BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

They are based up in NJ, so they probably won’t respond.

Venom parent go back to your forum.

ONCE IN HIGH SCHOOL . . . if a kid is planning to take a PG year I don't see anything wrong with him playing on a team that reflects his PG graduation.

2 reasons:
- There's a disincentive to lie about intent. If the HS kid is not planning on doing a PG year, playing down crushes their chances of being recruited with his actual graduation year. So I think it's reasonable to assume that folks that are doing this are definitely planning on doing a PG year.
- Once the kids are in HS, all of the kids are going to be playing against older upperclassmen in school. The safety concerns about playing against older kids are not a concern in school, so it shouldn't bother folks in club.

I'm still concerned about the LE situation for 2 reasons:
- The tourney rules clearly stated that it was based on grade. So this was clearly against the rules in this tourney and there should be consequences.
- I'm not sure if going into 9th grade qualifies as being in HS. Not sure if the rules for next year's tourneys are different, but I think they should be.

My kid is not doing a PG year and is not even a holdback. Just trying to see it from the perspective of the PG parent. Going forward this should be a non-issue for youth players as they are finally going age-based, but I think the HS conversation is more nuanced. And reclass parents that are outraged by this should calm down.

It is pretty simple..2028 Division means 2028 Division. If players who are not holdbacks are playing in the 2028 Division that are 2027 or older then it is against rules. Not sure how anyone can or would prove if a player intends to hold back or not but I would think it would be the responsibility of any coach or organization to play by the rules. If you are bringing in kids that are older and are not holding back to simply win a T-Shirt then shame on the organization and coach. That is pretty sad. But it happens far too often.

Madlax has been doing that for years with the Madlax Monuments, etc

This is utterly absurd. Based on this justification— every parent in America could say ,”yeah, I think Little Johnny’s gonna do a PG year after high school. He’s currently a 2027, but since his 5th year of high school will actually happen in 2028, I think he’ll just play down a year for the next 4 years in the 2028 division.”

And then 4 years from now, when Little Johnny has been playing down against kids younger, smaller, and generally at a big disadvantage, he says, “gee, mommy, I don’t want to do another year of high school, I’m ready to go to college.” And off he goes, with his 2027 brethren— meanwhile, he played down for 4 years in high school.

If I had to guess, you’re a dad of one of these cheaters. And yes, this is cheating. If your kid wants to reclass, go for it. Monahans the rules. Hold him back, he can repeat a grade. Figure that one out and make him do it. But don’t BS us with “little Johnny plans on holding back AFTER high school, so he should start playing down 4 years before that actually happens— if it ever even does happen.”

Scram.

With that reasoning, why not play down two years if you intend to do a PG and then intend to redshirt in college,

If you dropped down a grade already, then it is what it is and you get your advantage and are within the rules.

When did lacrosse parents and coaches become psychics that can predict the future ? What if lacrosse isnt what it is to player in 12 grade and he decides to go straight to college. Lacrosse and mainly private schools have given it the reputation it has for players that cant compete within their age group.

Leading Edge goalie this past weekend at NAL is a 2027 that played and started on the varsity of Rumson Fair-Haven this past spring. He is not taking some future PG year. They are just flat defying the rules and doing what they want without consequence. Go research it yourself if you have the time. The rosters are public. The goalie has an Instagram account with high school pictures. It's just so very lame.

Funny thing is... the goalie is very very good. He doesn't need to play 2028. He is used to seeing high school velocity. He's great actually.

There are apparently 3-4 other kids that played down for LE this weekend. Same sort of documentation exists.

Maybe it's just audacity to do it and not give a F that makes people mad. This is a step behind a reclassed holdback summer birthday kid.

Also, it's 2024..someone spends thousands of dollars to travel the tournament and gets beat (hosed) by a team using illegible players...might catch a lawsuit by some rich Cali dad.

Since we are on the subject of holdbacks and reclasses and cheating and bending the rules, I have a question.
Has there ever been a reclass parent to come on here and admit it. Just curious if anyone ever talked about their reclass journey and the decision making process. Probably too painful to talk about I assume.

“Yea I reclassed my kid back because I knew it would make him look better. He was just not at that top tier and the only way I could get him there was to make him play against younger kids. I knew I would be able to justify it by saying that you play against older kids in high school.”

Something like that? Wanna make BOTC history? Any takers?

Wait till you get to HS and there are 40+ kids coming into each recruiting class and jv and varsity rosters top off at 40-55 kids. Grab some pine, kid!

Im a holdback parent. Nothing makes me more angry than these PG parents. They should have done the right thing and reclassed early so they could dominate younger kids all through youth lacrosse. Now we get to HS and these 27’s start showing up and pushing my kid around. It’s not right.

From my experience with fellow MIAA parents - 90% will flatly DENY it until their son makes varsity in 10th grade and suddenly it looks like an amazing judgment on their part. Then quickly they become very comfortable and confident with the fact and will openly volunteer it, as part of their "my son's on varsity" victory tour. There's 2028 parents who frequent this board who have had their sons remove "birthday posts" on IG because suddenly Lil Braydenn was 15 in Feb 2024. Look at the quality of players doing the WSYL (or equivalent) last year. The games looked like Hoco AAA ball (which, oddly, is still some of the best lax being played in the country at the MS age). But it's not FCA Blue vs Crabs vs LE vs 91LI. That's for sure.

My older son played on a high level team in PA during HS and it was clear that the top 6-8 players in 9th grade (on the team) either hit puberty at age 9, or were holdbacks. Turns out it was technically neither - they were "late start" kids in PA, which is allowed. Kind of like the Country version of Pre-First. But those parents in 9th grade would look you in the eye and tell you their son was "on age for his class" or "not a holdback, we don't do that." Then as about the top 4-5 kids blossomed into solid D-1 recruits in the summer after 10th grade, they were like, "Oh yeah we made the call, it was very strategic on our part because we knew he should athletic potential very early." Sure, Jan.

My continuing issues with holdbacks, as the parent of 2 on-age players, are - #1 play by the rules. Holdbacks, even 2X holdbacks, DO play by the rules (sort of), this "pre-holdback playing down" does NOT play by the rules. #2 own it. Own that you did something to get an advantage, rather than spending your time defending how "it's no big advantage, get over it, by 9th grade we all have to play older kids." If there was no big advantage you wouldn't do it...annual tuition at every MIAA school has increased by $5-10K in the past 5 years. That's just the markup!!!! We all have and make levels of privilege in our lives. Own that you held back your MIAA son. Own that you intentionally bought a house in the best school district in a 15 mile radius. Those things generate advantages for our kids (arguably one of our major jobs as parents) and it's the most juvenile thing ever, to pretend your kid just showed up, a year older, at a private school by chance, or that your kids randomly walked into the best public high schools in America in MoCo in September. If this was all random and not engineered by parents, school enrollment in Baltimore City and PG County wouldn't be rapidly declining, with enrollment in other counties (and private schools) increasing.

Thank you so much for that well thought out and insightful response to my request. And you understood my point. They never ever admit it. It’s so sad. Just own it.

Their goalie finished his freshman year at Rumson Fair Heaven and was a starter on varsity- a very talented young man

EXCELLENT response.
Own it, holdbacks.

I know '29 and below is age verification but when are 2028+ kids who plan to PG allowed to play with their recruiting class v their grade?

NAL is excited to announce the dates for this year’s Summer Youth Invitational during the weekend of June 8th and 9th, 2024 at Kirkwood Soccer Complex and Chase Field House for teams in the graduating class of 2028, 2029, 2030, 2031, 2032 and 2033.

For the graduating Class of 2028, age verification is not required but USA Lacrosse Membership is required to participate in the event. Players are only allowed to participate on one team throughout the course of the event and no waivers will be granted to players outside of the 15 month birth window.

These are the official rules from the NAL "Summer Youth Invitational"

So if you are playing for the 2028 but are a 2027 grad year but your birthday is within that 15 month window you are fine to play down. If your a 2027 and are out of that 15 month window you cant play down. So a freshman in high School could play for the 8th grade team if his birthday is within that 15 month window as stated above. Follow the rules correct? What are you supposed to follow if not the official rules on the website? If everyone doesn't like it the NAL and NLF should change the rules.

Says "for the graduating class of 2028" right? If you are 2027 grad class, regardless of birthday, you are not eligible and not "fine to play down". 2028 class AND in the 15 month birth window are the rules. Nice try, cheater.

What about the World Series teams that have a mix of grades because it is based solely on age? I've never heard of them being prevented from competing in certain events due to grade as well.

They are NOT allowed to do that. Period. Theybhave to actually reclass.
Bottom line, if you were in the 9th grade this past May, and will be in 10th grade this September— you cannot play 2028.

Are you really that dense? No— the age is to prevent double holdbacks, NOT TO ALLOW KIDS IN 2027 TO PLAY IN 2028. Wow, you seriously interpret it that way???? What’s your name, we can schedule a call with NAL or US Lacrosse folks to explain it to you, very clearly.

seriously. What a clown 🤡

Yeah, guess I read that wrong. Don't call me a cheater as this doesn't affect me at all. Good luck

anyone who is currently in or just finished 9th grade, yet played in 2028 at NAL, is a CHEATER who deserves to be shamed. I will not post the 2027 goalie's name on this forum, but I have learned the name from social media and my son and his friends are doing their part to make sure the label "cheater" follows him through his HS and college career.

But that said, it is annoying that NAL didn't publish its rules more clearly. Most tournaments define what 2028 means, which is somebody currently enrolled in that class in school. If all they say is "Class of 2028," then that opens the door for cheaters such as the 2027 goalie to say "well, by the time I graduate HS in four years I will probably/maybe be in the class of 2028, so in the meantime I may as well play 2028." So shame on NAL and Leading edge and this kid!

in my humble opinion, never, because it is still breaking the rules and it opens the door for anyone to play down. some people would look the other way if a player played down summer before junior year, which is where college recruiting begins.

but back to the case at hand, it is a HUGE deal for a ninth grade goalie, who has the starter on a HS varsity, and facing shots by 18-19 year old seniors all spring, to drop down and play against 8th graders. what a person.

Got it. I was asking as I didn't know if there was an "official" rule on post-graduates.

Honestly my experience is that especially in the mid-tier and lower tier tournaments, there are hilarious loopholes like this, which the tourney organizer SURELY knows about, and then you have somebody like LE (or unscrupulous out of state programs like 757 Select) absolutely manipulate and ignore them as if they just learned the english language.

My son guest played on a team where 757 Select from VA had a 2028 team. However in that bracket, the club *also* placed their 2027 team, based on a tournament rule that said, "if you have a rec team that bases rosters on birthdays, you can calculate your roster's average birthday as follows, and bracket your team that way." So their 2027 roster ended up as something like 2 2026s, 8 2027s, and 11 2028s, so they played them at 2028. 757 Select is a non-inclusive club program of Norfolk Collegiate? or Christian? Academy, coached by the staff of that school's lax program. It is *not* an "age based rec program."

In fact, the tournament even made the 757 2027s play the 757 2028s in the 2028 bracket (basically a 26/27/28 team playing a 28/29 team)....and it was a whooping of biblical proportions. how fun is that? How'd you like to be that 2028 coach, like, "thanks buddy." The 2026s/2027s won the 2028 bracket and gladly stood up there with their medals hahahahahahahahaha.

I sometimes say, Maryland lacrosse culture is the absolute worst, except for every other east coast state. On that day, Virginia won!

I don't know what's more depressing, the fact that "Scram" Dad is back, or the fact that he is 1000% correct on this one.

Oh sure, looking at you "reading the words" and "understanding their plain meaning." No one has time for that jibber jabber here, Poindexter.

Ok, NAL Anti-Holdback Karen I'll bite: What holdback-free team does your son play for? Guarantee you are fine with the holdbacks on his team. Do you encourage your kids to label their teammates CHEATERS too? Hawks parents whine: '1.) Our holdbacks aren't that big. 2.) Our holdbacks held back for legitimate reasons. 3.) Our holdbacks aren't as old as some of these other holdbacks.' Bottom line: Hawks use holdbacks to gain a competitive advantage. But they get really upset when other teams do same thing.

If you are are a 26 and plan to PG, you aren't a PG 27 recruit until you enroll at a PG school.
Pretty clear and obvious.
Intentions don't hold up in court.

So you cannot play club lacrosse after you graduate as a senior , before you go to PG? (According to the rules, you have to play with the grade you just graduated from)

That grade won’t be playing anymore…

You’re totally off base. Thisnis not about holdbacks. Old backs are allowed. Part of the game. What’s NOT ALLOWED is aging tunnel bold back R years from now, but in the meantime, play down a grade. That’s CHEATNG, Chad.

As soon as age rules came into play, Hawks organization went from winning multiple HoCo grades to only winning one. Hawks have been cheating on age kids for years. The 28 team has plenty of kids who should have already been in 9th grade. LE used a kid the same age or younger than multiple Hawks. Quit whining and let the kids play. Entire point of summer lacrosse is to get them ready for high school.

If you are left back 2 times in elementary school, maybe you should just go into the work force to work with your hands, as education might not be your thing

To the parents who are drinking wine and hiding behind computers and threatening kids, be careful, its called cyberbullying. You don't think its possible to track down these anonymous threads to address or cell phone. I'm in the business, its simple and we take cyberbullying very serious. Just relax, they will figure out the rules and make sure ALL teams comply. Careful what you say here. Bullying a kid that you have no idea of the circumstances is not right and you may have someone knocking on your door.

My son, in 7th grade, skipped two grades because his IQ is off the charts. What happens then?

Whats the difference between a kid who repeats a grade and a kid who does a PG year? They would both be a year older than their "class" and get to college at the same time so either ban both or allow both.

I am not the PP, and I am not a Karen, but I am happy to answer your question. My son's team definitely has holdbacks, as do all elite level teams. No dispute there. But whether people like it or not, holdbacks are allowed under the rules of grade based tournaments. A player could be 15, or theoretically even older, and he is eligible to play 2028 if he is currently enrolled in that grade in school. But if he is enrolled in the grade above (ie, finishing up 9th grade right now) that is against the rules and is what people have been calling cheating.
Cheating doesn't always give a competitive advantage, as you could have a crappy 9th grade player who would not make a difference in an elite level 8th grade game, especially when many of the 8th graders are holdbacks. It would still be cheating, but few would notice and only the biggest Karen in the world would bother to complain.
But in this case, the cheater was a starting HS varsity goalie who had played against and practiced with HS players all spring, so that is not only cheating, it gave Leading Edge a huge advantage in an 8th grade tournament. Usually when somebody is wrong, and they know it, they resort to name calling ("Karen"), and you seem to be in that place right now.

Any movement amongst teams. Hearing DC Express and Next Level are approaching 30 kids. Good Luck seeing the field boys.

Just out of curiosity, what year did your son get cut from the Hawks?