BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Coach here. Players...especially youth players...learn the most at high stress, high engagement, with the occasional dopamine hit. Whats a good metric for that?

A good club coach and director are laser focused on it....a PF-PA of close to zero. There are teams who are up 30+ goals and down 30+ goals this fall. Neither group of kids are improving. The team who's scored 35 and given up 39 is learning much faster.

91 Youth Teams have been getting pasted in HOCO. Generally ending with a 10/80 GF/GA ratio. I know multiple kids that have left the team because losing by those margins is taking all the fun out of the sport.

Where’s ML for NAL? They really playing B tournaments all fall?

They are in the Sunday bracket with FCA.

Madlax
West Coast Stars
Sweetlax Upstate
Dukes Elite
FCA MD
Mad Dog National
Prime Time
Sweetlax Fla
Thunder
Brotherly Love

Pretty good competition for Madlax I'd say............

Saturday Bracket (Blue)
3d New England 2029 Red
***Annapolis Hawks 2029 Green
Igloo 2029 Alpine Drift
Leading Edge 2029
LI Express Moran 2029
Mad Dog National 2029 Black
Mooselax 2029 Orange
West Coast Starz 2029 Gold

Saturday Bracket (Red)
BBL Black 2029
BBL Shore 2029
Express NORTH 2029 Black
Legacy Predators 2029
Sweetlax Florida 2029
Sweetlax Upstate 2029
Thunder 2029 Blue
***True Chesapeake Black 2029

How will a champion be decided, will Saturday teams have to come back for Sunday?

"Making kids detest lacrosse forever" isn't unique to 91, but the mechanism that causes it (losing most games through 8th grade by 10-15 points because director refuses to play lower)) seems unique to 91.

It's just two separate one day tournaments.

I am of the belief that these fall tournaments really shouldn't count for much. Kind of like fall ball in college. Teams change so much with players, coaches, maturity. It's a good baseline for the spring and where to start. Should these games/tournaments even count for rankings purposes? Any thoughts. Looking for good conversation, not team bashing.

Unfortunately they will count! You know the certain teams will enter weak tournaments and run up the score to establish their top ranking, while the top teams play each other in low scoring games.

I noticed that last year. Its a little deceptive thinking your playing a team for the first time who might be a power and suddenly its the opposite. I am guessing that this is how these clubs recruit. Using the national rankings as "marketing". No need for the really good teams to worry about rankings they just beat wh ever comes their way.

Am I not correct in thinking that the way the formula works that a close loss to a top 15 team has more value in rankings than beating a team ranked in the 200’s by 10 or more goals.

Looking at last year's rankings - a tie against the 20th ranked team would be worth about the same as beating the 190th ranked team by 10. There are definitely mid level teams that play down in competition and run up the score to end up with a questionably high ranking.

If I controlled the rankings I would lower the maximum goal differential limit to 5 or 6 to make them more accurate and reduce the reward for running up the score.

Yes...this question and the "club marketing" response above really answer the question of "Why does 91 let their youth teams get torched?" Because they can go 3-16 in 8th grade and still be ranked in the top 75, because they lost to good teams (teams they had no business playing).

This isn't how the ranking algorithms work at all. It's the same concept as used in basketball or football. There is a math tab on the rankings which explains. If the #3 team plays the number #120 team - the rankings have a number that show how much #3 is expected to win by. IF they are supposed to win by 10, and "only" win by 8, their ranking points goes down. IF they win by 12, their points go up. The "tie against the 20th ranked team would be worth about the same as beating the 190th ranked team by 10" is not how it works. At all.

Here's the link to the explanation page: https://www.USCL.com/faq

This is exactly how the ranking algorithm works. The points a team earns for a game is the "Rating" of the opponent +/- the goal differential in the game. In the example provided, the #20 team ended up with a Rating of 94.82 and the #190 team ended up with a Rating of 84.87. If team C ties the team with a Rating of 94.82 then team C earns 94.82 "Points" for the game. If team C beats the 84.87 team by 10 they earn 94.87 (84.87 + 10) Points for the game. So those results are roughly equivalent for team C's rankings.

Listen.....my opinion is that here in Maryland rankings don't really matter. Kids care because they can't think straight through social media addiction. Parents just want to gossip and talk about it.

But......just like with High School lacrosse......no one cares about National Rankings.....all that matters is the MIAA Championship. If you asked the top club teams in this area, they would gladly prioritize winning the HOCO Elite Championship over any tournament victory or club ranking.

Parents and players getting [Censored] into Club Rankings which have no legitimacy and are ultimately for their monetary benefit and stir. Are we going to rank Red Hots National and Club Nationals as the top two 2029 teams in the country now?? Why?? They shouldn't even be ranked because the events they participate in don't adhere to age verification like everyone else is supposed to be aligning to. How can you fairly rank those??

It's all bologna and we the parents are getting hood winked and more addicted to it. Are coaches try to remind us of this constantly.

GREAT comment! There is no pot of gold at the end of the rankings rainbow.

I mostly agree but it is nice having some kind of ranking system to give you an idea of the level of competition you face when you're at a tournament or looking for a new team that is a better fit for your kid's level of play. It also helps coaches/directors make sure their teams are placed in the right brackets. Worrying about a team that gets ranked higher than yours is a total waste of time though. It's meant to be an estimation.

This!

My opinion is there are plenty of kids that reclass to attend an MIAA school. Yet somehow you get your panties in a bunch over the kids that reclass before yours does. First world problems of MD lacrosse.

It’s just an algorithm based on score from the Tourney app. It becomes relatively accurate during the Summer, with more data to process. Some coaches can get cute by changing their team name (ML 2028) but most don’t.

Whaaaaat? You mean "2028 DC Monuments Winter 22-23" is not a legitimate stand-alone club roster? Heresy!

Interesting to see the top HOCO Elite teams battling at NAL this past weekend.

Hawks lost
True Chesapeake lost
FCA lost
Madlax lost

Was at the NAL event on Saturday with True Chesapeake. The biggest difference I saw was the size and athleticism of some of these 7th graders, especially on the state wide and national teams. Age Verification has ruled out holdbacks at the 2029 level, so not complaining, just was incredible to see the size, speed and strength of some of these kids. I guess if someone put together a state-wide Maryland team you’d be able to have the same thing.
Great tournament thought with a lot of talented teams. 3d New England was very good and it was the first time I saw someone really take it to the Hawks.

I watched Hawks vs 3d game assuming it would be unofficial championship. The hawks got hawked, did they lose a bunch of players from last year?

Was this NAL event an age verified event? Those 3D and WCS teams had some very big boys.

Off day for the Hawks Offense.

It’s going to be a long year for them if they can’t make the simple passes. Was shocked at how many unforced errors they committed and lack of offensive threats. Wasn’t impressed with defense either. Supplemental tryouts this winter???

"Wasn't impressed with defense either???" They didn't allow more then 5 goals per game.i'll take that any day. Offense was Off for the one game and lost to the champs. All good. They will be just fine.

They lost 6-1 to 3d New England......

OK no more than 6 goals! Hahahaha!

Was at NAL on Sunday and saw Madlax and FCA play. Madlax looked tiny compared to the West Coast Starts team they were playing against. Didn't look to have any new players that were difference makers and same old offensive plays that we've all seen. FCA looked smaller as well in the two games I saw them play (Dukes / MadDog). They actually had the lead up 2-0 against eventual champion MadDog National heading into the 4th quarter, before falling 3-2.

Maybe they just grow them bigger out west or you are seeing the difference in size between a "National" team vs. more of a traditional more area based club team. My older son went through this before with the 2027's and every kid is growing at different rates now....but you see the difference in those kids who have hit puberty earlier.

Inside scoop, don’t tell anyone. The national teams recruit bigger and possibly older kids and put them on scholarships, the other 25 kids pay for them and watch them play. If you put your kid on a team that carries more then 25 kids with an open roster with no scholarship, what’s that say about you? Are you doing it for your son’s development or you buying them friends and an experience? I’ll wait

Sounds like you just figured that out. Thanks for sharing.

They find the biggest, fastest, best kids from around the country, put them on a 50 man roster and play the top 15. It’s basically the middle school version of D1.

One could argue that those smaller Madlax and FCA kids competing against more mature kids will be better players when they mature.

But they don’t, they come on here and complain about it.

Ha, spot on. That’s the ‘29 forum in a nutshell.

Isn’t this the truth!!