BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Apples and oranges brother. Read my post again. Focus on when I said “criteria I described.” Think about what that means. Now look at the list of teams and apply “criteria I described.” I know this may be a tough task for you. It requires an open mind and analytical approach mixed with some common sense.

On second thought, I doubt you are capable, so I will spell it out what I was saying.

91 venom is the best on age, non holdback, non national team in the United States of America. Period. End of story. I’m not a 91 parent. I’m well aware of their team and I want my son to play them because my son plays best when he has to play better competition. I also don’t mind my sons team losing to a team that is better.

And before I get the lecture about “this is lacrosse” and “wait till high school”, you can stop yourself there. I’m aware of the forthcoming replies.

So I’ll spit out couple of undeniable facts pertaining to that.

1. It will be coming to an end as the voices have spoken. Holdback for purpose of sports is sad and pathetic and the majority of parents agree.
2. It may be convenient for holdback parents to point to 11th graders playing 12th graders in high school and say it’s same thing as a true 7th grader playing an 8th grader that has been held back. You obviously know little about the different stages of early puberty. Go to google. It is a wonderful hammerhead. There is a reason other sports do it. There is a reason wrestling has weight classes. The fact that it’s so matter of fact in Maryland, and some other areas as well, is mind boggling to most.
3. Parents who disagree with point number 2 above are just trying to justify your child playing against younger kids because he wouldn’t be the star he is if he was playing up or on age. Quite sad actually.
4. National teams do not deserve a spot in rankings. My son has been asked to play on them. I chose not to because I can’t afford any more travel. I have no problem with those who do. The more he plays and the better competition he plays, the better he will become. However, these teams should not be ranked alongside a local team. See “apples and oranges” and “criteria I described” comments above.

Neither one is competitive down south. 91 and 2Way only ones

To be honest, I’d rather play Hawks than FCA. FCA is better ifffensively, but Hawks have a great goalie and solid everywhere else. FCA more potent offensively

Go Hit the Wall, little Johnny

Sorry but not the same Madlax team from the HOCO league. The Madlax team from the summer has kids from as far away as Texas and New Hampshire.

Privileges revoked for that statement. Hawks scored 10 less goals than FCA but are +21 in goal differential, undefeated, including a 6 goal victory over FCA.

Pretty sure you just confirmed everything I said. FCA scored more goals than Hawks against the same 7 teams (considerably more, led the league) but gave up far fewer. As I said— Hawks have a great goalie, FCA has a great offense. I’d rather play Hawks having played both. It’s not science, it’s an opinion.

they do? who plays on ML from TX and NH? they were not there when they beat the I'm going into 9th grade holdbacks of 2way to win NLF last year. They must have been playing on another National Team that weekend.

Team MD undefeated as usual in AAA; should take the AAA division, unless Team Money brings in their Freedom boys. Will they still play down in Summer Tournaments like they always do? AA looks like it could be anyone's race unless Next Level brings players up from the Blue team.

Neither of you are wrong. Hawks have a great goalie, transition game and LSM, FCA has attack and FOGOs. If FCA's coach is there they are a different team, he was not there for Hawks and NL, maybe others. Hawks have been good since day 1, FCA is streaky. They will probably play again so this is all moot, it will be interesting to see.

"FCA scored more goals than Hawks against the same 7 teams (considerably more, led the league) but gave up far fewer."

I don't understand why people write things like that ^^^, you can look it up on the Hoco website. Hawks GF 78, GA 25. FCA GF 88, GA 56. My son doesn't play for either team. My money's on Hawks here, they don't score as much as FCA but they score more than enough, and their defense is much more solid than FCA's.

Hawks played True with ALL of their national team players, FCA did not. FCA ran up the score against 91... Hawks did not. I'm sure there's some bad Baltimore blood behind that one.

The 10 goal advantage for FCA is not a real data point. The goals they gave up IS though. FCAs defense is Swiss cheese. And their goalie play is sub par. Wouldn't surprise me if Madlax showed up and beat them this weekend.

Prostart better have that $50 roster check fee ready on Saturday.

Haha! Will be best $50 ever spent. How did Predators tie VLC. Thought there were no ties allowed.

You're right, Hawks don't run it up.
Just stop.

Next Level v FCA and ML v True by the scores looked like great games. So far no commentary about them, how did go? Did Cabel roster check? Was FCA in charge the entire time and NL came back or was it back and forth?

The game was never played. It was scheduled as the first game of the season. VLC couldn't play for whatever reason. HOCO tried to reschedule this past weekend and it didn't work out. So, it was agreed it would be a 1-1 tie.

Looked like True brought their A team. Close game until ML pulled away in 4th.

And it's only an extra 1.5 goals/game - meh.

FCA led early, didn't ever put it away. NL won a faceoff with 1 minute left and had a chance to tie.

Good game.

Admitting that we are talking about AA ball, and nobody else cares, this Predators squad (who tied BLC last fall and FCA White this spring, and lost to Team Money by 4 after leading at halftime), would hit this VLC squad like a dump truck coming down a mountain. Last year's game was good and aggressive, I think 8-4 or 9-5 VLC, and then didn't VLC beat Preds by 2 in the playoffs (memory hazy). VLC was still showing shades of "Cavs ball" which I enjoyed watching in past years. Big and aggressive and few turnovers. Love it! Parents also quite normal.

However allegedly VLC lost a bunch of those players in February and couldn't fill a 10 man roster for HoCo Week 1, which is why they should have forfeited as they were trying to collect up rec players to have enough bodies The HoCo league took pity and granted them a "postponement" and then VLC director slowly worked down Predators director to "agreeing to a tie" over the course of the season. I believe Madlax was successful in this approach this spring too. If you're not ready to play, just "postpone!"

Political wrangling talent: VLC 1; Predators 0.
Roster retention talent: Predators 1; VLC 0.
And I guess that does make it a tie LOL.

NL didn’t get a shot off with 30 secs left! Poor offense…story of their season.

true, but scoring 11 on FCA is a good sign. all they need are a couple of holdbacks and Madlax transfers on offense and NL will be a darn good team.

True Parent of “fly in.” This statement saddens me. To my knowledge all kids are properly rostered and are on age. Why a team May see different players is based on availability. This team is NOT all National team members stacked. Maybe half, and half of those ARE Maryland kids and on age. Personally I struggled with the idea of coming out to HoCo knowing my kid could potentially displace a local kid. Based on last years performance, True could seriously be relegated to AAA. In my opinion, guest players helped enough to get into the playoffs. They also fostered what I thought was a more competitive/constructive environment where kids had to genuinely work for their plying time, and they did! All the scoring did not come from just the “fly-ins.” And while this may not be a sustainable model, it did demonstrate what some help can do. It’s been a great experience for us and all the parents have been accommodating. Opposing parents have been cool too. No snide or under the breath comments. That’s been saved for this forum where anonymity is one’s best shield.

You are naive if you think that families on other teams and your own team are happy with groups of players flying in and rotating half of the roster on a weekly basis. Of course nobody is going to be rude to you on the sidelines. But anonymity correlates to honesty, and the fact that you struggled with it yourself shows a lot. Did it occur to you that the kids on the local team might prefer to play AAA, but practice and play games week to week with the same roster? To a seventh grader, it is not especially gratifying to stand on the sidelines and watch a bunch of fly ins squeak into the last playoff spot. I too am praying for a roster check in the playoffs.

I don’t think anybody would hold the fly in against the fly ins themselves. We all get it. I would hold it against the club.

I assure you those accomodating parents said plenty when you were out of earshot. Toxic bunch. Lucky you, you get to fly home and away from Anonymous here and the like.

All valid points. Not naive to the feelings of others. Our decision to come was to play against the best. We have. “Squeaking into the playoffs,” was earned by the players on the field both local and “fly-ins.” The route to get there was not against the rules and not any different from other clubs utilizing whatever legal competitive advantage they could ie; hold backs, recruiting from adjacent states like VA, Delaware, or poaching from other teams. If anything it demonstrates how quickly parity can be achieved from one year to another, from one club to another. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just saying it is what it is. Don’t waste a prayer on a roster check. Pray for a good game, safety of the players and that the kids have fun.

The Texas kid was there, the NH kid was not. He was playing w 4 Leaf in the same tourney

I think we’ve only scratched the surface on this discussion. Would really like to see this topic persist. Not nearly enough time being wasted blasting a club. The he more negativity we write the better off we’ll all feel.

Relegated to AAA? True's team last year did not have a good W/L record...however they lost 4 games by less than 2 goals. They were only blown out by the Hawks. That team was not as bad as their record indicated. They were only a middie line away from being playoff competitive. This is the problem with True. You guys drink the green potion and listen to what they tell you. Stop with the "on age" comment. That is not a badge of accomplishment in the lacrosse landscape. Kids flying in took spots from other kids, I doubt seriously that parents of the local kids would tell you that they are happy with it. Parents from other teams don't dislike the parents flying their kids in, its not about fly in parents or their kids. It is the fact that True the organization is making a mockery of building local talent. That should tell you about that organization, we are in one of the most lacrosse rich areas and they are flying in kids to compete because they have either wasted all the talent from the teams they purchased or they did not cultivate and acquire talent in this area. If I lived in Illinois and had the chance for my kid to play in the best rec program in the country, I would most likely do it also. But if you take a step back and look at the why? then you will understand why in our area True is not looked at as a quality organization.

NL probably pushed FCA to their limits in that game scoring 11 on a team of 27's has to mean something

without your son and the other hot shot fly-ins, the local True kids "could seriously be relegated to AAA." So you push the local kids to the bench, AND you dump on them. very classy on your part.

Predictions for HoCo Winners?

ELITE HAWKS

AAA team md

AA HLC? NL red?



A Bethesda bandits? Hoco?



B zingos

Were any of the fly ins hold backs?

Please say yes, BOTC would need a new server.

Holdback (Elite) Hawks
AAA Team Money
AA Predators
A Hoco
A Zingos

Stop with the "on age" comment. That is not a badge of accomplishment in the lacrosse landscape. Kids flying in took spots from other kids, I doubt seriously that parents of the local kids would tell you that they are happy with it. Parents from other teams don't dislike the parents flying their kids in, its not about fly in parents or their kids. It is the fact that True the organization is making a mockery of building local talent. That should tell you about that organization, we are in one of the most lacrosse rich areas and they are flying in kids to compete because they have either wasted all the talent from the teams they purchased or they did not cultivate and acquire talent in this area. [/quote]

I love the hypocrisy of this argument! So outraged over the IL fly-ins, but no issue with holdbacks.

The IL parents should have considered the feelings of the displaced kids? Do the holdback parents care about the feelings of the displaced kids on the younger teams?

True is making a mockery of building local talent and not developing players . . . meanwhile the business model for most elite clubs is holding kids back and drawing kids from adjacent states.

I don't really care about holdbacks or flyins, just pointing out the hypocrisy of the outrage . . .

Dear fly-in, You seem like a thoughtful and decent parent. Don’t take any of the rude and classless comments on this forum seriously.

P.S - I’m not a True parent.

NL has a bunch of kids who should be 2027, including their big attacker and both goalies. Let's just call it a wash.