BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

No they don't. Stop lying to yourself.
You know what the issue is.

Yes but In fairness half the on age kids are 13 now. Fall birthdays abound with the on age kids in elite especially but also AAA.

You are right. They actually call their kid "11" and the other kid "15".

In fairness in some states 7th graders are 12. Thus the push for age based lacrosse.

How?
The NY school year is December to November. So in NY the majority are still 12yrs old.
Outside of NY the school year is Sep - Aug. The majority outside of NY are still 12yrs old.
If you pre-k/reclass/holdback then yea, they are 13 and older.

The parents of the players who are not cutting it are the ones obsessed with how old everyone is.

Holdback Dad

They really aren’t the majority. The school year is mainly sept to the last week of may to the first week of June for most of the country.

Sept to December is 4 months. These kids are 13.

Jan to june is really 5.5 months. Those kids are 12.

If you look at the distribution - most of the kids on the better teams around the country who are on age - as of right now are already 13. Meaning most of the kids on GOOD Teams.

Yea there are more months in the second half of the school year but if you look at the rosters you will see how old kids actually are.

It’s probably because at the younger ages even six months of development is huge athletically. So those kids shook out to elite teams younger.

It will matter less and less as they get older.

Sorry he couldnt make the team, Hit The Wall !!

Hit the wall and hold back 1 or 2 years, and then hit the wall even more!

Says the guy with a 14 yr old “competing” with 12 yr olds

Exactly. LI has several 12 with 13 the oldest. And clearly they compete with 14-15 yr olds from other states. And those teams think they are dominating. SMH.

15 yr olds? Ummm ok.....suuuure.

My kid is a 10 yr old 2028 and plays against 17 yr old 7th graders. Top that!

Doorknob. While rare, we do see it happen.

ZERO chance there is a 15 year old playing 2028

Yeh the Madlax and Hawks kids aren’t 15 until the summer/Fall of 2023.

Fact.
Don't forget about KP.

Correct, honestly. My son runs with the dreaded "national teams", plays against the various Team 91 and Crabs entities including 91 National, and is even friends with some 2028 TX and CA double holdbacks. I cannot name one who will be 15 before March 2023. And just saying "March" to be sure I'm correct.

Of course, is all of this ridiculous? Yes it is. But facts matter too.

Name the team with a 15 year old.

Name the team who will have a 15 year old before September 2023.

By the end of 2023, Madlax

Who cares my kid is on age and I’m worried about him getting better not about hold backs play the game because some hold backs [Censored].

Can anyone tell me what it costs to play on a team like Nationals, Team 18 or Red Hots? I'm hearing it's a ton of money.

18s website says $395 per event plus uniform.

Nationals is over two grand from what I hear red hots is Pay play per event

I was told nationals is in the thousands.

Nationals is more like $4000 and the cost is up front for the year. They will slip in some extra fees for extra stuff. Their weekend clinics are great but if you don't go, it's money lost.

Team 18 charges an up front fee for uniforms and a training camp but everything after that is a la carte.

Red Hots is in survival mode. The actual club was terrible and these guys took over the name and are chargiing a nominal fee per event. They mainly grabbed a bunch of Nationals kids when they screwed up their model, plus Red Hots is way less expensive. It is very appealing to the mercenary lacrosse dad crowd. I don't see how they make any money but maybe they can rebuild the club from the top down. I would imagine their fees will climb based on the all-star model success.

Red Hots and JM3 are the only groups I’m aware of that don’t require big commitments. Red Hots have a collection of FCA players, while JM3 has some Hawks. These groups are not intended as full-time employment for the business owner’s. They only play a few tournaments per year and schedule outside the normal season. I don’t expect either to fold because they have minimal expenses.

This is mostly correct. The regular Red Hots 2028 "PA" is on par with HoCo A league. Lots of dropped passes, defense that doesn't slide, etc. The 2027 and 2029 Red Hots teams are very good, AAA or Elite level. How Red Hots got their national roster together was primarily doorknocking (email and IG) from the Apex attendance list. I think the regular Red Hots will continue to do OK, as it is one of the few alternatives to True in the Pittsburgh area. Red Hots National will either follow the Nationals business model or the Team 18 model. Time will tell.

We have done the national money-grab, I mean, opportunities, for the last 2+ years and we're doing less, but still doing some these days. Where I'd rank the COACHING of the top 5 2028 national teams:

1. Nation's Best
2. Nationals
3. Team 91 Natl
4. BBL National
5 NXT Gold (if you can call it a national team) or TX Nationals

Common traits: well organized, holds substantial, well planned practices. Players trust each other. Players trust the coaches. Coaches actually show up for games, not just for IG posts (a real issue, sadly). Lose any one of these, and your son's "national" team is wasting your time and money with a "fun and pretty good" product you could get locally at AAA or Elite.


Best roster TALENT of 2028 national teams I've seen play in person.
1. Tie - Nation's Best, 91 National
3. Mad Dog National
4. Red Hots National
5. Hard to judge between Nationals, Madlax Nat, WCS, TX Natls..

Common traits: Rock solid FOGO. Rock solid goalie, and an almost-as-good backup. 2-3 attackmen who can't ever be left unguarded, despite the 6'3" double holdback LSM cruising up the field with the ball. 2 offensive middies who are game changers. Every middie and attackman on the roster rides aggressively. Lose any one of these, and your son's team is wasting your time and money with a "fun and pretty good" "national" product you could get locally at AAA or Elite.

You may notice that many of the "national programs" are on neither list. I say this as somebody who supports the national team model generally......If you live in a lax-dense area like MD, your son doesn't "need" the opportunity afforded by any "national" team that's on neither of those lists. He already has access to quality skills coaching, and opportunity to play against talent as good (or better) than he is, almost weekly from March 28 to July 15.

Also interesting: it was fun to see in FL this past week, all the Crabs helmets.......players who were specifically forbidden to go play for national teams in Naples and Orlando (a Crabs policy that is frequently reiterated/reminded). King Krab is loving those IG posts hahahahahaha!

The over/under is set at $3,000 for your kid to play in 1 National Team Tournament whether it was the Circuit or Club Nationals. I'm taking the over. Try-out fees, Uniform, Flight for dad/son, rental car, hotel, etc. This is absolutely insane. After looking at IG it's obvious some teams would take anyone that inquired to play.

Didn't a bunch of these teams just play in FL?

Despite its ridiculous name, Texas Nationals is not a "national" team. It's just the top local club in Dallas.

Was Madlax missing starters again this weekend? 7th place showing at their own tournament is not a good look.

it appears that they followed the common script for all MadLax teams in national tournaments. placed in an easy bracket and sweep pool play, but lose in the first round of the playoffs.

Several key Madlax players must have had football again.

You're not wrong, but every 2028 team at the Circuit except for Team 18 and Nation's Best were actively looking for unregistered, unverified players the night before the tournament started.

Also not wrong about cost, but let's keep the "insanity" in perspective when we freak out about $3,000....USL reported that the average parent expenditure on lax was about $9,000 per kid per year in 2021. Highest among sports, per participant, aside from hockey (and a quick reminder that as small/nonexistent as our sons' chances are to make a PLL roster one day, zero MD natives have ever made an NHL roster. Zero. Ever). Now that's insane.

Jeff Halpern?

Jeff Halpern?[/quote]

I knew there was one at least!

Where I'd rank the COACHING of the top 5 2028 national teams:

1. Nation's Best
2. Nationals
3. Team 91 Natl
4. BBL National
5 NXT Gold (if you can call it a national team) or TX Nationals

Best roster TALENT of 2028 national teams I've seen play in person.
1. Tie - Nation's Best, 91 National
3. Mad Dog National
4. Red Hots National
5. Hard to judge between Nationals, Madlax Nat, WCS, TX Natls..

[/quote]

You're underrating Red Hots. They beat Nations Best head to head this fall and would likely crush Mad Dog based on the MD performance in Orlando.

And how is Eighteen not on your list?

What tourneys has 91 National or NXT Gold competed in? I don't recall either of them making any noise. I have no doubt if you supplement Venom with the best 91 kids from around the country the team could beat anyone . . . but my understanding is that the Venom kids don't play on 91 National for the most part.

BBL "National" is not a real national team. They only draw from NJ - not deep enough to compete with RH, NB, and Team Eighteen. I'd put Madlax National in the same category.

Hard to include WCS in these discussions as many of their top players play for Red Hots and Eighteen. Not sure how many TX Nationals are on these other teams.

1. Red Hots
2. Nations Best
3. Eighteen
4. Sweetlax
5. JM3
6. Mad Dog

Faux "National" Teams
1. TX Nationals (if they truly are just from the Dallas area)
2. BBL
3. MadLax

Not in the same league with the teams above - 91 National, Nationals, NXT, or any other national team

You're underrating Red Hots. They beat Nations Best head to head this fall and would likely crush Mad Dog based on the MD performance in Orlando.

And how is Eighteen not on your list?

What tourneys has 91 National or NXT Gold competed in? I don't recall either of them making any noise. I have no doubt if you supplement Venom with the best 91 kids from around the country the team could beat anyone . . . but my understanding is that the Venom kids don't play on 91 National for the most part.

BBL "National" is not a real national team. They only draw from NJ - not deep enough to compete with RH, NB, and Team Eighteen. I'd put Madlax National in the same category.

Hard to include WCS in these discussions as many of their top players play for Red Hots and Eighteen. Not sure how many TX Nationals are on these other teams.

1. Red Hots
2. Nations Best
3. Eighteen
4. Sweetlax
5. JM3
6. Mad Dog

Faux "National" Teams
1. TX Nationals (if they truly are just from the Dallas area)
2. BBL
3. MadLax

Not in the same league with the teams above - 91 National, Nationals, NXT, or any other national team[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Nationals beat Team Eighteen? Maybe October? I vaguely recall when both teams played at an event last summer, Nationals won the event and T18 was 3rd/4th against head to head competition. But they didn't play each other somehow.

Eighteen should have been on my "roster talent" list, brain fart on my part. Though they primarily rely on a dominant FOGO (from 91 South) and a dominant SSDM (from the "real" True National team in IL) who is a legit threat all over the field and has a ridiculous outside shot. Some impressive talent sitting at Attack and impressive size on Defense, but similar to the talent at the other legit national teams who IMHO have more balance.

And JM3 may be the best of all these teams, but I haven't personally seen them play, or heard verifiable stories of positive and negative experiences with coaches. So I figured I wouldn't embarrass myself.

The times I've seen Sweetlax were all over the map. Good (obviously) but inconsistent.

Also not in the same league as the "best" - UNRL National (was asked to throw a team into the Circuit, brand new teams, has taken a beating), and 3D National ("whoever didn't make Nations Best"). Both are at the level of FCA White, 91 MD, Blue Claws, even Predators or Sidewinders. "Elite" if you are from MN or ME I suppose.

I'm pretty sure Nationals beat Team Eighteen? Maybe October? I vaguely recall when both teams played at an event last summer, Nationals won the event and T18 was 3rd/4th against head to head competition. But they didn't play each other somehow.

Eighteen should have been on my "roster talent" list, brain fart on my part. Though they primarily rely on a dominant FOGO (from 91 South) and a dominant SSDM (from the "real" True National team in IL) who is a legit threat all over the field and has a ridiculous outside shot. Some impressive talent sitting at Attack and impressive size on Defense, but similar to the talent at the other legit national teams who IMHO have more balance.

And JM3 may be the best of all these teams, but I haven't personally seen them play, or heard verifiable stories of positive and negative experiences with coaches. So I figured I wouldn't embarrass myself.

The times I've seen Sweetlax were all over the map. Good (obviously) but inconsistent.

Also not in the same league as the "best" - UNRL National (was asked to throw a team into the Circuit, brand new teams, has taken a beating), and 3D National ("whoever didn't make Nations Best"). Both are at the level of FCA White, 91 MD, Blue Claws, even Predators or Sidewinders. "Elite" if you are from MN or ME I suppose.[/quote]

Very difficult putting together rankings for national teams when their rosters change from tourney to tourney. I can tell you that the Team Eighteen team that was in FL last week would have crushed the Nationals team that was there . . . but Nationals beat Eighteen in Oct in Philly. Futile exercise.