BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2029-6th Grade Fall 2022/Summer 2023

The rankings are math plain and simple. When the number of games increase for every team, the accuracy of the rankings also increases. Unlike college basketball and football polls that are based on subjective criteria including votes by coaches and the media, these rankings don't care about your feelings or what club owns what team. It's math. But keep on believing there is funny business if it makes you feel better.

Nothing in the ranking calculation favors one club over another. However, if you don't think there are ways to "game" the rankings, you are clearly new here. Two clubs (one LI and one NJ) are known to manipulate schedules so they will look better in rankings. (And before anyone asks, the LI club is NOT 91)

By manipulate schedules, do you mean set yourself up to "play better teams" or cherry pick to "play worse teams" because it's who you play that matters. If you are in lower divisions in tournaments and play worse teams, your ranking will reflect that especially since there is a 10 goal cap on being "rewarded" for a bad win. If you are in better divisions and play better teams, your rankings will also reflect that. Not new here, I have a 2025, 2026 and 2029 daughter so spare me the patronizing. Play harder teams, get rewarded if you beat them or keep the game close. And the opposite is true as well. It's math.

I don't know if the reply was misplaced or what. But I agree with you for the most part. I was just commenting on the hypocrisy of the reply before mine. The area where I don't necessarily agree that it's "just math" is in the area of initial handicapping/rating (not ranking) or "power score" as some people would put it. While this number does "self correct," prior to those first six games...I think that number is fugazzi- or subjective at best.

This is 100%. And someone else already established that the old "Top Guns" system of trying to go around people instead of through them doesn't really work.

No, you manipulate the schedule by playing teams ranked 20-40 who you can blowout as opposed to getting blown out by top 5 teams.

For instance, right down YJ Duswalt has a rating of 89, while Eagle Stix has a rating of 97.


There are many teams who would blow out YJ Duswalt by 8-10 goals and get 97-99 points, but would likely lose to Eagle Stix and end up with points in low 90s.

The key is to find good teams you can blow out while avoid top 5 teams who will dominate you. (Now if you care about player development, you probably want to take the opposite strategy).

This is ridiculous. Assuming for a minute that you have that much control over which teams you're playing against when you register blindly six month in advance, a high rated team isn't going to want anything to do with a significantly lower rated team as a way to advance in the rankings. The expected goal differential would be too hard to accomplish with certainty and it would harm their SCHED number (discussed in a minute). Your scenario of blowing through a team such as Duswalt doesn't make any sense for a team that is lower in ranking than Duswalt as they wouldn't need to blow past them at all, just simply win or not lose by the goal differential. And with that said, you're ignoring the "sched" number. This number ranks the level of competition a team faces. Seeking teams with rankings in the 80's will never accomplish a high ranking (and not only because it would require blowout scores to maintain the expected differential). This is why teams such as "Tempest Lacrosse Blue" with an undefeated record of 7-0 are rated #47 while someone like Friedman with a 6-0 record is rated #3. If you're an A team seeking B team competition you can blow through....you're also going to blow the math on your ranking by messing up your "sched" number and no longer being bracketed with high ranking teams (as this number is directly used for bracketing in tournaments).

Using Duzwalt as a marker (among the best of the B Teams and he was previously used in this thread)- If you are ranked higher than him and seek teams like his as competition, you will struggle with meeting the expected goal differential and suffer the consequences of entering into lower-rated competition. It will blow your SCHED number, get you bracketed in B divisions, and negatively affect your ranking. In short, if you seek B competition, you will get exactly what you're seeking.

If you're lower than Duzwalt, then yes. Seek him as competition. That's the nature of competition. But you're not achieving a "blowout." He's at or near the top of the B teams. If you do beat him, congratulations. You're now inching up toward the top of the B teams. How exactly did this help you hack the system against teams like Eaglesticks? You've just bracketed yourself below them and mathematically won't be near them in rankings, nor will you even set foot on the same field as them.

At most age groups, especially at the middle school level, the gap between the top 5 or 6 teams and everyone else is MASSIVE and tends to be undervalued in rankings. Most teams will get a better ranking by placing in the 2nd or 3rd division in a top tourney.

For 29s, look at NXT. They don't play in any top brackets but beat the living [Censored] out of everyone they play. As a result, they are currently ranked 6. If you have watched them play, they are a solid team but nowhere NEAR a top 10 team.

If they had played in top brackets or better tourneys, they undoubtedly would have a much worse ranking.

A previous commenter flagged NXT and Steps as mathematical anomalies when they were both in the top ten. He predicted a rapid and deep decline in both ranking and rating after one more game was played. It happened for Steps. The same is in the near future for NXT.

What's up with the "Team 91 National" team that recently appeared in the rankings? What is this team? What was it before its inception/acquisition? On the surface, it's a "bought out"/franchised team that went to a tournament in a state that doesn't play lacrosse and spanked everyone. Am I missing something?

Sorry if this double-posted. Captcha issue.

91 National is composed of girls from 91 teams from different states. Most of them were from the LI franchise. It was a great experience for the girls to meet and play with others and face some different competition.

They only played in one tournament but played the 6 game min while there and I believe it was a Team 91 All Star team...

All star team ? Hahaha....good luck with that one . They call everything " national" now and " all country" etc.....nothing special just a money grab. nDtVWv

Not a money grab because it was optional to do. A money grab would be adding more kids to your roster knowing that you are not going to play them or having D and E teams. Again, it was fun and a great experience playing in beautiful weather at great facility. So different than the usual places in NJ, DE, PA and Maryland.

If Team 91 sent their flagship "Roar" team to California, where their tournament competition would have had an average rating (SCHED) score of 86, they would have played against teams ranked as low as 110th place and would have gotten themselves ranked below 10th place for now- and would have dipped even lower in the rankings once the other A teams built up strong SCHED scores in the Spring. So...send a disposable team (composed of mostly the same players) to California, make some money in a tournament you're affiliated with, gather up some cash from some parents you dupe into convincing that "National" means something special, post some brags about annihilating an entire tournament, and do this all without negatively affecting the rating and ranking of your flagship team. Then you can hold onto the hope that the Roar team can recover from being an unranked team through the Fall, Winter, and Spring. Plus, your girls get some experience without the rating repercussions of playing C level teams. We call this a poor attempt at ranking manipulation (and parent manipulation).

How does that work, by the way? Do you still consider "roar" your A team despite it not being among the other two 91 teams in the rankings?

Seems like a money grab to me too, albeit a fun experience for the kids. But I'd personally seek some real competition before flying out to play in a scrapper tournament.

Of course Roar is the A team despite not being ranked. We would be ranked if the weather was better and the schedule got changed. It is also the Fall and we are looking towards this summer where there will be more opportunities to play. You can play in one tournament and play 6 games, compared to the showcase format where you only play 3 or 4 games.

A lot of if and or buts in this post .....funny and sad at the same time

The weather is what signed up Roar for 2028 C team tournaments on Long Island this Fall while their age group played in two age appropriate tournaments the same weekend? And the weekend before. And before.

The best would be if the disposable 91 National Team winds up initially ranked higher than 91 Roar once they hit the ranking board. That's my prediction (not to pile on "ifs, ands, or butts"). I actually think the math supports that this could be a likely thing.

If the grass was green and the skies were blue ....lol. typical 91 excuses

91 Roar played in the Northeast Showcase and the Mid-Atlantic and a local tournament. The only other clubs who competed more in the Fall was Top Guns and Tradition. The other clubs wanted to hold onto their rankings despite entering fewer tournaments.

Wrong ...but keep grasping at straws. Sad

These are weird claims. For one, nobody held out on registering for tournaments to maintain their rankings. Registrations were closed well-before the season ever began and the rankings didn't come out until nearly the end of the Fall season. Ridiculously out of touch with reality.

Also, just go click on any random team in USCL's rankings and you'll see that plenty of teams (even LI teams) played more than 91 Roar. I'm not going to do that work for you.

But , but , but .....if the grass was green and the sky is blue 91 would win more games . Ludicrous. I will tell you what happened over there at 91. Parents were sold a bag of goods based on the 91 boys successful program . Promised they will be as good as the boys . But failed to mention that they aren't considered not will they ever be a good girls club. They also failed to mention that the yellow jackets are the top dog on long island as well as one of the top programs in the northeast . So parents that are now 3 years in with that 91 team are grasping at straws to make the team sound better . They aren't . The yellow jackets teams are now full and the 91 parents are in panic mode looking for every and any reason to prop up a bad decision made by them.

But , but , but .....if the grass was green and the sky is blue 91 would win more games . Ludicrous. I will tell you what happened over there at 91. Parents were sold a bag of goods based on the 91 boys successful program . Promised they will be as good as the boys . But failed to mention that they aren't considered not will they ever be a good girls club. They also failed to mention that the yellow jackets are the top dog on long island as well as one of the top programs in the northeast . So parents that are now 3 years in with that 91 team are grasping at straws to make the team sound better . They aren't . The yellow jackets teams are now full and the 91 parents are in panic mode looking for every and any reason to prop up a bad decision made by them


Dude. If they are unhappy at 91 they can leave and take ylj spots. You don’t think kids leave clubs and move and can take other kids spots. Full or not? In a hot second. No one is panicking. Maybe ylj parents should. And you should rethink your strategy. Bc unless your kid is top 2 on a team you are at risk. Actually anyone can be replaced if the talent is better. Coaches don’t care if you have been there since you are 7.

I generally don't take words of wisdom about girls lacrosse from people who can't figure out how to abbreviate Yellow Jackets or Long Island Yellow Jackets as YJ or LIYJ, nor from people that didn't attend YJ tryouts this summer where they could have seen a herd of 91 backpacks leave the parking lot where they never returned (with the exception of maybe one). As CR opens up C level teams, a few will migrate over to YJ from teams with no recruitment opportunities- that much is historically accurate, but it's not saying anything about 91 as a program. It says more about YJ/CR's money grab to pick up those that jump ship from dead-end programs. There's a few good players in most programs. And 91 2029 is actually a good team. But they must get their act together.

Can we please change this thread to topics other than 91 for the love of god please....

I have a new topic. "Long Island Elite" tournament. Runs several Sunday nights starting in March at Cantiague Park. Last year it had the following 2029 Teams:

Jesters Black (ranked 55, 87.82)
YJ Nassau (ranked 42, 89.05)
YJ Duswalt (ranked 33, 89.72)
YJ Friedman (ranked 3, 96.98)
Grizzlies (ranked 30, 90.08)

And the following 2028 teams in the same bracket: YJ Fey, Shore to Shore

This is a ranked event. Registration is still open. Here's your chance to put your money where your mouth is.

Agree with the above. Lots of talent on the 91 team. Some of the best girls on LI. Seems like alot of 91 haters out of jealousy!!

Just looked this up. This tournament is at Cantiague Park which has OUTDOOR turf fields. But games are scheduled for February and March from 5-9? So girls are playing EVENING games outside during the WINTER.
Step back and think about that as a parent, is that ok for your daughter?

Sounds familiar. Another parent was here blaming the weather for not getting enough ranked games in. What team were they from again?

Yes everyone is jealous of a team that is 0-20 playing out of state teams lol...typical 91 parent

oh no!! we were finally talking about something besides 91

My kid played in this last year and we all had a great time. However, she’s also not a complete wimp that we keep in the house until April. It was cold. I don’t think anyone died. Props go to that CT that traveled to Long Island every Sunday night for it.

New topic:
There was some recent talk about girls lacrosse switching from a "graduating year" model to a "birth year" model of classification. Any word on whether or not this has gained any momentum? Kindergarten is the best two years of a kid's life in Maryland. Let's line this up for crying aloud. We mess around with subtle rule changes each year but can't be bothered to match girls by their ages?

Honestly, I'd settle for someone checking a card with the girls' faces, and specific team affiliation printed on the card. I'm tired of playing in Maryland tournaments where we play the A team at 9 am and then at noon I see the same girls on the B team. Three years of playing travel and I've seen a referee check equipment once, and nobody ever checked rosters. For the past four years the refs have been diligent about this in travel soccer. Let's get it together.

I was told Igloo has a 2029 team in Nassau county starting this summer. I know the boys side is very well run in Nassau, and looking at their social media it seems like they are putting a lot into the girls. We are looking to move to a new nassau club. Has anyone had experiences with their girls side or even have a son on the boys?

Our son has loved Igloo. Were from Manhasset so it’s very convenient for us location wise. Not sure about where girls practice or whose running the female side of the program but we have been happy with the boys side

It's a quality boy's team. But I wouldn't read anything into that. Lots of top boys clubs has horrible girls programs. In fact, I can't think of a single club who is successful at both.