BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2024-11th Grade Fall 2022/Summer 2023

The question was asked “how do you know?” . IL posts HS and hometown commits for some schools 90% of the players attend very expensive private schools….I think that is big hint. Not sure what you mean about being racist, by last name I mean recognizable like dad’s a billionaire or famous sports figure. No need to bring my daughter into it, but don’t you worry, she just fine.

You make zero sense and your point is pointless. My daughter committed to a very highly ranked school and her last name had nothing to do with it. Her athleticism and grades did. Not her last name.

Go back and learn how to read. The discussion was about economic diversity. Many schools are very low in that area. Let me spell it out. The majority of commits from some schools attend expensive prep schools where kids get special academic treatment and in many cases are held back, and or live in extremely wealthy areas, i.e. Greenwich. There are also some commits that are instantly recognized due to having the last name of their extremely successful parent. It is a product of lacrosse being a rich kid sport for the most part. Kudos to the girls that are getting into these schools without the extra help. And nobody cares about your daughter (except you of course!)

Will the excuses ever end? It starts in elementary school, continues through high school and even goes on during the recruiting process.

College coaches, especially at the most competitive college programs offer spots to players that they believe can help their program compete. The majority of programs bring in 7-9 players per year (average per year), coaches do not hand out spots because the family has a lot of money or because the father was a recognizable professional athlete. The rubber meets the road during the recruiting process and all of the parents and players will know exactly where the player stands based on the caliber of program that offers a spot.

Facts, not excuses. Please explain the disproportionate amount of wealthy prep school kids on college rosters at certain schools. Why is that? Are rich kids better at lacrosse, have more opportunities?

I think for a few reasons. The wealthy have money to pay for the best personal training and all the extra resources you need to build an athlete. That extra money pays for all of the showcases and school camps your daughter wants to go to and the more she goes to, the more she is seen by coaches. You also are likely to move to a wealthy town where the youth team runs all year long and starts in kindergarten and pays for top notch coaching. Also, prep school is filled with kids who generally take their grades seriously. Grades are important too.

Facts? No, not really.

Maybe it is because Lacrosse / Girls Lacrosse is more prevalent in affluent areas so naturally there will be a high percentage of athletes from well off families on college rosters at the more prestigious schools/universities. As the original post points out, "coaches do not hand out spots because the family has a lot of money or because the father was a recognizable professional athlete."

Coaches want the best athletes/players that they can get, they do not care if the player comes from an affluent family or not. How long do you think Maryland, North Carolina, Boston College, Northwestern, Syracuse, Princeton, Florida, Virginia, Penn, Duke, Loyola, James Madison, Notre Dame, Stanford, USC etc... would be competitive if they were prioritizing wealthy athletes over the best athletes?

Duke, Princeton, Stanford, Penn, Northwestern etc... could easily fill their rosters with "Full Pay" kids and have the players family donate $$$ to the university and the women's lacrosse program as well but they would not remain competitive for very long.

If a college coach does not offer a player a spot it is not because of the families financial situation. Coaches offer spots to players they want.

Of course college coaches offer spots to former professional athletes kids. BC & ND. have them on teams now. They have not been stars on the teams so far, but maybe in next couple of years.

One reason may be because most of the prep school kids are probably excellent students as they are learning in classrooms of 10. They have lots of learning resources being giving to them. They most likely have the academic criteria for those “certain schools” (Ivy). Those schools have a hard time finding lacrosse kids that meet their academic requirements. (Also, ones who can afford to go there)

Many very good lacrosse kids who can’t make the academic requirements have to be denied. I’m sure the coaches would love to have them as they want to win. They just can’t get them through because of the academics. Maybe 1 or 2 they can “help” get through. Would probably have to be a very top recruit.

Other obvious reasons are deep pockets and connections.

Maybe they work harder ? Maybe they are better ? Maybe you are wrong ? You sound very bitter

Maybe those kids are blessed with natural athleticism, worked extremely hard on their lacrosse skill/ability/IQ, put in the time in the weight room and made academics a priority as well.

Just looked quickly at last years final Top 20 Rankings and it looks like approximately 40% of the players on the rosters graduated from Private Schools including the so called "wealthy prep schools". Below is the breakdown (forgive me if i'm off by a little, looked quickly):

First number is Roster count second number is Private School kids

1 - North Carolina - 40 - 16
2 - Boston College - 30 - 14
3 - Maryland - 30 - 14
4 - Northwestern 36 - 14
5 - Stony Brook (N/A roster / recruiting not in line with other power programs)
6 - Syracuse 35 - 13
7 - Loyola 33 - 13
8 - Florida 42 - 12
9 - Princeton 33 - 15
10 - Denver 36 - 15

Average roster size is 35, average number of private school kids 14.

What is disproportionate about those numbers?

The numbers are disproportionate because only 10-12% of children in the U.S. attend private schools.

The numbers are disproportionate because only 10-12 percent of children in the US attend private schools.

Yes, exactly. And I would put kids from towns like Manhasset, Greenwich, CSH, etc. in that wealthy group as well. Median home price in millions, so average income families rarely live there. Are you really trying to say that there are not a disproportionate number of wealthy kids that play lacrosse? Please stop!

What I find so hard about this recruiting process is that we expect 16 year old girls to navigate it one on one with coaches. They are minors, yet we expect them to talk to coaches solely as if they can understand everything these adults are telling them. I think the NCAA needs to require a parent or guardian be in every conversation these girls have with coaches. Not that the parents/guardians should be overly involved in the conversations but should be there as a support to their child. To make sure the athlete understands what the coaches are telling them. Many kids only understand black and white conversations and don’t get the subtle language when a coach is telling them something that requires reading between the lines.

Of course grades are important. Much easier to achieve high grades at prep school than at a good public. Some kids are told they need to go to a year of prep school if they want to attend an elite college. Magically their grades improve! Rich kids have a huge advantage all around!

Duke too. Nauseating how IL builds them up and then they do nothing on the field. How many articles have I read over the past several years and am still waiting to see what all the hype was about

The only time your daughter would have to deal solely with the coach is on a phone call; you can certainly listen if you want. Most calls my daughter did were facetime so I could hear the conversation in the other room. When your daughter visits, the parent or parents are in the meeting with the head coach when the offers get extended. If your daughter went on a visit but did not get an offer at that time and the coach may want to see her play more this fall or is waiting to see if other offers get accepted, your daughter may get that offer in a phone conversation at a later date, It is 100% okay for you to be on that call, or have your daughter arrange a follow-up call with parents involved to clarify what was discussed when an offer in extended, nothing wrong with that.

This conversation is very fool. So if my child, who goes to a non-rich public HS, who has very good but not brainiac grades, and we make good but not great salaries (blue collar $ but probably nothing needs based here)…do I even bother to have her attempt to play lax in college? Lmao? Cause according to you experts she doesn’t sound like she has a chance! I’m not sure why I stop by to read. Every few pages I find something worthy.

I think the comments above were in response to the posts re why do a lot of prep school kids get recruited, and the nefarious theory that coaches like rich families. The responses were theories why kids from prep schools were actually recruited. You shouldn’t take that as an inference that a public HS kid with modest family income can’t get recruited. Stay focused on your daughter and her needs and don’t read into all of this discussion. Kids from all over get recruited.

I believe the original post was saying why certain schools (Ivys) end up recruiting so many prep schools kids ?
Kind of obvious, Academics and Dollars.

Of course “regular” kids can and do get recruited! More so than the prep school kids. Lacrosse is actually great to have her play, as it can be the reason lots of doors open to colleges that wouldn’t be so easy to get into without Lacrosse. Perhaps, even the Ivys! Schools with 5% acceptance rates.

Lacrosse is s door opener and even more so for us regular people. Gives our kids more opportunity.

I am one of the original posters. In no way was I saying great lacrosse players from average income families can’t get recruited. My daughter is one of them. We did have to sacrifice a lot to make sure she was on a top club and took part in premier events. In fact, many of the best players on their respective college teams are often the average income girls. All-Americans. The comments came from my observations throughout the recruiting process. On the visits we noticed that most girls were either from very wealthy neighborhoods, or prep schools. I don’t think this true as much for other sports like Football and Basketball, but maybe I’m wrong. Anyhow, I think It is harder for average income lacrosse players to be recruited for a variety of reasons, and you see virtually no low income players. US Lacrosse even created a team of low income girls to help grow the sport Nation United , not sure how effective that will be. Would be great to see lacrosse become more diverse socioeconomically.

The recruiting process is a tough dose of reality. Most parents (myself included) feel their daughters should get more attention. There are "preferred clubs" college coaches may go to and it's frustrating. Coaches only have so many hours in the day and they are always looking for the best players they can get. Coaches that watch games and not all star lists are generally rewarded. All of college sporting recruiting is "unfair", it's not just lacrosse. Try looking at high school football and basketball, powerhouse high schools dominate recruiting. It's the entire recruiting landscape across all sports. Lacrosse offers the girls amazing opportunities, but it's not easy. Good luck to all!

Wow, the bitterness, resentment and excuses displayed by some is troubling. Hopefully those of you who have a victim mentality, negative attitude and delusional view of how the recruiting process works do not pass these traits and attitudes on to your kids. Such views and attitudes make it very difficult to grow, develop and or succeed at anything.

Not Duke, but how about the hype for a 24 that had two college athlete parents, one playing in the NFL and another that maybe was on a talk show? She landed at a decent school, but it wasn't Top 20. It's really annoying to hear IL try to hype some of these kids and honestly? I think a lot of it is lazy journalism and just some good old bias since her dad was an NFL QB and her mom played a college sport. It's the, "Oh, she must be good since her parents were good" thinking.

I'm planning on a deeper dive with the IL Top Recruits from 2022 - 2024 to see how those players ultimately pan out. How many of them are or were busts? This will be a long term project, but I think it's important, as we should balance out some of the most recent Top 10 picks, especially when someone isn't even the top player on their on Club or HS team...

Just wealthy parents attempting to keep the competition levels low.

Honestly, all of this started because someone said that kids from the "B" teams of YJ and MD were being recruited due to "diversity" over more deserving athletes. Just go to M&D to see who the poster is referring to.

The person changed it to "economic diversity", which made no sense in the context of the posters original statement. I asked how did one ascertain "economic diversity" from a photo of a recruit and the thread went down this rabbit hole.

What I was trying to point out was the poster who asserted that "B" team athletes were being recruited and taking spots from more deserving athletes, was making the same argument that Black people hear when folks talk about Black students taking spots from more deserving students to get into a university. In essence, it is a terrible argument. Coaches take people that they believe will enhance their teams and who they believe they can develop. Period. Work with your athlete to find her a home. Good luck.

You are so wrong. My daughter was recruited to one of the most sought after programs in the country as an average income kid. We are very blessed. These are my observations. I think it is unfair. Honestly, nothing will probably change. just another example of the haves vs. the have nots. As for your daughter, good luck to her, hopefully she get a life changing opportunity like mine did! My daughter did have brainiac grudges tho.

If you don't think, in the world we live in, recruiting diversity isn't important, you have your head in the sand! (This is not meant to be negative)

Hey there’s two on BC with the same NFL / Talk show pedigree.

🤣

Go ahead, waste your time. What a ridiculous project when you could be using that time to help your daughter in the recruiting process or do something productive. Whether IL makes the picks or you make the picks, not every pick is going to pan out. No one is going to bat a thousand.

You can already do this. Go to their site and look at the recruiting rankings for the past 10 years and look at what those players did in college. You have college data to compare. I've done this and i can tell you they are right more often than they are wrong. Will there be misses? yes. This is to be expected. Doesn't mean there's bias and the rankings [Censored]. I'll never understand parents who cry about recruiting rankings. You're not a scout or college coach and i doubt you know more lacrosse than they do.

Exhibit 1: 2017 IL rankings. all these were 5 star recruits. Lacrosse talent is not hard to spot. best players separate themselves in high school pretty easily. You can go through and look at rankings for different years. the pattern is the same. I'm sorry that your daughter wasn't ranked and you hold a grudge.

1.Andie Aldave
2.Jamie Ortega
3.Allison Mastroianni
4.Kyla Sears
5.Shelby Harrison
6.Catie May
7.Samantha Swart
8.Chloe Jones
9.Hannah Cermack
10. Hannah Van Middelem
11.Ali Baiocco
12.Riley Hertford
13. Kelsey Huff
14.Charlotte North
15.Scottie Rose Growney
16. Grace griffin

Nation United is not a team of “low income girls”. There are a lot of Black girls, a few White girls, and a few Asian girls. There is nothing in Nation United’s Instagram or Twitter or anything else that talks about “low income”. This comment is just like the “economic diversity“ comment. You cannot ascertain female lacrosse players’ economic status from photos. I am trying not to make assumptions why you stated Nation United is a “low income” team.

Now, should US Lacrosse seek to aggressively expand lacrosse beyond its current base? Yes. Should that include lots of real outreach to Black and Latino communities?Yes. Should that include substantial steps to making the sport less expensive? Yes. Should that include substantial steps to weaken the current club model and reform recruiting? Yes

By the way, Nation United Womens Lacrosse is pretty much an All-Star team. They do not practice and have no plays. They meet up a couple times a year and play tournaments, talk, and try to create a Sisterhood in a sport where a lot of Black and Latina players usually play on teams with only white players. The team is about creating Sisterhood and connection. If you get a chance to see them play together, they play some of the fastest, hard nosed lacrosse you will see in the girls game. A well oiled YJ 25 team ran into them in Lake Placid and got all they could handle.

If you are saying the recruited athletes that were called B teamers are somehow undeserving of their spots, then I think you have your head in the sand. You are diminishing their skill and athleticism sand asserting that someone who did not receive the spot is better. Obviously, the coach who is recruiting disagrees.

There are some great players on that list, and a few that did nothing in college. Strange list because there are some way better recruits that you left off, and put on some questionable ones.

You will never convince the delusional parents. Many times on BOTC people have posted how the IL Ranked Players (top 30 - 40 players) did during their college career and the whiners refuse to acknowledge it. Certain parents believe that their daughter is a top tier player even when no top tier programs make offers.

Who is making offers? What caliber of programs are making offers? Answer the questions and you will know what caliber of player the student athlete is.

Is it Maryland or Marist? Boston College or Boston University? Carolina or Cornell? Syracuse or Siena? Northwestern or New Hampshire? Florida or Fairfield?

Not too many high end players slip through the cracks. The best college programs identify, recruit and make offers to the best HS players. That is what makes them the best, they get the best players.

Good grief, it is unbelievable how the ability to follow along and comprehend is simply lost on some.

Forget the Inside Lacrosse Rankings.... Just look at the schools / college coaches that obviously had them ranked very high.

"" Exhibit 1: 2017 IL rankings. all these were 5 star recruits. Lacrosse talent is not hard to spot. best players separate themselves in high school pretty easily. You can go through and look at rankings for different years. the pattern is the same. I'm sorry that your daughter wasn't ranked and you hold a grudge.

1.Andie Aldave - Notre Dame 5th yr at North Carolina.
2.Jamie Ortega - North Carolina.
3.Allison Mastroianni - North Carolina.
4.Kyla Sears - Princeton.
5.Shelby Harrison - Hopkins.
6.Catie May - Maryland.
7.Samantha Swart - Syracuse
8.Chloe Jones - Virginia.
9.Hannah Cermack - Boston College transfer to Lehigh.
10. Hannah Van Middelem - Syracuse.
11.Ali Baiocco - Stanford.
12.Riley Hertford - USC.
13. Kelsey Huff - USC.
14.Charlotte North - Duke transfer Boston College.
15.Scottie Rose Growney - North Carolina
16. Grace griffin - Maryland.