BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Girls 2029 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

The 28s and 29s aren't leaving....that is wishful thinking by the other top teams.

The other top teams that can't beat the 28 and 29s!

You guys are awfully full of yourselves for a team that's currently ranked #7.

Are you saying top players will leave Coppermine and MDU for other clubs? That isn't the case from what occurred this past summer.[/quote]

It will happen before high school. you wont see it until your top sneak away for elite clubs.

Well when someone says a few posts up, the team doesn't have talent and any good players will leave you need to defend that. A top ten ranking shows they do in fact have talent. And that talent plans to stay together

I don't think anyone would deny a team ranked in the top ten has to have some talent, but if you've been periodically checking in with this site, you know the bragging about this particular team goes beyond that. You'd expect them to be the best team in the league based on their presence here. It's like they want to believe they're the 28s...but they're not.

Personally I hope they do stay and continue to push M&D and Heros. I enjoy going to tournaments and NGLL game knowing we have to show up and play 3 of the better teams in the country in Heros, Coppermine and MDU. Throw LIJ and Eaglestix into the mix and that's a heck of a field. We should celebrate the fact the 29 age group has a ton of talent.

It will happen before high school. you wont see it until your top sneak away for elite clubs.[/quote]

Keeping thinking its circa 2015. No one is leaving the up and coming clubs and they are becoming the Elite clubs.

Keeping thinking its circa 2015. No one is leaving the up and coming clubs and they are becoming the Elite clubs.[/quote]

They aren't leaving FOR "elite" clubs when they are BECOMING an elite club themselves. There is no reason for them to leave. They will have just as good of a chance at being recruited as those on M&D, Heros, and Skywalkers. Hopefully this post stays around long enough to prove you wrong. The game is expanding outside of Maryland as well. Coaches are finding Athletes all over the country. So your status quo way of getting on M&D as a 2nd grader with the hopes that you will be garunteed a college scholarship is less realistic than those saying coppermine, MDU, or similar club can break into the top.

Here's the thing, the Director and Recruiting Coordinator at MDU hasn't changed. True took over a giant administrative burden that now the director does not have to worry about. (website, social media, registrations, uniforms and apparel)

3-4 years down the road, who knows, but as of now, nothing in the relationship category has changed.

M&D and HG will add talent, no doubt about it, but its going to be made up of a few diamonds in the rough and out of state players. can you grab a Coppermine kid here or a MDU kid there, sure it happens.

They aren't leaving FOR "elite" clubs when they are BECOMING an elite club themselves. There is no reason for them to leave. They will have just as good of a chance at being recruited as those on M&D, Heros, and Skywalkers. Hopefully this post stays around long enough to prove you wrong. The game is expanding outside of Maryland as well. Coaches are finding Athletes all over the country. So your status quo way of getting on M&D as a 2nd grader with the hopes that you will be garunteed a college scholarship is less realistic than those saying coppermine, MDU, or similar club can break into the top.[/quote]

Coppermine is the one I can see making the biggest strides. They have the facilities, Tucker and coaches seem to be doing a great job developing the players. M&D is going to be in for a rude awakening when they don't get kids to jump after being developed elsewhere. Their philosophy has never been about developing players it was a "build it and they will come" philosophy. If anything the 29 M&D team could be the one with players looking to jump once they realize the other clubs give a similar opportunity with better facilities and coaching.

Im not sure how big of a feather Tucker is. Sure, shes well respected with a track record, but wouldn't the directors at SW, MDU, M&D and Hero's still have better and longer relationships with D1 coaches? There's a trust factor built over years that when these director's say "this kid is one that will help your program", you know its legit.

Im not saying Tucker isn't good for Coppermine, it is, just not saying it leaps Coppermine to the top.

Here is my other concern, and this goes for M&D as well, who has what, 100 kids (Black, Red,, White, Shore, Orlando) they are now trying to find homes for each year? I'd prefer to be on a club with 40 or so that they are responsible for recruitment.

Maybe the point is being missed… M&D will struggle to sell their kids to the top programs if the top kids aren’t there. That’s the discussion. The current M&D roster at the 2029 has maybe 2-3 top level kids who would be starters on any club in the country. And the clubs in Maryland know who they are, this has been discussed previously. The rest are no better than the top players at other clubs. Now it’s 6th grade so a lot will change but unless M&D gets the kids from other programs, I don’t see them improving as it seems they have regressed as a team, at no fault of the kids on the roster. Teams around them are getting better.

Here's a fool thought, maybe the team that wins doesn't always have the most talent?

M&D can still develop in house and they will certainly pull some kids who want that brand. As previously stated, M&D will pull in kids from other states, they always do and always will.

Coppermine is the one I can see making the biggest strides. They have the facilities, Tucker and coaches seem to be doing a great job developing the players. M&D is going to be in for a rude awakening when they don't get kids to jump after being developed elsewhere. Their philosophy has never been about developing players it was a "build it and they will come" philosophy. If anything the 29 M&D team could be the one with players looking to jump once they realize the other clubs give a similar opportunity with better facilities and coaching.[/quote]

This person who keeps saying M&D doesn’t develop players is hilarious. Their teams are good across all ages… they must be doing a terrible job.

Anyway, the teams that are committed to developing players are not necessarily the teams who are winning every game at the 6th grade level because they do things like distribute playing time and challenge the girls to learn new skills and build IQ, which isn’t always smooth sailing. The teams who only care about the win in 6th grade ought to be far more concerning.

This person who keeps saying M&D doesn’t develop players is hilarious. Their teams are good across all ages… they must be doing a terrible job.

Anyway, the teams that are committed to developing players are not necessarily the teams who are winning every game at the 6th grade level because they do things like distribute playing time and challenge the girls to learn new skills and build IQ, which isn’t always smooth sailing. The teams who only care about the win in 6th grade ought to be far more concerning.[/quote]

With that said, whoever this is who keeps pointing to other ages in a 2029 forum is hilarious.... we are talking the 2029s here. But keep using other age groups to justify why the 29s are okay. Tell me this, how much do they practice as a team fall, winter and spring? How much offseason skills training do they offer their kids? Any film study (I know the best team in the 29s does this)? Coach check ins with expectations and feedback?

Coppermine offers free clinics year around, Coppermine and Heros practice year around with film study sessions and constant touch points with their players. All of this is "developing" the athlete. This is top level club lacrosse, the expectation is far greater given both the financial and time commitment of these athletes and their families.

So, MAYBE the Coach is just waiting for the girls who were developed elsewhere to come like everyone else is pointing out... I can assure you the people who seem frustrated over the "iso" lacrosse are also pointing out your flawed theory that they are learning "high IQ" lacrosse. Seems you like to blame 6th graders for not getting it with your smooth sailing comment but as an observer, I think you should look internally at the staff before blaming an 11/12 year old because, if they aren't getting it, then maybe it isn't being instructed very well or dare I say, at all...

This forum is full of M&D coaches and parents who try to sell the brand and protect the brand. They do so by trying to bring down other clubs. I suggest everyone who is thinking of taking a sip really do some research first before jumping ship at this age, 2029.

With that said, whoever this is who keeps pointing to other ages in a 2029 forum is hilarious.... we are talking the 2029s here. But keep using other age groups to justify why the 29s are okay. Tell me this, how much do they practice as a team fall, winter and spring? How much offseason skills training do they offer their kids? Any film study (I know the best team in the 29s does this)? Coach check ins with expectations and feedback?

Coppermine offers free clinics year around, Coppermine and Heros practice year around with film study sessions and constant touch points with their players. All of this is "developing" the athlete. This is top level club lacrosse, the expectation is far greater given both the financial and time commitment of these athletes and their families.

So, MAYBE the Coach is just waiting for the girls who were developed elsewhere to come like everyone else is pointing out... I can assure you the people who seem frustrated over the "iso" lacrosse are also pointing out your flawed theory that they are learning "high IQ" lacrosse. Seems you like to blame 6th graders for not getting it with your smooth sailing comment but as an observer, I think you should look internally at the staff before blaming an 11/12 year old because, if they aren't getting it, then maybe it isn't being instructed very well or dare I say, at all...

This forum is full of M&D coaches and parents who try to sell the brand and protect the brand. They do so by trying to bring down other clubs. I suggest everyone who is thinking of taking a sip really do some research first before jumping ship at this age, 2029.[/quote]

As BE said if the club ain’t for you maybe you should find a new one. Coming on here to bash a club while staying anonymous does no good. M&D isn’t for everyone. That’s okay, there are plenty of options. No one will be upset if you decided it wasn’t for your daughter.

To be clear, the initial post say "M&D is going to be in for a rude awakening when they don't get kids to jump after being developed elsewhere. Their philosophy has never been about developing players it was a "build it and they will come" philosophy." This comment, as well as several previous comments, is about the club - so LOGICALLY my response was about the club. And it isn't "blaming" to say sometimes when people are learning to do new things, both individually and as a team, they struggle at first...kids and coaches. And this comment wasn't about the M&D 2029 team, is was just a general comment about how people learn new things - aside from your team I guess, which is good at everything they do right away? Congratulations.

As many M&D parents and coaches as you claim on are here, there are clearly plenty of people on here on a mission to tear M&D down and other clubs down. One has to wonder why you bother if you're so content with your child's club...and why do you sound excessively angry every every time you comment about M&D?

There are only 6 clubs in the nation that all three of its middle school age teams are in the top-12 of the rankings.

3 of them are in Maryland (Hero's M&D MD United), to me, the club with the biggest upside is MDU if it can continue to develop, retain and add talent. Big if obviously, but but I don't think the local clubs to MD United are in right direction (M&D Shore/Integrity/CC Lax).

Are you implying that Coppermine has no upside because their 27 team is ranked lower than their other teams? Let's be real here.

OMG not everything is about Coppermine.

Coppermine has little track record with HS age teams.
Sure, they have "upside" but they do have a few disadvantages vs say other clubs with upside.

First, is location. They have to compete locally with Skywalkers which does have an elite track record for HS recruitment. SW isn't good in younger ages, that is undeniable. But they tend to get really good quick, case in point, 2027 SW now in top-15, was ranked 58th in 2020-2021.

Second, Tucker doesn't have experience on this side of the fence, that is, the one trying to get players recruited vs recruiting players. Maybe that doesn't matter but its worth noting.

Third, and this is just my opinion, with Coppermine Central, Coppermine North, Coppermine West, they may be spread a little too thin. The brand does get watered down that way.

Coppermine Middle School teams are hard to figure out. The 28 and 29's are really solid. But their 27 team is really, really bad. Maybe one-offs happen in most programs.

I would say the next 2 years will dictate if the new direction of Coppermine takes hold. But I will say along with M7D and Hero's they have the best chance to become relevant at these 2 particular age groups.

Coppermine 2027 is not "really bad". They finished last year ranked 25th.
They are certainly trending in the wrong direction (ranked #12 in 2020-2021) and have a good amount of girls who are soccer players and missed some fall tournaments.

They even made the NGLL playoffs in 2022 (Granted that was due to uneven division alignment).

I'd put them 7th in the mid-atlantic region at moment.

This.

I think over time Coppermine will develop a strong recruiting rep, but it is likely years off. The 28 class will likely be their first big time class.

Just let the trolls be and don't feed them. M&D has a fantastic reputation. It is and has been the number 1 club for a long time. Let people be upset, jealous, or whatever.

A few things need to happen.
Tucker needs to be in full time. Or find another recruiting coordinator.
The best on their 28 team don’t jump ship.
The coach better be good at getting buy in from all.
None of this is proven at Coppermine.

sw has some pretty good coaches that will cycle down. Not sure who’s bashing the M&D 29 coach but she has a few high school state championships. Does any other 29 coach have that on their resume ?

One of the best HS coaches in the state, and that will do these girls well when they are in HS. We are talking about 6th grade. I don't know her or her style but I have seen many great coaches who couldn't coach the younger ages. Big difference.

Where would the top players go and why would they jump ship?

Do you know the coach or know how things work? Sounds like no.

Listen, end of day, HG and M&D add a few kids every season and replace the back end of their roster every season. Most of these kids they add will be the top few on other local clubs, Coppermine being one of them.

Doesn't mean it always happens, it just means that typically how to plays out.

Over half the kids on those two clubs in 3rd grade are long gone by HS. That's they way it works. Then they bring in top kids from other states to play for them.
Yellow Jackets does this as well.

Every grad year is different obviously and that player/coach/parent relationship goes a long way to keeping the kids at the same club year after year.

You are putting way too much stock into the job of a recruiting coordinator. Having a daughter who has already been through the process at a top club, the bulk of the work comes from the player and the parents. Showcases, camps, being at the right tournaments have much more of an impact than the recruiting coordinator.

There is no reason for the girls at coppermine to jump ship. If they remain together, add some players every year, and continue to improve they will be a contender with the other top clubs. The scare tactics from some clubs trying to convince girls they need to leave their current clubs is just to try to improve their own situation.

It happens the summer after 7th and 8th grade every year. Top players from 2nd tier club leave for M&D, Heros and SW, driven by their recruiting reputations and connections.

Biggest clubs impacted by this are typically MDU, Integrity, NEMS and TLC. Now that Coppermine is a top 10 club for the 28 and 29 age bracket, i would expect SOME but not all top players to leave.

The real question is can Coppermine attact talent to backfill those spots.

I would expect the Coppermine 28s to be more at risk than 29s because a top of the top 28s have older sisters playing at SW and Heros.

Getting rid of parent coaches would go a long way to helping Coppermine retain its top talent.

Nice talking points, too bad none of this applies.

Top players were just added this summer and no one is leaving for SW or Hero's. May want to check those rosters again.

Honestly, how many clubs don't have parent coaches? Skywalkers maybe only one im aware of that has it as a policy?

A majority of M&Ds coaches are not parent coaches, at least head coach. Not having parent coaches is a big competitive advantage when it comes to recruiting.

A majority of M&Ds coaches are not parent coaches, at least head coach. Not having parent coaches is a big competitive advantage when it comes to recruiting.[/quote]

the above is not true. M&D has WAAAYYYYY too many parents coaching their teams. The current M&D rosters below just how entrenched parents are at the club. I don't know how Skywalkers manages to pull it off but their rule of not having parental involvement should be duplicated.

24 black - assistant coach parent
24 red - head and assistant coach parents
25 black - head and two assistants coaches parents plus a conditioning coach that's a parent
25 red and 26 black and red have no parent coaches
27 black - both head and assistant coaches parents
27 red - head coach parent
28 black - head coach and both assistants parents
28 red - assistant coach parent
29 black - both head and assistant coach parents
29 red - head coach parent
30 black - three assistant coaches parents

It a shame that a top club like M&D can't attract coaches and eliminate all the problems that come with having parents involved with coaching teams there. I do agee with the above post - that not having a parent coach is beneficial in recruiting.

Outside of maybe a coache's kid getting a role they don't deserve or PT maybe they don't deserve, what else is issue with parent coaching? How is it a negative for recruiting to colleges?

There's several issues - the two you named are biggest. Also - those girls retain spots on the rosters that they may not deserve. The coaches friends kids retain spots that they may or may not deserve. Friends of the coach's daughters retain roster spots, etc... You will see as girls get into high school and tryout for things like American select and Under Armour but more importantly when they go to prospect days being on a top team at a top club will get them assigned to the top groups or squads at those types of events.. They are automatically assumed to be a top player. Which is not always the case. Often they're mid to bottomr roster and the parent is coaching to benefit their own kid. The other issue with recruiting is that a coach can not be objective about players when they're trying to get their kid recruited. Say the coach has a defender daughter and a college coach calls and says I need one or two defenders.... will that coach be honest and objective or will they undeservingly promote their own kid. You'd be shocked how much it goes on.

Ask anyone who is on a team where the coach's kid is not one of the strongest players and you will see. I'm sure it goes across the board for all sports