BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Girls 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Do you consider M&D a bigger club? If so, Coppermine is just another game on your schedule ... that you've lost to twice in a row.

Your 29 must be your oldest daughter. Your statements are not true. They are what the big clubs want you to believe. Having had a daughter go through the recruiting process, the college coaches are at the fields of the top teams. If your team is in the top brackets at the big torunaments you will be seen. It is not only the big 3 with track records that get girls recruited. The game is growing and the teams with top athletes is increasing every season.

I agree with this comment. It seems the commenter before you had a bad experience with Coppermine causing them to lash out on an anonymous forum. It's a shame because these girls are 11/12 years old. As a dad of a young athlete, I am just hoping they continue to grow and love the game through middle school. AND KEEP PLAYING. Kids stop playing sports at such a young age and for girls it's even younger. 70% of kids stop playing sports by age 13... their number one reason, IT IS NO LONGER FUN!

"Studies from the National Alliance for Youth Sports (NAYS) have found that of the 40 million youths who participate in organized sports each year, 70% will drop out before the age of 13! When asked why the number one reason given is that they just don't find it fun anymore."

And anyone who asks, why is it not fun anymore, send them the link to this forum.

The facts are in the stats. M&D is falling further behind the rest in the 29 division. Their brand of "ISO" lacrosse that seemed to have carried them in past years is no longer working. Opponents defense is better and girls on other teams are more powerful, skilled, and coached to play a team game. Are players leaving M&D to go to other clubs? I mean of players in the past, do they leave M&D or do they stay for the name and opportunities a big club name provides.

To suggest players would start leaving a good club and currently #4 team en masse because of a few losses is ridiculous. I get that you'd like to believe in their demise, but there's no reason to believe they won't continue to work hard, adjust, and develop as players and as a team.

Make no mistake, M&D will remain one of the strongest teams in the 29 division. They have incredible talent and experienced staff. No doubt they will make adjustments, but those tweaks are not nearly as exaggerated as some of you anticipate.

Just because the better girls are getting the opportunities doesn't make it "iso" ball. Most teams at this age have 2-3 girls who can score. Heros has 3-4 and that's why they are number 1 right now. And watch Heros play against M&D, MDU, Eaglestix, i.e. the top teams, rarely are shots taken by anyone other than those 3-4 girls. IF you watch a game with M&D they have several more kids taking shots every game than most clubs. If anything, one could argue they would be better if they let their better players get MORE touches and shots. M&D has 2 or 3 girls who can drive, keep their head up, and pass or finish. No different than most clubs at this age. Not saying other girls can't score but the game is different when the better players touch the ball. If they ran more of your "iso" ball with those 2-3 girls, they would be even better. The argument can be made they play MORE of a team game than other clubs at this age which is limiting their wins this fall. If they wanted to win at all cost my guess is they would "iso" more not less.

And no one is leaving the number 4 team in the 29 division and top overall club in the country during middle school, voluntarily. With that said, my guess is half that team will change over before 9th grade. I've seen it on at the older ages in the last few years. With girls making the jump to try and get the advantage of M&D name during the recruiting years.

This! But you can't fault parents from other clubs from trying to create a problem that doesn't exist. Maybe they are hoping enough leave and their kid can make M&D...

As previously mentioned, don't be fooled by the M&D sales pitch. If your daughter plays in the top bracket at tournaments, they will get the same exposure to collage scouts. Not to mention, if this team continues to falter, do you think college coaches care it's M&D if they don't have the top talent on their roster? I talk to some M&D dads on the sidelines when we play them, and they have all drank the kool aid completely missing their child's development is lacking due to the same issues you discussed. Just sit back and watch it fall while the rest of the mid Atlantic passes them. Coppermine has... next up MDU, SW?

You are hilarious. "If they continue to falter"? They're in 6th grade, do you realize how much will change for all teams and players between now and recruiting years? As has been previously stated, Coppermine beat them twice by 1 goal...in the fall. So, congratulations, you've "passed" them by 2 goals total in a one month span. As a club, Coppermine has yet to pass any of the top clubs in the area. And if they're waiting on the 28s and 29s to change the landscape, it's still gonna be a while.

This is actually the perfect time for the 28s and 29s to change tbe landscape. In addition to their top 10 rankings, they will be seen at camps and clinics all summer. They are already playing in top tournaments in top brackets and their teams continue to add talent. MDU is doing the same thing. If their top teams were a 24 team, than yes, they would be 1 and done and not have an impact on the future of the program. But, the 28s and 29s are the perfect groups to build the name of the program. Add in fantastic facilities for both coppermine and MDU, resources, and recruiting outreach with names like Janine Tucker, and the formula for success continues.

Couldn’t agree more. The bang for your buck is significantly better than M&D. Talk to any M&D parent at the games and ask them, what’s your fall or off-season look like? I can assure you, you will be shocked at the little they do. We know players who left and went there and are struggling with their decision. The expectation of their coaches is to learn and train on your own and on your own dime. I’m not a hater of M&D like some on here and honestly struggle every year with whether or not to take my kid there (been asked every year) but in the end we stay where we are because I’m just not seeing the commitment and development from the staff. Their parents know it too but, what is the play for them now? Leave and try to come back in HS when it matters? They seem stuck… This is a critical 3 years of development in my mind. Someone said it earlier and I believe they are correct, wait to go there till HS. Get the advantage of developing at your current club and make the change when it matters. M&D couldn’t care less how they get to the top in HS. They will cut kids who played for 4-6 years if needed. Lastly, look at their 2024 roster, maybe 1 public school kid? All their kids didn’t go private school, instead they team became an extension of McDonough, St. Paul’s, etc. M&D isn’t the same as Coppermine, Heros, MDU in terms of philosophy. In the end it all depends on what you want. Again, not a hater of M&D but I agree they are losing the advantage at the younger ages because their philosophy is old school and seems the time is passing them by as parents realize the benefit of these other clubs.

As programs like coppermine, and MDU continue to grow, there is no reason to leave at HS. Being in the top tournaments and brackets in HS is what matters, not the name on your jersey. And that is also how the game as a whole grows grows. M and D will not fold/falter with the rise of other clubs. They will still continue to get good players and have top 10 competitive teams. The game is growing there is room for more than a handful of top competition.

Clubs also like to over promote their role the recruiting process. The parents and athlete have the bulk of the work to do. Getting to camps and showcases is where a lot of the work is done. You cannot rely on the club team name to get you a spot on a college roster.

These programs are not actively going out and finding college programs for your daughters. As the individual above notes, it's on the shoulders of the player and parents to do the work in terms of going to on-campus clinics, showcases, etc. Winning also becomes less of a priority in high school, in club, as the vast majority of the touraments become showcases so you're not playing for a championship. It's about playing your best against top-level talent and getting good tape to share.

Couldn't disagree more. Whereas I've observed other teams who are determined to win at all costs to establish their club as a top contender, I see clubs like M&D losing games they could win because they do things like play all their players at younger years (for example, M&D says that all players must play close to even during showcases) and trying and get all their girls involved in scoring and/or playing lacrosse the right way. They also don't bring in players in the middle of the summer to win a few tournament, replacing girls who've played for them all year in the process.

Clearly some people are critical of M&Ds game plan at this particular year, which is fine, that's why it's great there are so many good clubs in the area. But to say they aren't developing girls as a club is silly. Their fall isn't fool, that's true, they practice 1-2 times a week. What are other clubs doing that's different when soccer and field hockey is going on?

Also, your private school assertion is odd. First of all, teams like Coppermine 28 and 29 already have a ton of private school girls. Not to mention, they've tried to partner with every private school in the area to say their club has a "special invite" to admission event clinics. Clearly they would like to cement the connection between Coppermine and private schools, which is fine and probably smart, but undermines your statement. One of the reasons clubs like M&D, Skywalkers, Heros have so many private school girls on their teams in older years is because their players are good and IIAM coaches have recruited them to their schools. If you have good public girls on your team, it will happen to them too.

Finally, if you think any team vying to be at the top aren't going to cut a girl in who's been playing for them for 5 years if someone better shows up at tryouts and they need to make space - you're dreaming.

Spot on. People forget.... they are in 6th grade. The reasons some clubs may be doing better now is simply two fold, girls matured quicker and in turn they are bigger faster stronger right now (that will change) and they play to win at all cost against M&D. Perfect example, since Coppermine loves to chime in, they have two goalies and they played both in all games this fall except against M&D where they played their top goalie (drastic difference in talent between the two) the entire game. Also, they had girls stand on the sideline a full game against M&D but not against anyone else. In contrast, M&D played their girls, all of them.

So much will change in the next 2-3 years. M&D will gain and lose girls like all clubs but it will be in large part due to the Childs development physically and whether they want to continue to compete at a high level.

M&D is fortunate to have strong and physically mature girls who are already good at lacrosse come to their teams early. So their teams are particularly strong when girls are young. It is not the coaching or the M&D model. Their coaches aren't any better than other clubs. M&D is a collector of already talented players. And I can't speak to the 29 black team but M&D teams also play to win. They emphasize winning at all costs. They do not play all of their players equally and also have girls sit the bench for entire games against strong teams. They like to win and they play to win. Since most girls on M&D teams are already strong lax players their teams stay somewhat strong in high school. It's in recruiting when M&D coaches are forced to play players equally that the various abilities on the teams start to show and they start to lose games. In high school and recruiting is when other club teams "sneak up" on M&D because they've been forced to develop players as opposed to just taking the best and biggest 5/6/7th graders. if you watched the 23,24 & 25 black coaches play advancing tournaments and NGLL games before recruiting you would see that lots of girls sit while others play almost the whole game. You will see the same as the 26,27, & 28's come through. If the coach stays around the 29's will play the same way. You will see M&D parents shocked when the girls get to high school at how many other good girls and good teams start to pop up. Their games get more competitive and they start to lose games. Same happens to heros.

I don’t know about this fall, but M&D 2029 has definitely played to win the last couple of years in NGLL play. As another person mentioned, playing time is not equal and there have been games where several players have not touched the field. That should not be happening at this age (and younger).

It’s not unique to them. However, glad to say that my daughters team plays everyone every game. Not equally, but a decent amount.

In NGLL they definitely play to win and that's why they went 7-1 and 8-0 the last two years in NGLL play. Losing to Hero's in two Championships. That's the whole point people are trying to make. If they wanted to, they could play less girls and be more successful. It is not a knock on any player on their team, it's just the reality of lacrosse at this age. Most teams are carried by a few girls and the more they play and touch the ball, the more successful the team. You are correct in saying at this age girls should see the field and I bet that ways on the minds these M&D coaches for this 29 team. Otherwise, I think you would have seen better results this fall.

Point being, too much stock being put into the fall by Coppermine parents excited for two one goal wins. Which, they should be happy about not saying otherwise. I just don't read into it as much. Come spring M&D will be just fine.

So sometimes they play to win and sometimes they don't... sounds like an identity crisis. Here is my guess with what is really going on given the nature of club lacrosse... They play to win and win. Instead of the team being happy for one another, parents complain because their kid didn't play enough or didn't touch the ball enough, coach caves, kid plays and shoots more. Team struggles. It happens everywhere and it seems M&D is willing to make concessions in the fall to keep parents happy in order to win in the spring.

Easier to say you weren't trying than to congratulate Coppermine on good games.

Nah… we all said good game. It’s you all coming on here acting like you’re now national champs for winning a few fall lacrosse games. Tells me you know how big of a win it was otherwise you would, as they say, act like you been there before. See you in the spring.

Whoa Nelly! Online anonymous forum tennis match going on here. Haha. This is BE, Coppermine's coach. A parent made me aware of the comments on this website and I took a quick look back to try to understand why this is happening... To be clear I have never commented on this website and anything said prior to today do not represent my values or views. I will not be commenting on this site again after today.

It's unfortunate that comments can be made and answered anonymously (possibly by the same person), creating a false narrative on what is happening on a 6th grade lacrosse team. Comments about my looks, my coaches, and directly commenting about my players is unacceptable. Would our daughter's be proud of this online banter - would you show them you wrote it? Why is Coppermine living so rent free that anytime a question is asked we are brought back to the forefront?

How we coach our team, the players development, our personnel decisions and approach to games is the business of the club, coaches, players, and families we coach for and no one else. Yes I coach to try to win and winning is part of an overall team experience equation for a competitive team. We also treat our players and their families like family, working with them to provide an abundance of opportunities to develop their lacrosse skills and life leadership qualities. If that's not for you then get in where you fit in and that's ok. I as well as all coaches have made decisions that they would take back and just like our players, we evolve and grow.

I have zero issue with any lacrosse team or program we play. I love that we can compete with M&D, Hero's, Maryland United, Eaglestix, LIYJ, Ace's, etc. These are all great programs that make us work hard to be better. I want our team to find ways to be successful against all of these teams as they are all very tough teams. I also want to see our teams represent the Maryland area well and grow the game.

This is our 3rd time through the club lacrosse scene as parents. The lacrosse scene is a smaller and more tight knit community and our focus should be on lifting each other up, showcasing we are the class of the game. We are neighbors, friends, and often share networks. As you start to get into the college process, you will find that your daughter's efforts to get engaged with her potential landing spots by attending camps, emailing interest, updating their online profile, etc. will be far more valuable then anything else. Most importantly they will fall back on the education they receive when lacrosse is over.

I'd like to respectfully ask that the back and forth games come to an end. Let's be better and use this site for it's true purpose which helping folks.

Take care all and good luck to all of our local youth who we are raising to lead us down the road.

So, fall is over and the spring NGLL is next. How many teams will we see in the "A" division? Will they go to two brackets like they do in the 28 and 27 division and if so, how would you think they should be split?

BE scared everyone away....

My expectation is it will be structured similar to this. Based on last year's NGLL regular season and playoffs, the top four would be seeded coming in as 1) Heros, 2) M&D, 3) MDU, 4) Coppermine. Split those teams accordingly and then distribute the rest evenly based on their 2022 regular season standings.

*Group*
Heros Green
Coppermine
Next Level
BLC
Renegades
Skywalkers
Legends (moves up after winning B).


*Group *
M&D
MD United
Integrity
Pride
Limelight
Heros White (moves up based on last years performance in B).

This would probably be ideal, but I believe that in the past they've done North/South divisions based on location and logistics. So M&D, Coppermine, Skywalkers, Legends, Limelight would most likely be in the "North Division" while MDU, Heros, Next Level, BLC, Pride, Integrity would be in the "South Division" so on and so forth. It doesn't always mean balanced divisions, but this is generally how they've done it in the past.

Considering all the games are played at central locations, not sure location or logistics really matters. Everyone plays at the same locations.

I do think with possibly 12-13 teams competing in the "A" division this year, two divisions within the A division is a must.

Heros white may not move up because they already have their A team in the division regardless of their performance.

The white team will be in the A division.

White was not in A last year for the 28s. And if they didn't win the B division they aren't guaranteed to move up.

There is a possibility that a team like Stars could move up ahead of them if they enter their B team in NGLL this year.

White team has been in A in 2027 the entire time of NGLL. Its a year by year thing.

White was not in A last year. They were able to beat all of their regular-season competition by a healthy margin. They lost to Legends in the championship. I believe they asked to play up for the coming Spring and were granted that request. They will give a number of these established A teams a run for their money.

Exactly which established A teams do you see them giving a run?

I see White playing competitive games against Next Level, BLC, Skywalkers, Integrity, Legends, and Limelight. Their biggest problem will simply be a lack of depth whereas other teams will have more firepower.

The club names def helps. Look at the last couple years. M&D , Heros and SW dominate the big schools. Look it up.

Yes, because they Have top level talent, are playing in the top brackets, And have recruiting connections. Guess who will also be in a similar boat in a few years.. Coppermine and MDU .Just because things have happened a certain way in the past does not mean they will continue that way forever. The gameIs growing and clubs are expanding period.

I understand the thinking with Coppermine since they've hired Tucker but what is the thinking with MDU? I look at them differently since they just recently got acquired. Feel like these groups that are acquiring clubs and rolling them up are taking the personal connection out of it and it feels very transactional. I would have said before the sale that MDU does have a good representation in the collegiate recruiting scene.

Tucker can connect top schools with the top talent. Coppermine and MDU don’t have that yet and watch as some of the 28 and 29 jump instead of sticking with their current team.

[Anonymous]

Tucker can connect top schools with the top talent. Coppermine and MDU don’t have that yet and watch as some of the 28 and 29 jump instead of sticking with their current team.[/quote]

Are you saying top players will leave Coppermine and MDU for other clubs? That isn't the case from what occurred this past summer.