BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Answer is yes.

The NLF is perhaps the strongest group of clubs collectively grouped together in a tournament format. It does not however, represent the other top 50 club programs from around the USA. I am guessing programs like 3D New England, BBL, FCA, Hawks, Next Level, 2Way, Team 10, Mesa, Mad Dog, Red Hots, True would welcome the NLF going age based so they can start their own reclass alliance. NLF would be foolish to introduce age based verified tournaments. Do you think clubs like Crabs will want to remain playing in the age verified NLF if a competing high level reclass tournament is played on the same weekend(s) as NLF? How many original and affiliate NLF clubs are going to lose their reclass players to other programs? All of them! Team rankings and player ratings mean everything to these kids and their parents as they move into the high school years. If you want an age verified tournament for your '28, go play in The Circuit.

The NLF is perhaps the strongest group of clubs collectively grouped together in a tournament format. It does not however, represent the other top 50 club programs from around the USA. I am guessing programs like 3D New England, BBL, FCA, Hawks, Next Level, 2Way, Team 10, Mesa, Mad Dog, Red Hots, True would welcome the NLF going age based so they can start their own reclass alliance. NLF would be foolish to introduce age based verified tournaments. Do you think clubs like Crabs will want to remain playing in the age verified NLF if a competing high level reclass tournament is played on the same weekend(s) as NLF? How many original and affiliate NLF clubs are going to lose their reclass players to other programs? All of them! Team rankings and player ratings mean everything to these kids and their parents as they move into the high school years. If you want an age verified tournament for your '28, go play in The Circuit.

Then how do you explain NLF and now Crabfeast Young Guns making age-based announcements? There must be pressure coming from somewhere to upset the status quo . . . maybe the insurance companies? Whatever pressure is being applied to NLF will also target 3Step and the other tourney companies.

Ultimately NLF is focused on the HS age groups and being the best place to get seen by college coaches. These age restrictions will only apply to youth age groups. Maybe NLF/Crabfeast are playing it safe at the youth ages knowing that they will still get holdbacks in highschool?

I don't have the answers, but clearly something is changing. Likely too late to impact 2028's, but something is changing.

I'm not talking about standards, and we'retalking high school age, not 22 year olds vs 19 year olds....pay attention. I'm talking about how many on-age starters are on Maryland's top 2 or 3 2024 clubs. Is that number 3? 5? out of 30 starters? Maybe. Are those on-age starters even from Maryland? Maybe half of them.

It’s been entertaining reading all the comments - most of them uninformed from parents of players and people that generally have a limited understanding of how the businesses of club and tournaments work and how the business interests and operations can intersect. And there are outside forces like USA lacrosse and liability/insurance and insurance that do actually matter on top of that. The calculus around that always changes and now you are seeing the result of the current dynamic.

A few things:

1. Changes are absolutely happening starting now and will take time to be implemented.
2. Pay particular attention to what direction clubs provide at tryouts this coming summer. That will be very informative of how fast changes will happen. The future system 3 years from now will be imperfect like the current one, but hopefully less so.
3. This is a revenue opportunity for clubs and tournaments in youth and age verification costs will be passed through.
4. And more revenue with less liability and potentially leveraging new rules to reduce premiums. More profit.
5. Stating the obvious - whatever the system - The best players in youth will stay play on the best teams clubs (nlf or not) with pedigree and track record, but expect more parity in the future. The hot beds will still dominate like they do today.

Tryouts will definitely telling.

If an anti-holdebacker wants to hasten the process, the best way is probably to send certified mail letters to tourney organizers (copying their insurance companies) and specifically noting that (1) they are not in compliance with the age recommendations of USA Lacrosse, (2) this increases the likelihood of serious injury to participants, and (3) they now have actual knowledge of this risk, so should expect to be held accountable accordingly. I don't think it would be that hard to pull off.

Wow dude. Why don’t you also throw in a couple of lawsuits for being looked at in a way that hurts your feelings. What a clown. You’re an example of what is wrong with our country. You know what you’re getting into with club lacrosse. Don’t like it? Go play rec or drop down a tier. Or yeah, let’s start pulling insurance companies into it, and maybe toss out a lawsuit.

I bet you threaten school systems when your kid gets sent home with a referral too. “Not my Jonny”

Only thing missing from this response is the obligatory “tell your kid to hit the wall” wisecrack.

I understand a parent wanting to play their kid up in age to push and challenge them, I wont ever understand a parent holding a kid back to play against younger competition. So you can make all the insults you want, you sir are the freaking clown.

My son is doing well at this level so I'm not going to write these letters, but he's on-age so I'm not scared of a change either. My point is just that if people are really that worked up about this then there are things they could do that might be more effective than complaining on message boards.

I do find it a little odd to take the view that all's fair as long as you're in technical compliance with the rules at the kid level but then clutch your pearls when someone suggests you could use the rules to your advantage at the adult level, but I guess some people may be overly invested in youth sports in part because they struggle to keep up in the grown up world.

You know reclassing only works if no one else does it. So maybe no one should do it or the powers that be should try to stop it before it gets to 100%. Ridiculous to have your kid repeat a grade for anything other than academic reasons!

Trust me, the holdback parents don't care what you do or don't understand. give it up and just focus on what is best for your own son.

Agreed, and I especially like the idea that the other guy is what’s wrong with the country while he is boldly exploiting a quirk in the rules to have his son play against younger boys, just like the Founders dreamed of.

Agreed, and I especially like the idea that the other guy is what’s wrong with the country while he is boldly exploiting a quirk in the rules to have his son play against younger boys, just like the Founders dreamed of.

Any comments on Prospect ID camp?

It’s in the middle of nowhere.

My son had a lot of fun and played with/against some talented kids - that's about it.

Tell me you had to hire a lawyer for your January 6 "DC field trip" without telling me.

If you have the money to blow, go for it, otherwise save your money for when coaches are watching.

... and that should be the total takeaway for any kid playing sports. Reclass, rankings, schools, clubs ... parents incessant complaining ... wanting to live and achieve their sports dreams vicariously through their children ... brag/complain boards. Parents - the bane of youth sports.

The overnight camps I have seen are outrageous in price. Anywhere from $800-$1,100. Are there any day camps in June/July that are worth the money in the central Baltimore area?

My kids have been playing club lax for almost and I have met very few of actual holdbacks ( ie kids who repeated a grade because of sports). Most of the holdbacks are kids who weren’t ready for kindergarten. I don’t think it’s right to make those kids play with an older grade - they want to play with their friends and their classmates wat to play with them.

My brother was is a bad accident when he was in grade school which forced him to repeat a year. He played sports with the kids in his new grade and it greatly helped him re-enter school. It would have been the height of cruelty to make him play with his original grade. People should think twice before jumping on a kid or his parents just because he’s a little older

Yeah bro.

Aged based is so unfair.

/s

WOW! Modern day parents. How did parents and kids do it for all the years lacrosse was age based. For 40 years plus kids played age based 24 month windows was only option. Now kids playing against oloder kids is now dangerous and parents sending certified letters claiming its to tough for Johnny. Then again thinking back one of the age groups was called "midgets" that would make todays parents head explode with anger. Sorry have to laugh sometimes.

Yeah bro.

Aged based is so unfair.

/s

I’m sure you understand the difference between U9 and U11 rec vs club lacrosse.

But if you don’t I’ll help you.

In rec every kid has the chance to be on the younger side of the age and then the next year they are on the older side.

It’s FAIR.

In club parents manipulate things to make sure their kid is always oldest.

If everything is fair and you’re not gaining an advantage then why holdback?
If everyone has to play older kids in high school anyway then why holdback?
The reason is because you are gaining an advantage!!
Let’s say you play JV as a freshman, you are the age of the Sophomores!
As a sophomore on JV you are the age of a junior.
As a junior on Varsity you are the age of a senior.
As a senior on Varsity you are the age of a College Freshman.

You just played 4 years and never played against anyone older than you!!!!!!!!

just worry about your own son. try it, you will feel better and less stressed.

Okay. Let's shake things up other than holdbacks, new regulations, v-necks, etc. We all know the 8 Elite teams. It's a shame a team like Duke's or Freedom can't come down and play once a week. So here are the 9 AAA teams in my opinion how they will end up.

1. VLC
2. Team MD
3. Predators
4. FCA White
5. Team Money
6. Blue Claws
7. Sidewinders
8. Hawks Black
9. Prostart
*Not sure if Wolfpack still has a team*

Must be embarrassing to be a holdback Dad every time someone asks you at a game “how old are these kids?”

VLC & team money are the early favorites. Preds have improved. Where is true va playing?

100 % agree. that guy is a holdback daddy that is shaking that his kid will be exposed. keep posting on insta before its too late.

that guy just gave a slap down and all you got is worry about your own son!! its like someone finally stood up to the bully. holdback moms and dads are awful.

Agree with your 9 AAA teams, but I would swap Hawks Black or Prostart with NextLevel Red. They have picked up some good talent since they won the AA last year.

Let me share some perspective that probably won't help, but here it goes.

(1) a large percentage of college players nowadays are holdbacks; the landscape is so competitive, that if you want to play on a college team someday, you need all three of the following attributes - God-given talent, fool hard work, AND holding back in 7th or 8th grade; the awful holdback moms and dads don't make the rules, but the smart ones do play by them;
(2) most holdback decisions are partly about lacrosse, but not entirely - every kid is different, and age, size, maturity, academics, all factor into the decision;
(3) to the extent that lacrosse does factor into the decision to hold back, it is about the long term advantage (see point 1 above), not the short term advantage in 7th or 8th grade; everyone knows that will be gone in a year or so, and few families are short-sighted enough to plan their son's education trajectory around a few good Instagram clips in seventh grade;
(4) here is the most important point - families will always do what is best for their son's long term development, and do not care one iota what you think!

Saying that you need to hold back to play in college is such a ridiculous take.

Goodness gracious this is so bad.

This isn’t the slam dunk you seem to think it is. Of course *most* parents will do what they *think* is in *their child’s* best interests. Yet, the only issue worth considering is whether a rule or operating structure rewards what is or is not objectively in the best interests of the sport and - more importantly - the children, individually AND collectively. That's called policy. From a policy vantage, it’s suicide for a sport that must grow or stagnate (or die) to exclude participation at every level based on socioeconomic status, which is what the current set up does. If you are part of the 90-95% of parents without an extra 15-45k to throw at private school for an extra year and beyond, or your child is not gifted enough to get a full freight or even partial scholarship to private school in 7th/8th/9th grade, you’re excluded. That’s wildly self-defeating for the sport as it attempts to grow - which it desperately must.

Moreover, kids have been doing sport-driven post grad years (what this used to be called) for a long time. I actually did one at a New England prep school for football after graduating public school in the early 90’s and (1) it totally helped both my college search and subsequent college (and college athletic) experience and (2) it was pretty fun and perspective broadening. The difference is that really only those talented enough to warrant consideration for that at age 17 or 18 were considered, which is as it should be, as it is a transactional deal btwn the school - which keeps alumni donors happy with a winning program and perhaps gets some profile - and the athlete, who gets a free or partially subsidized prep school education and all the networking bennies that come with it. But again, that was high school, not middle school. Now, you are correct that it’s nearly condition precedent to be older than the norm IN MIDDLE SCHOOL if you want to play higher level college lacrosse, which as noted is socioeconomically exclusionary due to the public school age/grade requirements. It should be obvious that this is not good for growing the game, to put it mildly.

Finally, repeat K-8th grade and repeat it again all the live long day if you can, and if you believe it’s in your child’s best interests. I’m sure you’re correct that families that are able to do allow silly name calling to influence their child-rearing decisions, nor should they. The schools will not turn down the tuition and clubs will not turn down the fees and the college coaches will not turn down a more mature athlete, and again, why would they? But it should be obvious that that doesn’t mean they should also play in the same grade in K-8. They should play like-aged athletes for safety and for growing the game. Entirely severable concepts.

So argue all the above all you like. But “everyone who can does it” and “I’m acting in my kid’s best interests” arguments, which are true (mostly) are not even close to dispositive and simply highlight a system in dire need of overhaul if the sport wants to scale beyond a few major centers for a few affluent families.

Thanks for the advice holdback Dad but I’m not teaching my kid that cheating is the way to achieve your goals in life. Good luck to you though.

This is a pretty convincing post if your implicit point is that some people would benefit from at least one more year of formal education.