BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Long Island Top Guns Lacrosse

Both sets of parents are so caught up in each other, it's unbelievable...half the time, what you're reading is from a parent from the other club, so don't be so sure it's a TG or YJ parent...

The whole argument is stupid. Lots of the girls friends from both teams and have mutual respect for one another

I have come to an epiphany as of late (and I'm sure you will get a chuckle out of this sage). I think that we all owe the directors of the 3 major girls clubs an equal and sincere debt of gratitude and thanks. And I truly mean every parent, and every player from all 3. With my daughter nearly done reaching the goal, I now have a chance to see how even though there was a good amount of rivalry, companionship, and hart ache all three directors have helped each and very girl on all three clubs grow into (mostly) good woman that no the meaning of perseverance, hard work, and intestinal fortitude. our girls learned how to pick themselves up and continue on when they lost, got cut , or faced a myriad of other obstacles. They learned how to lose with dignity, and win with grace, all because these 3 woman. We may not always agree with the tactics, or politics, but the healthy rivalry between the 3 clubs is intricate to these lessons.

To the parents of the younger clubs, try not to be to concerned with who beats who, or what club is the best, truth is all these girls are fantastic athletes that we parents either wish we still were, or could have been. Each club has a different style, just like each girl is different, so though you may not have been chosen for a club, only means that your daughter doesn't play that "brand" of lacrosse. Try not to get to into wins and loses, and enjoy the time you spend with your athlete, because that time is fleeting, and hopefully she'll be playing for a D1 that may be too far away for you to ever see her play again
In closing let me say thank you to Carol, Shannon, and Danielle. for all the lessons you teach our daughters

Excellent!

Talk about irony. In one paragraph the writer says we owe it all to 3 major clubs (when there are far more than 3 clubs as well as JV and HS coaches that attributed to the success of all these girls) and then the writer goes on to say - but it doesnt matter what club you play for (as long as it is one of the 3 major ones).

Looks like someone is smoking the hookah pipe

I laughed at few points:

1. Liberty is a major club? Not anymore.
2. Thank you to Shannon - how old is Top Guns? Her first set of teams are only now going through the recruiting process.
3. Learned to lose with dignity and grace - have you ever seen Carol or Danielle after a loss?
4. Healthy rivalry? - Carol vs. Shannon - you call that healthy with all of the garbage that is spewed.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Hardly an epiphany to say the least

Did u see the list of schools the yj 2015 class is going to. Or the list of micky mouse schools the other club is going to. I never heard of some of these schools.

Dude, you are only trying to stir the pot and don't even know what you are talking about. Give it a rest. Go away.

BOTC must be missing something.

Boston College, Duke University, and Florida are among the Top Guns 2015 commitments.

Penn, Notre Dame, Hopkins, Princeton, Northwestern, and Stanford are among the Yellow Jackets top names.

Both programs have representation in the Top Ten universities as per US News and World Reports and expected levels of Top 40 participation in parallel.

BOTC recommends that you spend some time to acquaint yourself with more of the schools on both lists as academics will play a big role in your college selection process and having stretch, match, and safety institutions all among your Top 10 choices will serve you well.

Powderfinger : My impression was that the poster was truly uninformed on the entire topic, rather than trying to stir the pot. Usually, one trying to stir the pot has some command over the subject and knows the "soft targets" in the discussion. Sadly, we do not see any of these traits here.

As a result, the poster who was trying to be "smart" has demonstrated a complete ignorance of the college admissions process and is woefully unprepared to handle the college selection process. There is a general lack of understanding about college rankings and the requirements at many of these schools for admission.

Sadly, these are the types of students and parents that are left wondering what happened midway through their senior year; they believe that the system is hopelessly rigged and everyone was "out to get them" during the admissions cycle.

BOTC has tried to politely answer the comment and educate the reader, but would you be surprised to find out that the original poster is now chuckling thinking that he/she posted a "good one"? Sad when you think about it in this context. Actually, I pity the poster.

Dayum, quite the CageSage smackdown and thankfully not directed at me!

While I have your attention, do you have anything to add to the D1 scholarship discussion currently ongoing on the YJ thread? I've been waiting for some input from you.

yet here you are - spewing garbage. Thanks for the laugh.

Regarding the Yellow Jackets thread discussion, National Letters of Intent will typically spell out the academic, athletic, and financial aid considerations independently from one another. The poster in that thread who claimed that the award was lumped together has obviously not seen an NLI in person.

BOTC has been doing research on a very confusing topic : Does an academic award count against the NCAA Compliance limitations for scholarship counts even though the money not be coming from the athletics side? There are very mixed pictures here based on sport, year in college (freshman or not), and other criteria. This is one of the most difficult areas of the compliance codes rivaled only by training unit calculations and the distribution of those during preseason.

In order to provide an accurate answer, we are simply going to need to spend more time on the subject. Lest anyone think we are kidding, the book from the NCAA defining this code is 444 pages in length - and that is only the NCAA Division I version. There are independent copies for Division II and III.

From the NCAA Division I Guidelines, Page 213, Section 15.5.3.2.2 (Exceptions) defines how an Academic Award can be calculated OUTSIDE the athletic computations. This section deals with EQUIVILENCY SPORTS of which Lacrosse is one.

15.5.3.2.2.1 Academic Honor Awards—Based on High School Record. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by institutions, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math). (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99, Revised: 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10)

15.5.3.2.2.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be met: (Adopted: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/99)

(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all students;

(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;

(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;

(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such awards;

(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests; and

(f) There must be on file in the office of the director of athletics certification by the financial aid director or the chair of the financial aid committee that such awards are part of the institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, awarded independently of athletics ability, participation and interests, and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution.

Thank you. That is really helpful information. Helps to clear up a confusing issue.

Taking a look at the YJ fall tournament schedule. They do way more fall ball events at many varied venues and send teams to represent at all age groups. The only fall event endorsed by TGs is SS hofstra tournaments. Its more of a cash in event or series of three events. Would love to see more fall events.

Good point. We're big TG supporters, and we're not going anywhere else, but we do wish they offered more....

Maybe they will once they finaluze rosters? Alot of us wish they offered more.

On the other hand, maybe we are better off to go chose friends to play with, with better coaches and proper sized teams and be free to do our own thing rather than force fed. Even the better YJ choose to do this fall stuff on their own terms. Plus you have other sports, you can be asking to much.

Not a bad point...maybe if TG "offered" a little more, so people weren't forced to do it, but would have the option. I think most would choose to do more, but maybe they'd feel "forced", like you said...

Seems like you have to go to Maryland or Florida for the good fall tournaments. President's Cup, Rivalry and maybe Mid-Atlantic and/or PrimeTime. What others??

Are other TG players being invited to Maryland or is this an uber exclusive venue?

recruiting ages only, High School Sophomores and Juniors...There will be plenty of lacrosse for everyone during the winter and spring

Looks like a pretty good line-ups at both Rivalry and President's cup. Unfortunately no TG at President's cup. If there is s tourney worth traveling to Florida for, this would be the one...many college coaches.

It's not just about recruiting. It's about playing! Most colleges have 7v7 day tournaments that you could send a team to (split them in half). Many colleges are local, StonyBrook, Hofsta, Adelphi and some an hour-2 hours away like Rutgers and Princeton. If you want to play you really don't have an excuse. Why wait until the winter to play?

Is there a schedule for the Hofstra tournament out yet?

Gets old when you have the same TG parents setting up tournaments at the younger age groups and they hand pick who is allowed to play. Somehow these parents have power over the rest of us and all they do is favor their own kids. The coaches kids never come out of the game no matter how many times they lose the ball and never play defense. Would be nice if something were available for all the kids and had actual coaches who knew something about the game instead of these guys who think they are the greatest coaches around.

Right and this is the club it happens in.

If the TG team your daughter plays for is going to any tournament,anywhere, she has been invited period.

perhaps you just answered your own question. take the lead yourself. get your daughter (who obviously is very good) recruit a few of her friends (shouldn't be hard since she is so good) and you coach. Team will be great. You obviously know a lot. you seem to know what NOT to do. You will not play your own daughter because you have seen the errors of others. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!! Loser.

WOW !!!! one parent calling another a loser in an open forum. Obviously coach daddy has a thin skin. This sounds like the club for me . where do I sign up. Wasn't this the club that got offended when called a bunch of white trash. Way to set the record straight

Yeah right because they respond to the Thread they must be a part of the Club. Because if it is in print it is true

It does seem confusing that the program allows certain dads to cherry pick their own teams from the TG rosters. The 2019's and 2020's, in particular, really abuse the system by putting TG teams in under the cloak of a team with a different name. They complain all summer because their daughters team is not as good as some of the others, but fail to realize that by only getting who they believe to be "The Top 10" better, they are actually hurting the "Team." Instead of building unity and camaraderie, they build animosity. No "Team" can ever be all that good with that much divisiveness.

Stop deflecting dad we all know it's you

Here is the deal, TG organizes zero team events in the fall (younger teams). Honestly the last thing I would want my daughter to do is play on the 24 player roster as a team for a 7 player tourney. Be proactive and network and you will find a team to play on. If you are not socially skilled enough to do this on your own or you are not able to put your own team together, call BS and he will find a team for your daughter to play on, at least for the hofstra tournaments, beyond that your on your own. A small group of girls in each age group will get attention and be asked to participate in many things, if your daughter is not one of those cherry picked girls and your plan is to sit back and wait to be asked, you may be in for a long ride.

Sounds like a "great team concept". Are you serious? First of all there has to be a better way to do that. Have girls on the 24 girl roster alternat tournaments. Break them up and enter multiple teams. The entire part of joining a team is to have the girls play together and form a bond. Telling them - good luck and your on your own and your in for a long ride - welcome to the TG program. I hope this is your view on this and not the view of the people that run the program.

Not A oart of TG so from an outsiders point of view let me say this. It is very commendable for a parent to take a group of girls and register them in these events and take his own time to coach and do all the leg work. Where this starts to fall apart is he continues to use the T.G. name. If he is going to do all this work only for certain girls than he should go one step further and just make up a different name and order 15 pinnies from Lacrosse Unlimited . If he continues to use Shannons name to further only the "cherry picked" girls then Bill or Shannon should step in and tell him to stop. If they are going as T.G. then all the girls in the age groups should be offered to attend, if there is a lot of interest than more than 1 team should be entered, the amount of paper work to achieve this is minimal and that is what a club as a whole does. this "coach" is only interested in those that he is friendly with or those that he deems worthy, and therefore no longer should be allowed to use the TOP GUNS brand. If Bill does not understand that , Shannon should look for someone other than him to run her club, remember It's her name that attracts members ,not his. It obviously creates animosity within the club and any decent director would put his friendships aside and do what is best for the club as a whole.

Yeah, sure - "from an outsiders point of view"..I love those! We're pretty sure you're in the TG program. If not, you have WAY too much time on your hands to analyze this, in such detail!