BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2028 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Tell me you’ve never played sports without telling me you’ve never played sports.

No, it's not. Participation is flat over 10 years and NCAA team growth is flat over 7 years. Participation since 2019 is down in both too.

Thanks for the correction, I know that the data locally is flat or slight reduction in participation but I attributed that to market saturation. I have to admit I have drank the USL kool aid of "the sport is exploding" and haven't actually looked at the national data.

I agree that mens NCAA team growth will remain somewhat flat (though more will rise to D1). The bottom half of D3 teams are scraping for players every winter. Keep an eye on their social media in January-February. Can't imagine this happens in many sports.

Parents are sick of having their hardworking kids have to play against holdbacks. Its boring. We know the outcome. Soccer on the other hand continues to grow. Its a fair game.

The tennis player hates lacrosse.

Seems to be weird to hang out and post here but it’s ok. Sorry your son was cut.

I hadn't looked at tennis but you are right. Youth tennis participation numbers are up over the same period and really jumped since 2019. I can only attribute that to the assinine decisions made by team sports during this period. Baseball, football, soccer and hockey are way down and basketball had some growth.

Cant compete with kids his own age. Hit the books/wall.

Where is VLC, Next Level playing at this Fall?

At the risk of injecting dispassionate logic and evidence into this Algonquin Roundtable of youth lacrosse banter, the comment re youth sports participation rates made me do something foolish, like check out some of the relevant data and reporting. It's kinda grim. I don't know the answers to the problem, but I have to assume that "it's all holdbacks" or "their kid got cut, f 'em" is good for the growth of a youth sport I'm guessing everyone commenting here likes enough to come here in the first place. I guess part of the answer is some sort of regulation - not EU-level, but something, anything, that broadens access beyond current numbers, That's unfortunate b/c I'd bet real money that won't happen given the private equity money involved.

https://www.aspenprojectplay.org/state-of-play-2021/introduction

As I chirped earlier, it's (I think) a unique situation where there is value (to the few) to keep the sport elite and not being played in PE classes in public schools K-5 nationwide. What if the Poors learn to play! Soccer and the martial arts clearly decided on going the opposite direction.....train everybody and FIND the elite talent for further development.

I tend to agree but according to that report, soccer’s down too, as are nearly all team sports. Individual sports appear to be picking up numbers. All this data would now be throughly skewed by CoVID of course, but those team sport declines predate 2020. If you believe (like I do) that team sports are great for child development and are overall a definite societal good, those are bad trends that point to the fact that something’s wrong with the current system(s) and not getting better.

Martial arts? Tennis? What is happening here? I actually miss the Preds troll posting.

Sweet sixteen looks to have a nice lineup of teams this weekend.

There’s one guy(s) whose been trolling talking to himself for several pages trying to push an agenda that Lacrosse is bad off because of holdbacks. This distraction about random sports is just an extension that on age sports are doing better than lacrosse.

Their ultimate plan is to somehow destabilize The NLF which founding organizations are driven by holdbacks.

That’s fine and would probably gain some traction of it wasn’t so mind numbing-ly irritating.

It’s really just the people who run the World Series trying to strengthen their product - IE make more money.

The Circuit tournament and the age poll USClub Lax are all roped in.

It’s fine. We get it.

There’s one guy(s) whose been trolling talking to himself for several pages trying to push an agenda that Lacrosse is bad off because of holdbacks. This distraction about random sports is just an extension that on age sports are doing better than lacrosse.

Their ultimate plan is to somehow destabilize The NLF which founding organizations are driven by holdbacks.

That’s fine and would probably gain some traction of it wasn’t so mind numbing-ly irritating.

It’s really just the people who run the World Series trying to strengthen their product - IE make more money.

The Circuit tournament and the age poll USClub Lax are all roped in.

It’s fine. We get it.[/quote]

So you think it's just some random troll or some greedy corporate interests upset about holdbacks?

I suppose the 5000+ responses to the USCL survey overwhelmingly in favor of going to an age based model were all Russian bots? Along with the countless posts on this forum complaining about holdbacks over the past several years?

You're trying to protect the status quo by claiming it's just a handful of folks/greedy organizations that are upset about holdbacks.

It's fine. We get it.

This is awesome. Destabilization. LOL. Clueless.

Where did you see the schedule?

A lot of talk about holdbacks so I reached out to USA Lacrosse to see what their take was. My take on the response (below) is that they agree with the opponents of holdbacks but have no power to actually do anything about it. In other words this is an issue with the Clubs and leagues and the funny thing about that is to play club we are required to join USA Lacrosse.

Thanks for reaching out to USA Lacrosse. USAL has best practices for play segmentation based on age not grade, we ask our member leagues and sanctioned tournaments to abide by these guidelines developed in concert with our Sports Science and Safety Committee. However we do not govern all events or tournaments in the country. Unlike other sports like soccer and hockey, membership is not required to play.

We continue to work on this issue and educating tournament and club operators on safety standards around age segmentation for safety reasons.

So you think it's just some random troll or some greedy corporate interests upset about holdbacks?

I suppose the 5000+ responses to the USCL survey overwhelmingly in favor of going to an age based model were all Russian bots? Along with the countless posts on this forum complaining about holdbacks over the past several years?

You're trying to protect the status quo by claiming it's just a handful of folks/greedy organizations that are upset about holdbacks.

It's fine. We get it.[/quote]


I'm neither of you guys, but wanted to weigh in with some caution....that USCL survey was shared/amplified/reposted by (among others) a long list of coaches who have happily cut on-age kids for holdbacks. They "support on age ball" on the surface level but until forced otherwise, they are cutting an on age kid for a holdback, 10 times out of 10 if the holdback is 4" taller and 10lb heavier. It's not at all about "developing players." It's about "capturing today's most dominant talent and hope nobody takes it personally."

Re lax in every PE program for elementary schools and ppl wanting to keep lacrosse elitist: They've had flag football in PE literally forever and the #of kids playing tackle football has gone down steadily for decades. How they going to do this? Play with a nerf ball and sticks you pick up at your local Safeway?

Re holdbacks. I don't care if it's age or grade based. Been thru this with 3 kids and it doesn't matter once the kids hit HS...particularly the last 2 years. Thankfully I'm here re my youngest. The better athletes tend to climb to the top. I'm not sure why everyone is bashing NLF....their tournies are pretty good and garner a ton of college attention. Are they the be-all-end-all? No, but there's no doubt the clubs that are members of it usually have pretty solid programs.

Of course clubs have a say in what happens during the holdback argument, but they aren't the most powerful force. Think about all the prep schools that target post-graduates....and the kids they attract and the college coaches that FLOCK to them (and a good bit of them went to these types of schools). Culver, Deerfield, Taft, Salisbury, etc....etc...etc. They are not going to change their behavior because of youth club lacrosse and parents complaining. Not ever. Add to it that colleges don't care how old the kids are.......the argument is settled. Train your kid up if it's a game they want to continue playing....or realize, more likely than not, their lax careers end after HS.

No one cares about holdbacks in HS. Its the youth holdbacks that gross everyone out.

The only real way holdbacks go away is if there is ever some money to be made professionally playing lacrosse.

As it stands now college is still the pinnacle so kids want to drag it out as long as possible lol.

Exactly. This is why all the on age kids should and are just going start playing down a year. You can literally say anything you want because nobody cares as long as its not being done during a recruiting season.

You could have fooled me that nobody cares about holdbacks in HS. Go look at the threads.....same types of complaints. It's got just as much to do with private vs. public schools. If you can afford it, and lacrosse is all you care about, you holdback. However, the vast majority of kids I know who were "reclassed" did so very early.....K and 1st grade. They weren't even playing lacrosse at that point. It was because the child needed more time to develop.

Maybe it's not fair, but that's how it is. Holding a kid back solely for a sport seems nuts to me, but I can't begrudge someone who wants to help their kid perform better in school.

Okay.....onto more interesting chatter: schedules, coaches going nuts, kids moving clubs....etc. etc

Nice lineup but won't be strong. Majority of solid kids that would normally play are playing fall sports or have a club tournament that weekend.

This is nonsense. USA Lacrosse provides the insurance. If USAL said that any tourneys/clubs/families playing outside of the age guidelines create a dangerous environment and therefore waive their insurance coverage, things would change.

NLF is the target because they are one of the most powerful orgs in youth lacrosse. 3Step is also up there. These orgs control the top programs and many of the top tourneys. If they decided to go age based, others will follow because they want to play in these big tourneys. If NLF/3Step continues to support grade based clubs/tourneys, it makes it hard for other clubs to take a stand and go age-based. These principled clubs would be non-competitive on a national level - the talent would then rush to the NLF and the principled club would go under.

Right now NLF and 3step are getting an extra year of tuition with kids holding back which is a big financial incentive for them to keep things the way they are.

Except middle school kids don’t get recruited so there is no recruiting season.


High school kids do. If you are complaining about old backs in high school your kids isn’t going to make it anyway.

But yes please go ahead and play your kid down. You’ll get caught. Your team will lose and it’ll give this forum more to talk about. Win win win.

I hear very little about anyone complaining about holdback is not HS. Holdbacks are irrelevant in HS.
The issue is and always will be with youth lacrosse.
You know why. We all know why. Stop trying to get around it and admit its wrong.

The funny part is that it will be the holdback parents that complain about them and try to get them in trouble for doing it.
LOL. You can't make this stuff up.

World Series people trying to destabilize NLF to make money? As opposed to the clubs that started this whole mess … to make money?


The problem with club lacrosse is it’s run by mouth breathers who don’t care about growing the game, but have no other marketable skills after they graduated from Hobart and Umass with diplomas in Phys Ed. They gotta make a
living somehow. And they know they can do it on the backs of the wannabe quarter zip parents.

“Those who can’t, teach.”

“Those who lax, run clubs.”

All tournaments don’t use us lacrosse insurance poindexter…

Many clubs don't use USL insurance. The premiums and coverage provide no advantage to those orgs. This is one of the main reasons class based clubs don't care. USL has no authority over them whatsoever.

And here you are. Spending thousands of dollars a year to pay for your son to ride the bench. The mouth breathers are thankful for your monetary contributions.

LOL. This is great.
I don't know why everyone's getting so mad at the holdbacks. Is it an advantage? Night and day. Is anyone going to do anything about it.? No. Is it fair? Absolutely not. But so what? If you don't like it your kid can quit - tell him to try again when he's in HS.

It’s truly amazing how resourceful these club directors have become. I’ve received numerous texts and an email inquiring about my son’s availability for the Circuit from three different groups. No idea how they get my contact information.

Any movement between the VLC, Next Level, Madlax kids? Both still have two teams?

Madlax lost 2 kids to BLC, picked one up from BLC and one from VLC. Not sure about NL.

LOL. This is great.
I don't know why everyone's getting so mad at the holdbacks. Is it an advantage? Night and day. Is anyone going to do anything about it.? No. Is it fair? Absolutely not. But so what? If you don't like it your kid can quit - tell him to try again when he's in HS.[/quote]


And there you have it…..The new slogan for growing the sport of Lacrosse. What a BadPerson.

NL picked up one BLC kid. Large attackman.