BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Ok, I have read the Next Level roster controversy and would love to hear from someone who knows the specifics. In the meantime, here are some general facts and educated guesses:

(1) a player definitely cannot be rostered on two different HoCo teams, especially the A and B team within the same program; happens all the time in tournaments, but not HoCo; no team would be dense enough to submit rosters with duplicate names, so if Next Level actually did try to cheat with blue players in a red playoff game, they would have slipped them in without being rostered at all;

(2) that is not Next Level's style and I would be very surprised if they did so - but if someone from ProStart or Predators knows the facts, prove me wrong!

(3) it is probably a case of circumstantial evidence - Next Level red over-performed in the playoffs, and Next Level Blue surprisingly missed the playoffs so their players were available, and somebody probably jumped to conclusions;

(4) it is unlikely that someone from a Baltimore team like Predators or Pro Start would recognize Next Level Blue players; those teams never play Next Level Blue, and they are from different geographic regions; the BLC, MadLax, and NL families all know each other, but Predators and Pro Start walk in different circles;

(5) it is also unlikely that Next Level parents would admit to illegal players if there were any chance NL was guilty; usually parents play dense and run for the hills in that situation; but often if they know their roster is 100% legit, then they will feed opposing parents bad information to egg them on to embarrass themselves with an unsuccessful challenge;

(6) if Next Level did use illegal players, then they deserve to get caught, and DQ'd and all the shame; there is precedent - HoCo has actually re-played a game a couple of years ago when a team brought down a goalie from an older division;

(7) it is suspicious that someone started the thread with "go easy on me, I am new to the BOTC" - sounds like a pot stirrer to me.

But let's hear some facts!

FACTS -- every single kid that played in HoCo playoffs for Next Level Red has been playing with Next Level Red all HoCo season.

Yawn. How can there be more than wl2 parents each from NL Red, Predators or Prostart on this board.

Fact: No one on this board cares about Predators.
Accusation: NL double roster.
Fact: Based on the Hoco site, Predators beat all of these teams including whichever combination of NL kids. So it's moot.
Fact: No one still cares about Predators.
Fact: Even fewer people care about Prostart.

Conclusion: This is a boring discussion about AA ball.

Shadow of a doubt has to be there - their 31s had to forfeit a game this season for playing non-rostered kids. If it's happening in one age group, and being talked about in another, there is definitely cause for concern.

Getting into more detail would identify a kid who is just a kid. I don't mind the mudraking but I think it's been thrown adequately.

The NL double rostered red team has tax problems and had to diversify to add blue kids who are triple holdbacks. That was the only way they could defeat the powerhouse Prostart in the semi's.

Gotta love when the Elite "Holdback" Dad craps on every division below Elite. Get a life buddy. I guarantee there are kids in AA/AAA way better than your holdback son. Won't be long until roles are reversed. Karma!

I can quickly put this one to rest. There is zero chance the ego's of the NL Blue parents and kids would ever allow themselves to slum it on the red team.

FACTS - NL, ML, and True all have a documented history of doing this at whatever age group, however "rare" it's not "never" and this kind of culture comes from the top. And Nationals too...and every single Circuit team that played in FL in December...while we're at it.

We have a kid in the 2031 league. I remarked to another parent that I think it's a new record for youngest age roster cheating (and overall pathetic adults). The previous record was True Baltimore 2028 (in 5th grade). New record holders: Next Level 2031 (4th grade). You just love to see those two clubs listed together like this.

Some truly elite leadership, ethics, and sportsmanship.

Is there a younger team in MD that's been caught cheating? Because the story is probably hilarious and I hope nobody went to the hospital.

Excellent point. As a parent on the NL Blue team, I can vouch that is correct! And for what it is worth, my son was not asked to play in the red game, and if his teammates were and he wasn't I would be mad!

Still waiting for real facts.

My hunch is that there was no actual cheating by Next Level, but that ProStart filed a complaint, because it was a #4 beating #1 upset, and the complaint was unfounded. Can someone confirm?

The Next Level cheating in the 2031 class is news to me. Can someone provide details and point to a game on the HoCo scoreboard that went down as a forfeit? and what was the crime exactly?

Word has it NL and ML are convincing their younger families to target childbirth between June - August to optimize holdback strategy. And, women who are currently pregnant but due outside this window have been asked to either delay or accelerate their pregnancy schedules to accommodate this directive. I understand both clubs have all medical professionals throughout the DMV in the OBGYN space on payroll and the docs and nurses are watching these families very closely. I mean will these club directors stop at nothing to win?

NLF and USA lacrosse next year will be on age.
I guess hoco is the only tournament you guys will play next year.

You are an obsessed maniac.

Go back to Colorado.

unfortunately not for the 2028 age group we missed it by a year 😢 https://nationallacrossefederation....-age-verification-to-boys-club-lacrosse/

Here are the facts:

Baltimore Swarm got their butts handed to them by NL early in the season 30-1. BS complained to the league, for what I don’t have a clue.

Pro start was #1 and NL was #2.

1vs2 not 1vs4

If you compare both team schedules and watch the results, the results they were pretty close to one another. they beat the same teams by about the same scores!

The only thing this means is that NLF will be the only tournaments that a lot of these teams will not be playing in. I’m curious how many teams will be backing out of the NLF.

It won’t impact this age group

It also won’t impact this season. The changes will happen next summer.

NL Red dad here. They absolutely were roster checked prior to the start of the Sunday game against Predators. Not sure if it was Preds coach or Prostart coach (who our boys beat the previous day in a close game 10-8) but regardless, not one of the NL Red players are rostered for or play for NL Blue. If you were at the game, you would have seen Preds warming up and our kids standing shoulder-to-shoulder being checked for name/number prior to their warm up. Not one of the kids playing for our team either day were rostered to another team.

Whether this is sour grapes from Prostart or Preds worrying about cheating is irrelevant. Both games were well-contested, clean contests and Preds happened to come out on top 5-4 in the championship. Props to them and we had nothing but positive interactions with those parents during the game (nor was there any yelling/screaming at officials as seems to happen a lot in other games). Agree with the previous post stating that DM doesn’t drop his Blue kids to Red just to win a lower division in HOCO. The accusation takes away from the kids who have worked all year to get better, gel as a team, and overcome absences and injuries.

Hahaha what fitting news that came out today. I know I know we all need new hobbies. Our sons should play a new sport. We are bitter. We don’t know what we are talking about. Our kids sit on the sidelines. Our kids get embarrassed on the field so we come here to complain.

Fact is you people have no clue.
You have taken advantage of the system.
Your kids are not good enough to dominate their own age so they made a move to face less competition. That in itself is pathetic.
It’s funny when someone comes in here and states an undeniable truth…. That your kid had to play down to be as good as he is, the reply never addresses that. You reclass parents are in denial.

You are the minority. The news today and the results of the surveys prove it.
Face it.

I have a tiny little tear running down my cheek for the younger siblings of reclass athletes that will not be able to carry on the family tradition.
I have a bigger tear running down the other side for the parents when they get word that their youngest child will have to play against kids that are the same age.
Welp

The idea that ProSlash was ever so briefly #1 in AA is sad for all involved.

THIS. Another NL Red parent here thanking you for setting the record straight.

This will undoubtedly affect the 23-24 season for the 2029 teams and younger. Anyone who thinks this is only NLF tournaments is kidding themselves. US Lacrosse has created a of care and any Tournament that allows play whereby an older child can hurt a younger child has exposed themselves to an argument that they have breached that standard. Add in the fact that NLF clubs who are bound by this rule will not want to compete in tournaments who don't enforce said rule and there will be a ton of pressure on A and AA level tournaments to adopt.

For the record all HoCo Championships were roster checked. Next Level Red didn’t play like a AA team in the playoffs and surprised some people. Hard to imagine some of those kids are not on the Blue team.

No one’s arguing that but this isn’t a 2029 forum so therefore the new rules won’t apply.

So many here can breathe a bit easier that this change won’t impact the 2028’s.

This is more 2027 holdback forum than and 2029 forum!!

Anyone able to put out the summer schedule for our top teams? Where's everyone playing?

NAL? NLF? Naptown? Platinum Cup? Millon? Anyone going to NY or PA?

HOCO is over. Let's talk summer ball!

How does this apply ti a student possibly planning on repeating 8th grade? For academic reasons (and I’m being absolutely serious) if I have an on age player born in November, 2009- could he hold back one year and still play? Either way he will have to repeat (struggles academicly w an IEP)- trying to set expectations

All I can tell you is there was actual proof. 100% was not the same team that played in regular season. 100%! Maybe not Blue kids, but were different for sure.

Show us your 100 percent proof.

If the child is truly reclassing for academic reasons there are no issues. Reclass to 2029 and keep playing with your age (2028).

If there was actual proof, this conversation would not be happening on an anonymous forum because the cheating would’ve already been taken care of and the team would’ve already been disqualified. Move on. Spring season is over, summer season starts this weekend.

That sounds great in theory but most clubs won’t let kids play up once 9th grade starts

If you’re referring to the 28 NLRed team, then yes; the first month of the season they were missing two of their best midfielders recovering from orthopedic injuries. And the first two weeks of the season (including the game against Prostart) they were missing multiple players due to spring break for Montgomery County. But instead of complaining to the league and having games rescheduled or postponed (see ML cap who didn’t play until a few weeks in and VLC was who somehow got a tie instead of a forfeit against Preds when they couldn’t field a team for week1) the kids who were healthy and could play did short handed, out of position in a lot of cases, and did their best to keep it competitive which, outside of the HLC blowout, they succeeded in doing. This wasn’t sandbagging or cheating…simple perseverance

Agree with prior poster. HOCO is over and time to focus on the summer. Best of luck to all the kids.

Sir you need to be banned for such reasonable statements throughout your entire post.

And yes I understand the need to withdraw from tournaments or even eat a forfeit / hold a scrimmage when you don't have horses to play. But the idea of "Oh we're not ready for week 1, we demand a postponement" is so incredibly weak for groups of well-funded adults to pitch to the Hoco league. Certainly you have 9-10-11 or so kids. Put out an open call for players or a "supplemental tryout" which are the same thing. Eat the forfeit or play who you got, you had 6+ months to build your roster with advance notice for "a game the last saturday of March."

VLC's story of "Oh well 6 weeks ago we lost a bunch of kids to BLC, and the replacements aren't great" is an eye roller at best. Take the L and ask the Preds or whoever if they are OK with spending the hour drilling or scrimmaging with coaches on the field. Add value to what the parents pay!

I need some advice... I have a 7th grade son playing on an Elite level team in HOCO.

He is a pretty good player. In his career, he has primarily played midfield but also has played some attack. He seems to be pretty talented at facing off.

Objectively, he is probably the 3rd or 4th best faceoff middie in the Elite division. He is not playing a pure FOGO role on his club team but the coach prefers to lean on him for faceoffs over the other two options. This diminishes his role offensively as he doesn't have as much gas left in the tank on many possessions.

We send our kids to public high schools with solid but not great lacrosse programs.

I think he has enough ability to play just about any offensive position in high school. I also think he has a solid chance to be able to play at a decent D3 college if he desires.

I feel like the learning curve to be a good FOGO is not that steep... high school coach recruits a dominant wrestler and in two years this kid is solid simply because of hand speed, athleticism and experience with using body leverage.

On the other hand, it's hard to grab a top attack or offensive mid spot without years of experience working on stick skills, game IQ etc...

QUESTION... If I want to maximize his options in college, should I encourage him to move away from Faceoff Mid and towards Offensive Mid / Attack?