BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2027 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Whats the point Mr I have nothing better to do with my time? Also what was the championship final score?

Ha, Fluffy Bunnies played the bottom 3 teams. How bad did they get beat by the Drip Kings.

This was an off season tournament with a quirky format, makeshift rosters, eligibility cheating, silly team names, and Dads in dense shoes acting like Karens - why does anybody care who won?

I think the issue may be no one likes a cheater.

Except that it's not cheating. The kid is currently enrolled in 8th grade - that's the only applicable rule. And which team(s) can you confirm are all entirely on-age?

If an older kid is playing younger kids - its cheating. The rules are wrong.

No it’s not. Just because you say it doesn’t make it so.

Once you determine which teams were entirely on-age you should announce the real winner of the tournament.

Verify class and none of this thread happens.

I think I can explain what is going on here for those that are confused....

- Drip Kings are an "All Star" team consisting of players from the Elite Division of HOCO.

- They have at least one confirmed holdback on the team (Crabs kid) but probably more. They are in 8th grade. Someone is accusing them of being in 9th grade, which if true is fool, but probably not true. They are technically within the "rules". Which is kind of a cluster because in reality there are no rules in regards to age/grade in youth lacrosse. It's up to each tournament and league to make their own rules. The only org close to a governing body is US lacrosse and they have zero power to mandate anything to anyone.

- Drip Kings have been flying under the radar this summer because they have been entering tournaments that are full of teams with holdbacks so those parents are used to it and somewhat tolerate it if it means that their team is winning with those holdbacks. These teams are the ones that play in Elite HOCO and consist mostly of private school boys.

- The Drip Kings are playing down in the MMILL which consists of AA and AAA teams (Kelly Post, Breakers, Sidewinders) who are mostly public school non holdback boys.

- They entered a Sixes tournament where half of the teams are A-AA level teams with close to zero holdbacks, But probably a summer birthday or two that are pre-first kids, not kids repeating 8th grade for sports reasons.

- The A-AAA teams are pissed because these guys decided to play down against on age kids (well.... mostly on age and most certainly no where near the number of holdback/reclass kids up in the Elite level teams).

- Someone decided to out the Crab kid by number and initials when they posted a vid of him dunking on Team MD Red, which got all the lax Mom's clutching their pearls and crying "they are only children!"

- All the holdback apologists claim they aren't breaking the rules. Everyone else is fed up with them.

Where I come from, Northern Virginia, rec lacrosse is age based, but all the divisions consist of two year age bands. Every game has players up to twenty-four months apart going against each other, and it is completely legal. Do you think all the older kids who play under those rules are cheaters too? And even if lacrosse were age based with just one year per division, you would still have kids up to twelve months apart going against each other. If a kid with a January birthday smokes a kid with a December birthday, would you say he is a cheater?

Had no idea so many fluffy bunny (team Maryland) parents are here. It’s time to get over it and move on. Stop making excuses why you lost. Could of taken top 5 kids of drip kings still would of smoked them. Kids started shooting behind the back just to make it interesting. I think at one point they stopped keeping score.

If that is how you feel, you should think about moving your son to a sport other than lacrosse, or moving into a lower division where there are few or no holdbacks. Seriously. Whether you like it or not, in this region of the country, starting in 7th and 8th grade, the top teams in the elite divisions (Hawks, Crabs, MadLax, 91, etc.) will have a significant percentage of their roster with birthdays before September 1 of the appropriate year. I can't tell you exactly what the percentage is, but a conservative estimate is 25%, a realistic estimate is closer to 50%, and some would say that certain teams are well over 50%. of the players who are "on age" and are truly great players, they and their families do not care about the holdback status of their teammates or opponents. They actually relish the challenge of being on the field with good players. But if having your son go against a player who is a year older bothers you to the point where you lost the ability to be rational (yes, it is irrational to call somebody a cheater because you do not like the rule they are following) you should get out of elite lacrosse, for your own sanity and for the sake of your son. You are teaching him the wrong lessons. I hope this helps.

Yea, but since they are trying to shut the middle class out of lacrosse that will never happen.

No, I think the issue is that some parents can't handle seeing their son's team lose a game, or their son is not the superstar that he used to be. there has to be a "reason."

Totally agree with the sentiment here, but 25% is the high end. To suggest 50% of the players on the elite teams are born prior to September 1st of the appropriate year is fool.

Too many people think every 2027 kid with hair on their legs is a holdback. They're not. Some kids hit puberty before others, and those kids tend to find their way onto the elite teams because hitting puberty early gives them an advantage. It is what it is, and there's nothing nefarious about it.

Thumbs up for each of these posts. I also agree the real number is lower than what people think, and most importantly not worth ruining your enjoyment over. If your kid is good, next year they'll be playing against kids 4-5 years older than them.

Stop crying Fluffy Bunnies and post the dang score.

100% wrong. Over 50% of the club teams have pre-k holdbacks. The national teams are 85% reclass / pre-k holdbacks.
US lacrosse just sent another announcement earlier this week with a change from age to grade coming as soon as January.
We'll soon see how it all shakes out and how much these teams will have to change.

Not quite. I agree that tournaments should do a better job of verifying that everyone in a 2027 event is in the 2027 class in school. But folks also have a problem with a 2027 who was born before 9/1/08, so even if tournaments effectively verified class year, the thread would still be happening.

It's not hair on the legs in 8th grade, it was hair on the legs entering 7th grade. The real number is over 25% easily in the elite division. That's 6+ players out of a roster of 24. It is breaking the rules when a player who is in the class above plays in a lower class division. It happens all the time and gets caught all the time. Crabs did it last winter in AZ and I suspect 91 is doing it now. It's not next year and it's not high school yet. it's middle school and it's club with a 1 class eligibility.

Elite club rosters starting in 9th grade are different, let me assure you. Out of the starting line for 91, Crabs, FCA, Hawks, ML, etc the vast majority are holdbacks from private schools - or other sorts of "year older" kids. Are holdbacks "50% of the roster?" Probably not quite. And while you'll find holdbacks at the next level down on every.single.team (Sidewinders, Predators, Cannons etc) it's probably only 3-5 kids per team. This is what HS club lax looks like. If your son stayed with a club because of some promise of "we don't cut players" well, you'll find out what every other 9th grade parent in that situation found out.

As someone else said, either your kid is comfortable backing up those kids on an elite squad, or he's comfortable competing with non-elite holdbacks at the AA/AAA hoco equivalent level. Long story short, move past it or change sports. The true waste of time and emotional energy is to think about it too much, because until the rules change, the rules won't change.

Its well over 50%.
The rules are changing for Youth/MS.
No need to change sports to accommodate rich parents that want their kids competing against younger kids.

It’s not over 50%.
Rules aren’t changing.

Continue to complain on message boards please. It’s so useful.

I also disagree. Marc Riccio just put it out there earlier this week. Change is coming in January for U-15.
Online arguments aside, we'll soon see how the rule change affects the current rosters.

GHCLC has no affiliation with US Lacrosse and just put out their 2023 rules with no changes.

It doesn’t actually say age classifications starts in January. It says they will introduce strategies to implement it.

It does seem like it’s going to be pushed by usa lacrosse. Can’t wait to see how they water it down to still allow the holdbacks.

It’s going to be implemented by the clubs through USL and likely an app.

Many clubs already require USL memberships for insurance purposes during tryouts. Birth data is already collected.

Birth dates will now be verified through USL each year during tryouts. One stop and done.

Some sneaky rich person shenanigan will be allowed for sure.

USL found a way to be relevant- Be the gatekeeper for umbrella insurance and manage age verifications.
All simple and easy to do with today’s app technology.

It's laughably easy to implement. Just make the change already with fairness and safety in mind.
Get the middle class engaged again.
Stop letting the sport be killed to accommodate parents college recruitment strategies.

What’s the deal with the middle class? Do you think aged based will make club dues cheaper?

No.
The public school kids cant pre-k/reclass - the private school kids can and do.
Paul Rabil addresses the lack of MC support/viewership from the PLL in a recent podcast.
The aim is to change the perception of lacrosse and attract MC support.
You can't win them over when rich private school parents manage the rules at the youth level.

Pardon my ignorance, but why can't public school kids reclass or start kindergarten on the later side?

Many public school kids (particularly boys) start kindergarten late. Public schools won't allow a student to repeat a grade that they successfully completed. Private schools will gladly take the parents money for another year.

They can. Most of the elite public school laxxers from PA (if you haven't seen yet, you'll see soon) took advantage of the PA law that you don't have to enter public school until age 7. Which I'm fine with, except their parents act offended if you infer their kid is a holdback/reclass. Even though you've all seen all the kids' birthdays on various rosters.

It is very difficult in the public school system to justify (and get the paperwork straight) for a kid to not advance to 1st, 7th, or 9th grade when he was successful in the prior grade. Public schools are graded by state and federal regulators on advancement rates.

Even in the MIAA schools it's not always simple. One elite lax parent, let's call him Bark Billen, a fictional name, tried to hold back his very talented athlete son at one school, let's call it, Paint Saul's. The kid was a great athlete and a straight A student, and the school said no.....because it made no sense. So, Bark Billen's son took a 2nd 8th grade year at a different private school, let's call it, BicDonogh. Totally made up names to protect the innocent!

No one has ever heard that story before. Thanks for sharing!

One of the many great thing about travel lacrosse is that it prepares boys for high school and college sports, which in turn prepare them for real life. Look at the holdback debate this way. Families who are successful, rich, and well connected find a way to make the system work in their favor. Those who do not fall into those categories can take one of two paths - figure out a way to thrive and be happy within the system, or complain endlessly how the successful, rich, and well connected get their way. That is travel lacrosse, and that is real life, whether you like it or not.

Turn your statement around. It should read: Families who make the system work in their favor, find a way to become connected, successful and rich. This is real life.

Also, just because some families holdback their kids doesn’t mean they can afford it. I am not a supporter of holdbacks but to each and their own.