BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2027 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Good article but too late for thie age group. Also, why even bring up US Lacrosse? They've been a lame duck forever and the real pioneer has been The Circuit. They used Authenticate and it was immediately noticed by parents and players how much physically smaller the rosters were without the large amount of pre June 1 players and without the older class kids playing down due to class verification.

I like the Gladwell reference too. With databases, it would be even easier to tighten up the rosters even more by moving to a monthly date. Please don't give me "teams are disrupted" nonsense. Practice times and rosters change all the time. There is no need to select an arbitrary month. Make it the first of each month. 3 Step will have to be the leader and clubs will adapt. The lesser clubs will adapt a lot faster than the traditional holdback powerhouses.

Hots are trying to bring a team for the elite division at hoco. Crabs about to get dipped in butter

There is no need to select an arbitrary month. Make it the first of each month. .[/quote]

Huh? Instead of having a tourney bracket for kids born in 2009, you would have separate tourney brackets for kids born in Jan 2009, Feb 2009, March 2009 . . . ?

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm not following.

I think getting kids to play kids born in a 12 month window is fine, whatever the 12 month window is. Some kids will be a little disadvantaged (i.e. 12/31 birthdays) but less disadvantaged than the kids playing kids 18-24 months older than them today.

Huh? Instead of having a tourney bracket for kids born in 2009, you would have separate tourney brackets for kids born in Jan 2009, Feb 2009, March 2009 . . . ?

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm not following.

I think getting kids to play kids born in a 12 month window is fine, whatever the 12 month window is. Some kids will be a little disadvantaged (i.e. 12/31 birthdays) but less disadvantaged than the kids playing kids 18-24 months older than them today.[/quote]

u14, u13, ... If you are under 14 - you play u14. If you are under 13 - u13. Instead of class based divisions, you move to 'u' divisions.

The point of Gladwell and every holdback attacker is for kids before puberty, which is around 14-15 years old, there is a tremendous physical and maturity difference in kids born 6 months apart.

The circuit allowed each team three exceptions and moved the date to a 16 months window.

The oldest kids in the division could all still play.

Anything other than a 12 month window is a joke.

The Circuit did something and there was a noticeable difference. 3 exceptions to June 1 was better than an entire team. It was a start.

The best system is a monthly age based system and go to the “U” system. You have a birthday and you move up to the older age group the next month.

At the very, very least; double holdback and verification of current class is needed.

Monthly system is completely silly and would make rosters impossible. Lets say you are a coach and your 3 attack and your 2 goalies all have April birthdays. On May 1st they are ineligible for your team and move up to the older team. How likely is it that your younger team had 3 attack and 2 goalies with April birthdays to replace them?

Their elite teams are pay to play, a guest-player based model. Their regular teams are likely AAA at best. And that’s being generous.

Useless debate. New rule wont effect 2027. All real teams go to NLF NAL. Find something productive to be doin.

Agreed. No reason to over complicate it. Tryouts would be a mess. The majority of big tourneys are in June and July so August/Sept birthdays would still have an advantage.

u14, u13, ... If you are under 14 - you play u14. If you are under 13 - u13. Instead of class based divisions, you move to 'u' divisions.

The point of Gladwell and every holdback attacker is for kids before puberty, which is around 14-15 years old, there is a tremendous physical and maturity difference in kids born 6 months apart.[/quote]

This doesn’t work. You would have kids aging up to the next group in the middle of a summer tournament.

Idea is, you want to have teams compete together for a season. So, if you have it by north year, all the kids born in 2010 would play together from January 1 through Dec 31, and the team wouldn’t break apart mid season.

Exactly.

Mesa... you know where Grant Ament and Michael Sowers played club. So asking who they are seems like an uneducated question.

Wow. The holdback dig-in is strong on botc.

Tryouts would be a mess - what tryouts. Teams are pre-determined except for a couple of kids being swapped.

What if your entire attack is born in 1 month or both goalies are born in the same month - That's a ridiculous statement and that's the point. Grow the game and let other kids get a chance. It's called coaching. Let's see how your kid does when he's the youngest for a few months. Heaven forbid, your child may even have to play a different position.

You have kids aging up in the middle of a summer tournament. The only 2 age up days are June 1 and July 1. There are no tournaments August 1. Yes, going to need to coach a little and communicate with the other teams below and above you.

Who cares if teams break up during the course of the year. Families move, bones get broken and kids play different sports all the time. It's called growing the game. And I've got news for you. Most of the team and their parents would love to see their kids get some time over the giant older kid or the kid whose parents pay the coach or the coach's kid or the coach's drinking buddies kid. They really think their kid would be just as good if not better if they were just a little older. They are just being polite to you on the sideline. The real conversation is at home when they keep saying "if only sammy were born 6 months earlier, he'd easily be as good as Jackson." He's probably right.

Let's just make it Jan 1. Why? it's an arbitrary date on the calendar. Let's make it March 1 before HoCo or June 1 before the summer season or August 1 to match the month when most schools start.

I agree the monthly age up will never be implemented but it could be done and it's the most fair. How about every 3 months or even 6? Anything is better than 12 or the current 23+.

The criticism of The Circuit is ridiculous. They did something even if it was imperfect. People are angry because their giant kid who isn't that good was left off the roster because he wasn't one of the 3 exceptions or the "reclassing next year" was rejected.

I'd love to see a lower level tourney org like Aloha take a stab at it. I bet they'd still have enough registrations.

People crack me up calling Jan 1 an arbitrary date. It’s not. It’s literally the first day of the year.

People also crack me up calling Sept 1 an arbitrary date. It’s not. It’s suggested by US lacrosse. It’s used by other sports. It coincides with most school years nationally. It coincides with the youth lacrosse season.

When a date doesn’t meet whiny parents crying train gets loaded to leave the station.

You''re going to have to explain why New Year's day has any importance in athletics. And the September 1 day has no meaning when we're talking about club/rec sports rather than school sports. Also, the more dates you include, the more arbitrary those dates become.

The first step is to acknowledge kids, using 2027's as an example, born prior to 9/1/2007 shouldn't be 2027 athletes regardless of their enrollment. These are the double holdbacks and there are 5-10 in hoco in the 8th grade division every year.

The next is to have a verification system with age and class required. I have yet to run across one of these national all star teams who aren't using 9th graders on the 8th grade roster. The only 2 tournaments where that didn't happen was WSYL and The Circuit. They both verified.

If the system remains class-based, I would go further and eliminate 2007 birth dates altogether and maybe roll it all the way to June1. If the system were to magically change to age-based, I would argue for a February 1 and August 1 "age-up" date. This would capture the spring/summer and fall/winter season. This would also allow some kids to gain back some age and maturity disadvantages.

Agreed. The date doesn't matter. No matter what date you choose, some kids will have an advantage and some will have a disadvantage.

Even for the people suggesting the silly 13u classification, there will still be advantages. The summer is by far the most important time for club lax. If my kid's birthday is Aug 1st, he will have an advantage at every summer tourney every year. If my kid has a May 31st birthday he will be at a disadvantage every summer tourney season.

There will always be some age advantage. The goal should be to just shrink the size of the age advantage from 24 months to 12 months.

You are totally missing the point of the article. USL already has a 12 month range and it is completely ignored because they are a toothless entity. The major tournament organizers like 3Step, Adrenaline, NXT, Sandstorm and whoever need to realize they can fill up their fields with verified age and class teams.

3 Step already did that with the Circuit and made a little extra money on the side through the verification process. Look for the PLL junior events to implement the same thing. Once Cabel and guys like him realize they can make an extra $1 per registrant and they don't do anything, that'll speed it along.

Why are we still talking about this? These boys are going into high school. The hold back conversation ship has sailed.

With WSL huge success, and age base play coming next fall, expect to see U16 and U18 tournament and showcase opportunities.

Mostly true but if they institute a 12 month age window for 8th grade and below and leave HS level based on grade then next year could be interesting. The current batch of 2027 age kids who are holdbacks playing in 2028 will have no teams to play for in the spring season. They will be too old to play on the 8th grade age based teams and the 2027 HS freshman age club teams will have no spring season. Tryouts will have extra kids too, as the holdbacks will have to return to their 2027 teams to play fall and summer.

If I am following you correctly, the 2027 playing in 2028 would play for the 2027 club team next year and just not play high school as they are in 8th grade next year. Then in 9th grade they play back with the 2028 and do high school lacrosse. Why is that a big deal?

It's definitely not a big deal but it will have implications for some. The spring season is the primary lacrosse season so the holdbacks will miss out on that for one year. Rosters will get juggled as those kids bounce between age groups which would displace other kids. Overall still seems preferable to the current setup.

It's a bit early to say that.

Some of the Red Hots families were already making the drive for kids at other age groups who play for 91MD and other AAA HoCo level teams. So this doesn't surprise me.

Would be curious which 2027 kids' parents would and wouldn't make the weekly drive to HoCo in the spring. How many kids from the Natl Team vs AAA team vs AA team?

That's why they are proposing to grandfather it in, for a year.
To allow those kids exemptions.

Here is the issue. In spring 2024, 2028's who are too old under the new rules would have to miss their last season of HoCo, because they can't play 2028, and the 2027 class would no longer be in HoCo. Perhaps HoCo would grandfather that one class?

Then summer 2024 would be interesting because 2027 teams would be flooded with 2028's looking to play for just the summer. Those 2028 players are unlikely to join a team temporarily to ride the bench, so the 2028's would choose whatever level of play (elite, A, B) where they can be starters, which would push a lot of 2027's to the bench for one summer. Then in fall 2024, everything would return to normal. Whether or not these issues are a "big deal" probably depends on whether your own son is affected.

Why do they not have a team play for? They will take the place of the 2026 holdbacks. But now they will be the youngest Instead of the oldest.

No chance the member programs accept the Red Hots. They don’t come close to meeting the definition of membership. You really think Hawks and Madlax and 91 and …will allow it after rh packed their best players.

Ok. Maybe I’m too new to lacrosse or hoco doesn’t exist in NY?

2026 isn’t impacted. That’s high school. It’s youth.

No one would miss anything.

Hear me out.

The number don't change. They just shift:

Clubs just add a team. U15.

They ALREADY do this in club soccer, basketball etc.

Remember, you are allowed to play UP, not down.

U15 leagues generally have slightly lower numbers (think 4-6 team leagues, not 8) because their kids are now split between freshman teams and U15.

You can have hs freshmen playing on U15 clubs OR Freshman clubs. It's been my experience that the U15 clubs generally consist of older 8th graders, but an occasional hs freshman does play. That's fine. As long as they are of age. The better or older 8th graders generally play up into freshmen league.

But it works out. No issues in soccer.

Which is my point. It won’t impact 2027s. Maybe 28s and that’s a big maybe.

It wont impact 28s negatively.
They wont "miss" a year of lacrosse or not have somewhere to play. They (like everyone else), will have to find a new team next year.

I'm vaguely against holdbacks but I accept it's the current law of the land.

That said, I'm amused that a few hundred lax dads between Fairfax VA and Boston MA are shaking their heads this week over the $30-75K they spent on 1-2 years of holding back their future lax all stars. Money down the drain but at least you got some years of bragging rights in youth lax!

Exactly. Let's remember for a moment that club lax is, above all, a money making endeavor, and that every club director charging over about $1700/year is in on the grift.

Since that's the case, I can't imagine that said grifters won't find a way to accomodate the holdback parents waving $3K in their hands, crying that their relatively talented kid (for his real age) doesn't have a place to play. A product will quickly emerge to absorb that money, I mean, youth development need.

The hold back will still be able to develop and be the "big kid for his class" in high school.
But he'll be compared to kids his actual age, heading into high school when it comes to HS recruiting. His "real" skill level can't be hidden.
The good club teams will now consist of good, ON AGE kids. The large and average skilled kids will be slotted accordingly.
On the bright side, I'm know True will always have a slot for those kids.

Parents hold back their kids to improve their opportunities during their HS So year. That really is all that matters for college recruiting. This rule may actually improve that strategy. The kids would be forced to play against older kids longer which should make them better players. Then they get the age advantage during HS when it matters.

Howard County, MD spring lacrosse league - aka hoco. It's apparently a pretty big deal around these parts.

Until 9th grade and then no one discusses it again lol. Literally no one will talk about it, the rest of your kid's lax career.

However during those supposed development years, it is actually a very unique and high quality league to test teams/units, coaches, and players in brackets that are generally competitive. I've never heard of anything similar, anywhere else in the country for youth lax. And the facilities are great, compared to so many we all travel to in the summers and fall.

Howard County Lacrosse League has come out of their fall meeting. They decided to eliminate eligibility for all birthdays prior to Jan 1, 2008 in the 2027 division and all corresponding divisions below with the Jan 1 date. This decision was based largely on the polling by USCL, the recent article by Inside Lacrosse and the overwhelming sentiment to put an age ceiling on their divisions.