawks Green- went 5-0 against AAA level competition (True NoVa, Hoco, Carolina Coastal etc..)
Crabs- agreed... 3-0 this weekend against AAA and some AA competition
FCA Blue- did not play since the original NL Invitational where they went 2-1 against Elite level teams.
Next Level Blue- did not see them play this past weekend. I think USCL has their record screwed up where they are showing Red games under Blue. Blue went 1-2 against elite teams at the NL Invitational.
True Chesapeake Black- did not play since the original NL Invitationa where they went 0-3 against Elite level teams.
Preds Red- 0-2-1 two weeks ago against Fusion Futures and two AAA level teams.
Team 91- went 3-0 against lower competition (AA hoco level teams)
Madlax- went 2-1 at NL Invitational against Elite level teams.

Not a lot of tournaments with elite competition so far this fall. NAL Invitational is this weekend and has a bunch of quality clubs from around the country.

Also, hard to get a handle on team performance given fall sports and other obligations.

"Are RED HOTS fielding a team or did that ship sink?"

I don't know any kids playing for Red Hots Maryland. Guessing they will keep sniffing around and try again next year.

It was not. FCA Blue plays this weekend. They are 2-1 so far in the fall.

Hawks went 5-0 against lower competition. Team 91 Georgia is a solid team that could hang with the bottom half of HOCO Elite. Ture NoVa and Hoco Pink are AAA level teams. My guess is Hawks took their foot off the gas and were working on evaluating depth players or installing new offensive concepts rather than run up the score on a team they already beat 10-0.

Fca’s record on the rankings is wrong then

Madlax went 2-1 at Fall Brawl. Lost 6-3 to Dukes, beat Predators Red 9-2 and Team 91 VA (rebranded Richmond Hawks) 8-2

Madlax went 2-1 at Fall Brawl. Lost to Duke's 6-3, beat Team 91 VA (rebranded Richmond Hawks) 8-2 and Talk of Baltimore 9-2.

Question for anyone who was at the Apex tournament… why didn’t crabs play shore kaos in the final? Or is that a typo?

Surprised about that Dukes result. Dukes has lost a couple of their better players. Wonder if the rumors of ML losing a few kids to age/team
politics is true.

The record is wrong. Neither FCA Blue or White teams played at the NXT Harvest Classic. Guessing this was FCA Philly.

Why even bother? I'd be seriously ticked if my kid's program wasted our family's time and money like that. Redhots pay to play model was unique a few years ago. Glad that model and their appeal has died off, at least around here in MD.

I'd also be looking for answers from Aloha. If I was a program director at one of the other teams in the tourney I'd be looking for a partial refund or free entry to another tourney as compensation.

Just a bad showing all around.

Totally agree. What's the point of spending 7 hours and spending ~ $500 on a Sunday to pound a bunch of inferior teams? The elite kids don't get better... frankly, they probably start to develop bad habits. The lower level kids don't get any better. They might even lose interest in lacrosse if it happens too frequently. I get it that these tourneys want cash but they need to better police the talent to keep things competitive.

That is kind of a convenient argument to make. Was Team 91 Georgia doing the same thing when it tied NOVA 5-5?

I can't comment on Team 91 Georgia and the True NOVA game because I've only seen 91 Georgia play twice and they were vastly different teams each times.

I made my previous comment about Hawks based on several factors.

1. The difference between the top of AAA division and HOCO and even the bottom of the Elite Division is VAST. The last two teams that dominated AAA and moved up to Elite struggled (FCA and Predators).
2. The difference between the bottom of Elite and the top of Elite is almost as VAST. Outside of Crabs/LTLC picking off Madlax, bottom Elite teams don't simply don't beat top Elite teams.
3. Hawks Green is not just at the top of Elite, they are in the top 1-2 teams.
4. Most top teams use the Fall to work on integrating new players, installing new schemes and giving bottom of the roster kids playing time.

Trust me, True NOVA dad... it's ok to be proud of your kids team's progress but you guys arent even in the same zip code as Hawks.

I would agree with your statements, however I think the elite teams (top 5) in Hoco have been closer then ever. On any given day one team an beat another? This year will demonstrate whether last years FCA was a fluke or if it is who they are. It will be interesting.

Fair enough. It is sort of like the hold back debate. You don't get better playing weaker teams. You get better by challenging yourself. I know my son's hope is they get that opportunity.