BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Girls High School

If liberty is so good why aren’t they ranked higher than MV or even Glenelg?

A lot of coaches could have done it with that roster.
Balt Sun final rankings - 3 for CC (+2 also considered) v. 2 AA (+0 also considered).That's one way to measure. Outside of Broadneck and SP, AA is weak whereas CC has MV, Liberty, Westminster, SC, and Century - with MV and Century joining Glenelg in the region of death of 3 teams that are almost always title quality.

AA County:
3A State Champs
4A State Champs (three straight years)
1A (1 team, won Region 1, lost to State runnerup by 3)
No 2A schools

Pretty close to being even I'd argue, even side with AACo given the bigger schools are better overall.

Carroll County:

1A State Champ beat 4A State Champ in regular Season.
2A State Champ beat Westminster by 14 at their place, not in overtime by 1. Beat 2 AA schools by a combined 39-3, including a Regional Winner (NE) 21-0. Also beat SR 18-3, a team SP gave up 13 goals to
3A Team lost to AA State Champ by 1 in OT
4A no teams, but the 4th and 5th place team in Carroll (2A Century & 1A South Carroll) would be a top 3 team in 4A and would challenge both Broadneck and Dulaney.

1A and 4A are, by far, the weakest of the 4 divisions. Severna Park is good, but i don' think AA has overall quality or quantity despite having 6 more schools. SP would finish top 3 in Carroll, Broadneck would be in a battle for a top 3 finish. No one else in AA would get within 8/10 goals of the top 5 teams in Carroll.

How many (if any) of the Carroll County teams would be affected if the county did allow students to go to any HS in the county? That is a HUGE advantage that no other county has. There are magnet schools in Baltimore County but not many kids are going to go to Hereford for 4h, Carver for the arts or Dulaney for HVAV.

Students are allowed to go to any school in the county, besides fully capacity Man Valley, as long as they can provide transportation. Many good kids in the FSK district end up at SC, Liberty, or Century.

With that said, no super team has ever been created and 99% of the kids stay at the school they are zoned for.

In addition - AA County has 14 schools, CC has 7. Carroll Co has won a state championship in girls lax in 17 consecutive years, AA Co in 5 consecutive.

Overall, CC has the edge.

AA County has much more diversity in population, half of those schools aren't really lacrosse "schools", per say.

Some schools in AACo are much more baseball/softball. That being said, doesn't change the fact that SP/Broadneck and in some years, Arundel, South River, Southern have elite teams.

Sure, you can give the edge to Carroll for reasons listed above, but Liberty beating Broadneck by a goal shouldn't be some major talking point.

When is COTY announced?

AA is first having won 26 of the 93 State titles, They won their first in 1990, the first year there was a championship. This year was the first time AA has ever doubled up titles. Their longest title streak is 9 straight years
Howard is second with 25. Having doubled up only 1 time (2005). Their longest title streak is 13 straight years
Carroll is third having won 23 of the 93 State Titles. They Won their first in 2005, didn't win one in 2006, and have won at least 1 title each year 2007-2023 (17 years and counting). Including, winning 2 titles titles the same year 5 times.

From 2000 to today Carroll leads AA 23-19
From 2005 (Carroll's first champ year) to today. Carroll leads 23-15

4 of 13 AA schools have ever won a state title (SP 15 titles, Broadneck 6 titles, Annapolis 3 Titles, SR 2 Titles)

6 of 7 (6 of 8 if you count closed North Carroll) have won a title. Century leads with 9, WM/MV with 4 each, Liberty win the last 3, Westminster with 2, and South Carroll with 1.


If you go from the start of MPSSAA lax the edge goes to AA, but if you look at it from when they actually painted enforceable boundaries on the field, Carroll has been the leader.

At this point AA has 2 teams that are in the running (Annapolis and SR have fallen off the title path), Carroll has 5 (winters mill has fallen).

Absolutely. And CC has 1-2 of the 7 that are not really lacrosse schools, persay. Not sure if AA Co or CC won a state title in baseball or softball this year.

Most counties have some consistently good programs and every once in a while, a run of elite programs.

But for overall performance, 17 straight years of state champs is pretty persuasive. I am not arguing Liberty v SP, I honestly think they are very even and would be a great game. But CC is def ahead of AA Co, and I don't even live in either, so no bias, just a perspective.

Inside Lacrosse just posted the college women’s rule change recommendation. Many of these proposed changes came from Jen Levy. The rules were fine when she was going undefeated and winning championships. Her team lost several games this year and now she wants changes. When Northwestern beat them during the regular season, Levy complained about the rough style of play and almost immediately called for changes. Talk about a cry baby.

Yawn. Only way to grow the game is to change things up every now and again. Every sport does it.

Jen Levy proposed the bulk of these changes originally back in 2021, before her last Championship. I agree with most, but not all of them. I don't get the reduction to 11 players and also increasing the distance the defender is allowed to be from the opposing player inside the 8. Increasing the things that get you a 1 minute penalty should help clean things up a lot. I'm especially happy to see a proposed 1 min penalty for simulation. In either case, the game is getting too physical to continue playing without a helmet or pads. So if they want to keep the helmet and padless games, rule changes are needed.

Rules don't need to change officiating needs a refresher course. If the game is officiated properly there is no need for helmets or pads. The rules for women's lacrosse are not subjective. Call the game with in the rules. The one rule change I am all for is when carded the player needs to immediatley leave the playing field. So many players this year slowly walked off when carded. It's disrespectful

I don't see the reduction in players being approved.

"Rules don't need to change officiating needs a refresher course."

Correct. Some refs seem to forget screens cannot be approached from behind and a horitizonal stick is not allowed when setting a screen.

Also, loose goggles to draw a penalty should also be a YC. Same as unbuckled chin strap in football, it should be a penalty.

POY and COY got posted today.. Did co-POY this year instead of just one. Happy to see Liberty coach on there, he has been through so much. Hope to see the best for his wife

Good. Co-POY right thing to do since several others would have scored 100+ goals and controlled 100+ draws for Man Valley with that schedule (lefty attack freshman for Maryvale, as one clear example).

When does Metro POY and COY come out?

Get outta here. The Man Val girl absolutely deserved it and she's an absolute beast of a player. Not a MV or MnD parent either...but we play them enough!

MV played 6 games against the VSN/Baltimore Banner top 15, Maryvale played 5
MV played 8 games against the Baltimore Sun Top 15+others considered, Maryvale played 6. If you removed the others considered, MV played 4 and Maryvale 5.

Is the poll perfect. Absolutely not. But MV didn't play a joke schedule at all.

I will concede the depth of the IAAM, but when it comes to the players taking the draw and on the circle, the top publics have a ton of fire power. Many games the MV girl was against the other team's top senior going to top D1 and still dominated. She is a beast.

She is definitely very good. No way she has same stats with an Iaam team. Have to share the ball with better teammates and in my opinion the middle 3rd of Iaam would beat the best publics.
Publics would beat most of bottom 5 this year.

You shouldn’t comment if you didn’t actually watch Man Valley play. “She” had the most assist in the county and “she” did most her damage against top 15 ranked teams. I’m not saying IAAM wouldn’t be tougher but the Banner got this one right and I would be shocked if she isn’t the sole metro player of the year for the Balt Sun. Glenelg coach had nothing to gain by saying she was the best player they saw all year public or private and they played McDonough.

So Glenelg coach is the best evaluator of all ? I think she is outstanding too. Best player in CC by far. If she played at MCD she would still be outstanding. Just no way to score 5 goals a game vs better defenses and coaching schemes. I also KNOW that public schools are down in talent ! Each public has 2- 3 good players and rest are d2-d3 talent. The metro top 15 has cute little rankings too but I don’t think MV finishes in top 5 of IAAM.

The Century, MV, & SC coaches have all been there for 10+ years at their schools, playing challenging schedules (including beating IAAM teams) and winning a lot more than losing. They all coach at top clubs, and the MV coach even was on ESPN last summer head coaching in the world championship. The Westminster coach is 2 years out of a top D1 school. The Liberty coach just won COY. None of these schools have teachers in the building or a parent from the community that are forced to coach. Their schemes aren't vanilla.

Little old Carroll County with their crappy grass fields, stadiums that smell of manure from the adjacent farms, average defenses, and simple coaching schemes produced 2 players on the US Gold medal team (defenders none-the-less). The HS coaches of these 2 are still at their respective schools. The best conference in the country produced 1.

There are also far less female students in Carroll County compared to the IAAM A and no ability to recruit the "best of the best."

Now would the top teams in CC win the IAAM. I highly doubt it, but they would absolutely make the playoffs. Carroll County lacrosse isn't Washington county or Calvert county or even Harford county.

I would love to see some CC teams on IAAM schedules next year. Hopefully, a couple of teams will be moved down to B conference and the A teams will be able to schedule more out of conference games. They are limited to 18 non playoff games and, with 15 teams, that means just 4 out of conference games. So it's hard to fit in all the games they would like.

Biggest issue is what rules to play by. Heard publics don’t want to play the shot clock and crease rules. Some public coaches are afraid of losses too as it affects home playoff seeding.

Not the case for all public schools, I can tell you some privates won't schedule a tough public school game. I know one school who tried to schedule mid tier A league IAAM and no one would take the game. MCD, SP, Maryvale can only schedule so many games and can't fit in everyone. All this chest pounding from IAAM parents is kind of amusing given the lack of willingness of some schools to schedule a tough public school opponent.

Then those coaches are holding their players back from playing the game that will be expected of them in college.

Not the case for all public schools, I can tell you some privates won't schedule a tough public school game. I know one school who tried to schedule mid tier A league IAAM and no one would take the game. MCD, SP, Maryvale can only schedule so many games and can't fit in everyone. All this chest pounding from IAAM parents is kind of amusing given the lack of willingness of some schools to schedule a tough public school opponent.[/quote]

all string public school teams want shot clocks

all string public school teams want shot clocks[/quote]
I call BS. Name the IAAM schools not willing to play a public school. Or just name the one school you "know" won't play publics.

It’s because those privates are scared. They then turn around and schedule ABC , Visitation ,GC ,Stab or travel out of state trips to play other areas top teams. Glenelg and Centuey seems to get on teams schedule way faster than other publics. I’m guessing your coach isn’t asking the right privates.

I call BS. Name the IAAM schools not willing to play a public school. Or just name the one school you "know" won't play publics.[/quote]

I agree this is BS especially without any specifics.

NDP and McD both played Glenelg this year ... at Glenelg and without a shot clock. The three AA schools usually have SP or Broadneck on their schedules. With 4 slots for out of conference games, sometimes it probably comes down to trouble scheduling. The top IAAM teams always add nationally ranked teams whenever possible. Some agree to multi year home and away arrangements. It isn't about being scared. I would love to have MV or MR or Century added to some IAAM schedules. I have no idea how it happens but I assume it starts with the coaches and ADs. But the conference schedule always takes priority as well as any games on a Spring Break trip.

I agree this is BS especially without any specifics.

NDP and McD both played Glenelg this year ... at Glenelg and without a shot clock. The three AA schools usually have SP or Broadneck on their schedules. With 4 slots for out of conference games, sometimes it probably comes down to trouble scheduling. The top IAAM teams always add nationally ranked teams whenever possible. Some agree to multi year home and away arrangements. It isn't about being scared. I would love to have MV or MR or Century added to some IAAM schedules. I have no idea how it happens but I assume it starts with the coaches and ADs. But the conference schedule always takes priority as well as any games on a Spring Break trip.[/quote]
GCS plays Glenelg every year, Marriotts Ridge sometimes, and multiple public schools from all over in the public vs private challenge every year. And they play the public school rules when they do.

This year 1 "A" private school played a local public 2 days after tryouts and it was agreed to be played as a scrimmage. Private won by only 1 goal and then listed it as a game on website and league site. BS is right as if they would of lost the agreed scrimmage would not have been counted advertised by school as a win.....

Sounds like JC. That game was always listed as a scrimmage. Not sure why it was reported to the league as an official game. It wasn't on the JC website as an official game.

RP losing to Towson mid season is more BS than the JC example.

The teams submit an official schedule to the league so they aren't breaking the rules. It is a rarity that teams would choose which games count based on results.

Public vs. Private in MD is not comparable. 2 different leagues, 2 different rules, recruiting vs not able recruit.

Both the Public and Private in MD is some of the best high school lacrosse in the country.

Scheduling games public vs. private is challenging because of start dates of seasons are different, # of practices required to have a game, when league play begins is different, NFHS Rules vs. NCAA Rules, # of game limitations...

Enjoy that your daughter gets to play some of the best HS lacrosse in the country.

These are all excellent points. Because the MPSSAA has a set first allowable play day, usually when the IAAM has already sdtarted league play, the only way around to match up is to make it a scrimmage. Some treat the scrimmages like games, many treat them like scrimmages and try different things out.

Why did the public school report it as an official game on CountySportsZone?

Please stop. Top publics can beat bottom and some mid A conference teams and thats it. Go to you coach and have them offer to play the top teams using college rules so there is no stalling.