BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

But why would someone challenge a roster at HoCo for fly ins? As far as I know they are allowed - everyone knew True was doing that last spring. So it would take Ricky to stand up and ban them. Which as I said won’t happen but in theory he has the power to do it. He just won’t.

Won't happen. Who cares anyway- let the best play

That 200 kids isn't just because of FCA's brand, there's a lot of "Sub-elite" to "Rec-Plus" players available in Bmore. When the turnover of old clubs happened in AACO over the last few years (Sidewinders, Diamondbacks, Cutters), prospective club owners seemed to be on top of it (True (2 teams), Prostart, MDLL, Clippers (2 teams). And I'm 100% sure we'll have another AACO club team announced before tryouts next summer.

In Baltimore over the last 3 years we've lost Looneys, Koopers, Green Turtle, Fallston, and Breakers in those lower brackets. The only new clubs, I think, are True and Predators. And Hardshells....for now. There's so many players available that Duke's is even starting up an "I-83 Dukes" team to pull kids in Southern PA and northern Baltimore. "With an opportunity to play for Dukes Elite"....right.

The business question I have, is why prospective club owners in AA County seemed to have the pulse of this opportunity, while others in Baltimore (except Predators) have totally missed it.....or said no to the opportunity. I'm missing a piece of this logic.

I guess the other business question is, since so many sub-elite level players want to play *somewhere*, why do the rec councils all extinguish their programs after 8th grade?

agree that HoCo shouldn't (and won't) ban fly ins. let the best play. But they should think about having a cap on roster size. 24 perhaps? that would prevent teams like True Chesapeake having a big stable of players and flying in a whole new roster for the harder games. that seems to go against the spirit of any league.

It undermines the point and is not apples to apples competition if some teams are essentially playing tournament teams in a local weekly league. That would never happen in hockey or soccer or football or basketball etc. Let the best play - with their local teams in a league and on tournament teams at tournaments.

Correct. It’s True Chesapeake not True Nevada. They still stunk.

Fly-ins are welcome at HoCo. Entire point of these meaningless middle school games are to help the kids get better and prepare them for tough competition when they to high schooler. Going against best 9th graders from out of state is nothing compared to going against best 12th graders in region.

In the future all these players will want to compete Varsity in the MIAA. MIAA Varsity is the land of Sept-Dec on age birthdays and the rest of starters are holdbacks. The rare player born Jan-Aug is just that Rare. Time to hold them back people, stop the excuses.

Omg please no more holdbacks talk. It just is what it is for this age group - ONE more year until they play on high school teams with kids sometimes 3 grades ahead. Let it go.

I don't care if True flies in 15 kids from Crossfit Chernobyl, as long as they are on the final submitted and approved Hoco roster. True - and other teams from A to Elite at 2028 - have felt free to have unrostered kids at Hoco games. It's insane. At least if True is flying in kids and they were rostered on single Hoco league teams as required, those kids won't be playing on 3 different True teams that weekend.

Anything goes it seems at HoCo - including but not limited to - fly ins, unrostered players, parents running the shot clock and actual clock for their own children’s games, etc. - it undermines the validity of the entire enterprise and yet, everyone reveres HoCo as the end all be all. Despite the fact that the inmates are running the asylum - or in the case of 28, it’s really one inmate as allowed by Ricky.

Crossfit Chernobyl - My new favorite quote from BOTC.

HOCO is the main reason we have all this holdback talk and issues. Without them starting a league based on grades 9/10 years ago, instead of age like all their other HOCO leagues, The lacrosse world would still be by age. Disgraceful group of administrators at the time and one in particular who had a holdback son in MIAA at StP

Also, it shouldn’t be up to a coach to ‘challenge’ the roster of whoever his team is playing against. The kids should have to send proof of age to the governing body of the sport, get verified, and receive some sort of proof back that then either lives online or goes with them to every game the play - just like soccer and hockey. The concept of roster fudging and illegal guest players and even holdbacks in general is just not a thing for any other sport. Don’t put the onus on the coaches to challenge and enforce the rules.

You are so naive. If you’re cheating, be prepared to get called out. No coach is going to call for roster check unless he’s 99.9% certain. Won’t happen often but when it does, it’s likely already known

I agree with most of what you say above but make no mistake basketball has similar issues with holdbacks in travel leagues with loose enforcement. Granted not a contact support so some of safety issues are lessened but to say lacrosse is alone on not enforcing roster/age limits is a reach.

They need to run HoCo like they do the football league. State ID’s for players that’s are checked against rosters before every game by team managers.

State ID’s for youth lacrosse games? You’re kidding us, right? We can’t even make people show an ID when voting for President of the United States.

I don’t know what is naive about what was said but trust that no coach wants to be that guy - and they shouldn’t have to be.

Yet every single game in youth football, the players line up, are weighed, and roster is checked with IDs in hand of team manager. Every single game played in the youth football league that the Warhawks play in. It is as simple as that. If the youth football league can get it done, I would think the lacrosse league could as well, don't you?

Soccer does this too - not a big deal at all.

So clueless.

Typical lax derf parent.

0.0% chance of this ever happening. Not saying it shouldn’t. Just saying it won’t. But hey, you should go talk to Ricky about getting it done

Agree 0.0% chance - which is interesting because every single team except 2 in this level of HoCo for this age group would be fine with doing it.

Let's change the subject!!! What tournaments is everyone playing in? Practice should be starting in two to three weeks.

Agreed, dude needs to get out of bubble - multi-sport approach is better for parents as well as kids, apparently.

New to the page, but we are family in the northern Baltimore area. It’s dry here for less than elite/aaaa $$$ lacrosse. We lost so many teams. It’s hard to find something for the AA/A/B kid

As a coach and a 2028 dad, yes we shouldn't HAVE TO but I'm really bummed out that so many coaches REFUSE TO even when parents and players are telling them in advance of the game, "We know that kid, I teach his 8th grade class, why is he here with 7th graders?"

IMHO the coaches are way to into themselves and whatever "brotherhood" they think they have, not wanting to insult other coaches. Instead we result to these platitudes like "We'll play whoever shows up!" (how dense is that, when you know the other team has broken the rules before the game even started) or "We don't play against one player, we play against a team!" Again, which sounds great except when a kid who's not on the roster, and doesn't have on a full uniform (or whose gear bag says "2027"), is throwing missiles to top right over and over.

Club lax is a business. Parents are the customers, and the boys improving and showcasing their talent is the product. If you, as a coach, just can't find it in yourself to challenge what seems to be a good hunch on a roster violation, then you're risking a reduction in the quality of your product (and customer service). Be willing to be the bad guy for once - and to other grown men, not just to 13 year olds. Leadership....it's a real thing.

Well said

If your kid is enrolled at Boy's Latin and has good size Crabs will take him. They also have a B team. If your kid is enrolled at St. Paul's Predators will take him...they don't cut any St. Paul's kids regardless of skill, etc.. I would start with those two programs.

I don’t think it’s about a brotherhood between coaches - which does not exist at least in this age group, these guys can’t stand eachother. I think the issue is the message the coaches want to send the kids which for my sons coach was a huge deal. The coach wants the kids to go out and play their best and hardest regardless of who is on the other team. So it’s hard to send that message while also taking issue with who is on the other team. Which is why it should not be up to these coaches to inquire about or enforce these rules. The teams are also the customers of HoCo and the easiest and least awkward way to do anything would be for Ricky to sack up and set a precedent and try to ensure the quality of his league rather than cater to one club and what is now for 28 an actual need for fly ins.

Kelly Post and LTRC still exist. Check there.

HLC (Hereford) also has a B team of "good kids" that is in sore need of talent. If your son can play, he'll have plenty of opportunity to play there. It's one of the lower teams for this age group, in "B" league.

Kelly Post / MDLL, Lutherville LTLC, Predators and Crabs B team (if your son has size, as someone else said) are all "OK" options for a year at the A, AA, AAA level. Kids who can play will have a chance to play.

HLC and LTLC are two viable options for sure. HLC has two teams, AA and B and LTLC plays in the A.

There is cheating (using older kids who are not allowed) and there is breaking the rules (traveling in basketball, cross checking in hockey, slashing in lacrosse). It’s about intent. Cheating should get CALLED out by a coach, players, whoever knows it happening. Period.

There will never be age checked as the elite lacrosse comes out of private schools. The private schools ( MIAA) are the kingdom of holdbacks. The talk all the time about character education , yet show very little character when it comes down to their children playing against younger children.

Still not quite as ironic as Fellowship of Christian Athletes teams being the leaders of the holdback wars; they'd have Goliath playing SSDM and David would be on Hardshells.

I guess they can always ask for forgiveness?

are we talking about reclassed 2027's who are now 2028's, or kids who are still in the 2027 class playing down?

The latter is cheating, the former is following a rule that many don't like. let's not confuse the two.

Same rehashed argument as always - it's normal reclass kids. You can both take advantage of a rule and want it changed at the same time. Lots of AL baseball managers hated the DH but they weren't gonna trot out their SP to hit on principle.