BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

We were discussing holdbacks/prefirsts/reclass, try to keep up.

Yeah, and how can we best punish and demoralize these children, right. Shameful how they lock up all the D1 offers in middle school. It's not fair, club lacrosse should be softer than their school teams. How else would everyone get a scholarship while in middle school.

Yeah, and how can we best punish and demoralize these children, right. Shameful how they lock up all the D1 offers in middle school. It's not fair, club lacrosse should be softer than their school teams. How else would everyone get a scholarship while in middle school.

This is nonsense given colleges can’t even communicate with kids at this age. We have entered Clowntown now and the BS is getting deep.

Coaches and recruits must wait until September 1 after an athlete's junior year, to communicate via verbal offers, emails, calls, texts and recruiting letters. Though, recruiting rules do vary from division to division, allowing coaches to contact athletes earlier, most division levels follow the NCAA rules.

"But lets face it. Crabs has them playing on the 29 team because they couldn't get any difference makers to come over from other clubs. Last year was a debacle so they knew if they didn't improve dramatically, King Crab was going to drop the hammer. They added as many reclasses as they could get but only one of those was on offense. So, out of desperation, they also kept a couple of 2030's on offense."

So crabs does have 4 holdbacks. All the boys are in 8th or seventh grade. So the 4 boys that are holdbacks, Where do they go play lacrosse in the spring? Maryland does not allow for 8th graders to play in High School nor does it have a league for this group. This is the reality of the rule that was set in place. I am sure that the holdbacks on the team were not held back for athletic purposes. If they were shame on the parents. I wish D.O.B's would be placed on rosters, because the reality is that there are bigger gaps in ages between on age kids than on-age and Hold backs.

We can debate this all you want however as long as there is no universal age clarification in all sports, this will keep happening. I blame, parents, coaches, club directors, and even U.S.A Lacrosse for the fiasco this has created. There "major players" in youth lacrosse that like to be the squeaky wheel so to manipulate things to their advantage. Back room conversations.

Ask any of the kids playing on the field what they think. They don't care. My kids is an on age player on a team with holdbacks and he could care less about how old they are. All he knows is that they go to his school or others schools in the area. Never has he questioned other teams for having hold backs. They only thing him and his friends have said is not good of a shot they have or they can run forever or they are good defensman.

I recommend it. Ask your kid if they care that one player is older than the other. The answer is they don't.

Side note. -I am against holdbacks. Just looking at it realistically.

Does the same go for a kid who can't make a middle school team and needs his mommy to get the rules changed for him? How's that going to go in high school and college?

What a moronic take.... the purpose of the rules is to prevent older kids from playing down against younger kids due to the differences in physical development. By definition, the younger kids "made the team".

Nice attempt at deflection, lost holdback dad. Sorry your kid isn't capable of making a team his own age. Nice attempt at criticizing younger kids for their challenge in competing with your high schooler.

1. Crabs has 5 holdbacks that should be 28's. 1 left attack, 1 LSM and 3 Close Defensemen. I won't name names out of respect for the kids and their families.

2. "where do they go play lacrosse in the spring?".... duh.... they play for their school team.

3. "I'm sure the boys weren't held back for athletic purposes"... .hahahahaha... sure they weren't. They just happened to pick a sport where holdbacks were permitted at the club level.

4. "Ask any of the kids playing on the field what they think. They don't care.".... some don't... especially if their team is benefiting from the holdbacks. Most do.

1. Four or five not going to get into an arguement over that.
2. What if their school doesn’t have a team. Talking about other kids not just crabs kids. Not all kids go to Lacrosse schools.
3. It’s not fair to assume it was done for sports. Learning and developmental concerns may have been discovered at an early age. Dyslexia, speech development, and other health concerns may have been an issue. All which are private. And some which have nothing to do with athleticism. We are in a lacrosse Mecca, everyone plays lacrosse or at least has been involved in it one way or another.
4. I did. I actually coach a team and thought I’d ask. They really didn’t care. They were more motivated to beat that team and they did.

Plus all the kids that go to school together don’t socialize by wether they are holdbacks or not they care wether they are a d$&@ or not.

1. Crabs has 5 holdbacks that should be 28's. 1 left attack, 1 LSM and 3 Close Defensemen. I won't name names out of respect for the kids and their families.

2. "where do they go play lacrosse in the spring?".... duh.... they play for their school team.

3. "I'm sure the boys weren't held back for athletic purposes"... .hahahahaha... sure they weren't. They just happened to pick a sport where holdbacks were permitted at the club level.

4. "Ask any of the kids playing on the field what they think. They don't care.".... some don't... especially if their team is benefiting from the holdbacks. Most do.

1. Four or five not going to get into an arguement over that.
2. What if their school doesn’t have a team. Talking about other kids not just crabs kids. Not all kids go to Lacrosse schools.
3. It’s not fair to assume it was done for sports. Learning and developmental concerns may have been discovered at an early age. Dyslexia, speech development, and other health concerns may have been an issue. All which are private. And some which have nothing to do with athleticism. We are in a lacrosse Mecca, everyone plays lacrosse or at least has been involved in it one way or another.
4. I did. I actually coach a team and thought I’d ask. They really didn’t care. They were more motivated to beat that team and they did.

Plus all the kids that go to school together don’t socialize by wether they are holdbacks or not they care wether they are a d$&@ or not.

1. Crabs has 5 holdbacks that should be 28's. 1 left attack, 1 LSM and 3 Close Defensemen. I won't name names out of respect for the kids and their families.

2. "where do they go play lacrosse in the spring?".... duh.... they play for their school team.

3. "I'm sure the boys weren't held back for athletic purposes"... .hahahahaha... sure they weren't. They just happened to pick a sport where holdbacks were permitted at the club level.

4. "Ask any of the kids playing on the field what they think. They don't care.".... some don't... especially if their team is benefiting from the holdbacks. Most do.

1. Four or five not going to get into an arguement over that.
2. What if their school doesn’t have a team. Talking about other kids not just crabs kids. Not all kids go to Lacrosse schools.
3. It’s not fair to assume it was done for sports. Learning and developmental concerns may have been discovered at an early age. Dyslexia, speech development, and other health concerns may have been an issue. All which are private. And some which have nothing to do with athleticism. We are in a lacrosse Mecca, everyone plays lacrosse or at least has been involved in it one way or another.
4. I did. I actually coach a team and thought I’d ask. They really didn’t care. They were more motivated to beat that team and they did.

Plus all the kids that go to school together don’t socialize by wether they are holdbacks or not they care wether they are a d$&@ or not.

So age isn't the issue, it's size. And of course we all know that kids are all the same size as they age. Makes perfect sense now.

Holdback apologists like you have all the excuses. There is something called fair play that is in every industry and everything we do. Laws get written to define it for adults. Of course it is skirted on many occasions.

Youth sports is one place that majority of people can agree should be a place for fair play. Age is the most common sense way to go about it. Allowing holdbacks to play down and get an advantage at youth level, while others with exact same birthday dont get that advantage goes against all common sense and fair play of youth sports.

You and the rest of the holdback apologists try to defend an undefendable position.

So age isn't the issue, it's size. And of course we all know that kids are all the same size as they age. Makes perfect sense now.

Not a holdback and I can understand why people are not happy, but the complaining is over the top. How many or what percentage of players in 2029 are holdbacks? I’m willing to bet it’s a very small minority. There are plenty of opportunities for good players to start. ~20 (or less?) holdbacks out of over 160 HoCo elite players is not why your kid is not starting. Work hard and earn your spot. This is not rec and you are not guaranteed anything just be you payed club fees.

So kind of like the advantage you have paying thousands of dollars a year for your son to go to private school or play travel lacrosse? There are talented kids out there who don’t have your advantage.

Not a holdback and I can understand why people are not happy, but the complaining is over the top. How many or what percentage of players in 2029 are holdbacks? I’m willing to bet it’s a very small minority. There are plenty of opportunities for good players to start. ~20 (or less?) holdbacks out of over 160 HoCo elite players is not why your kid is not starting. Work hard and earn your spot. This is not rec and you are not guaranteed anything just be you payed club fees.

So did HOCO change the rules back to USA Lacrosse guidance or not? As noted in other posts they have pulled down their revised 2029 guidance that was previously on their website. If so what does this mean for the teams that added players that are now ineligible to play? I am sure this affects teams even outside of Elite but the lack of a posted policy on the HOCO site is concerning because teams should have time to make adjustments as needed.

It's also purely coincidental that reclassing is a major problem in lacrosse but not in sports like soccer and hockey where ages are strictly verified.

So did HOCO change the rules back to USA Lacrosse guidance or not? As noted in other posts they have pulled down their revised 2029 guidance that was previously on their website. If so what does this mean for the teams that added players that are now ineligible to play? I am sure this affects teams even outside of Elite but the lack of a posted policy on the HOCO site is concerning because teams should have time to make adjustments as needed.

Hahaha.... That's rich... You're some sort of modern day, lax-dad robin hood. You see injustice in the world and choose to fight it by double holding back your son! That will teach the villains of Maryland who have access to good lacrosse coaching when the poor wretches of Idaho have none!!!! How very noble of you! Others who choose to have their son play on age are simply cowards who are unwilling to stand up and fight the injustice around them!

Have a great day, Robin Hood!

Hockey is an interesting comparison.

Most college hockey players don't start college until later in life/after playing some form of post graduate hockey or competing in juniors. I'd imagine the college coaches enjoy it because they get to recruit young men who are 19-21 years old, when it's much easier to determine what type of athlete they will be. The later recruiting cycle coupled with the strict age verification seems like a decent model to change the demand side of things (i.e. college recruiting), which in theory would relieve some of the supply side stress (i.e. holding a young athlete back because of perceived/real benefits).

I'm sure there are still plenty of problems in the hockey world, but maybe their model is in some ways superior to what's currently going on with lacrosse. Or not.

The plan is that the Elite clubs will be leaving HOCO and creating their own league which will be following the USA Lacrosse guidance.

Starting next spring (i.e. 2025 season)? Or at some point in the future?

I thought some of the elite teams were who pushed back against instituting the age guidelines, so why would they leave?

the outcome will be different when our club plays crabs again.

And all of the families applauding their former B team player sudden success will face a rude awakening when they have to play same age kids in high school next year. Back to the bench for their kid.

Only one pushed back..... FCA!

Good for FCA!

And all of the families applauding their former B team player sudden success will face a rude awakening when they have to play same age kids in high school next year. Back to the bench for their kid.

Here's what I heard...

Originally, hoco ruled that 29's would be age verified for the 7th and 8th grade seasons.

Then someone (Crabs) complained that they didn't know that when they decided to cheat and hold their kids back and that it wasn't fair so hoco caved and reversed the decision making the 29 age group a 27 month window.

Then FCA/ML/NL/Hawks and TC all said they would boycott Hoco this spring if they didn't reverse their reversal.

In Virginia, we let our 8th graders play with the high school teams in the fall. You guys are weird up there.

Here's what I heard...

Originally, hoco ruled that 29's would be age verified for the 7th and 8th grade seasons.

Then someone (Crabs) complained that they didn't know that when they decided to cheat and hold their kids back and that it wasn't fair so hoco caved and reversed the decision making the 29 age group a 27 month window.

Then FCA/ML/NL/Hawks and TC all said they would boycott Hoco this spring if they didn't reverse their reversal.

Hockey is an interesting comparison.

Most college hockey players don't start college until later in life/after playing some form of post graduate hockey or competing in juniors. I'd imagine the college coaches enjoy it because they get to recruit young men who are 19-21 years old, when it's much easier to determine what type of athlete they will be. The later recruiting cycle coupled with the strict age verification seems like a decent model to change the demand side of things (i.e. college recruiting), which in theory would relieve some of the supply side stress (i.e. holding a young athlete back because of perceived/real benefits).

I'm sure there are still plenty of problems in the hockey world, but maybe their model is in some ways superior to what's currently going on with lacrosse. Or not.