BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2028-6th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022

USCL rankings are beyond useless especially this time of year. I would wait until mid June - Mid July to give it any credibility (if any at all)

Historically you are right. But check out the teams participating in Naptown this year. For this age, this will be the toughest field they all face this season.

It’s probably an angry Maryland dad, pay no mind to him.

Here are some thoughts, agree disagree whatever you want.

Both areas have plenty of talent however there are fantastic players and teams from coast to coast.

The tristate area is really just starting, teams in CT are barley practicing.

While Maryland has their HOCO league which is excellent LI and mainly the tri-state area tend to start their club season later in order for the boys to play town lacrosse. Now, town lacrosse has its faults and the competition for the most part isn’t great - The difference is especially on LI, is most kids attend public schools not private, so there is an emphasis on town.

Now as per the club teams, I think Maryland has a deeper pool of better teams and I don’t think anyone from LI can argue that.
However, this isn’t an attempt to start a holdback war but let’s call a spade a spade. My guess is on average most LI 2028 teams have somewhere around 5 players with birthdays in Q4 of 2009 with the rest being 2010’s (that’s what my son’s town and club team has) If you don’t think age is a factor right now in 6th grade your in denial. Especially after reading some post in the Maryland forum where you have a 2008 and several former 2027’s that are now 2028’s.

Now as we enter June the club season really gets going (and we can move past the HOCO league chatter) we will soon find out who’s legit and who isn’t.

So all the LI teams are mediocre to terrible? What teams are good? Please educate us[/quote

LI Express is good. Legacy is decent.

That’s the list.

Because the guy that does the rankings works for 91

Happy to. None. Legacy and Rebels and LI Express have all played a lot off the island and they can’t even compete with Hawks, Madlax, Next Level from MD. Team 91 is 1-2 against those 3 Maryland teams.

I’m sure 91 is good. But don’t tell us that LI teams at the 2028 are good, they’re simply not. At all.

Top teams nationally:

Hawks
Madlax
NL
WCStarz
91
True National
Express North
3D NE

Hawks are team to beat.

Play one on age tournament and let’s see, just one!

It’s an algorithm picks up wins and losses plain a simple. At one point JM3 was the number one team in the nation because they won the only tournament that was around. Same w true Illinois after they won club nationals.

91 probably a decent team, but they’re 1-2 against the big dogs from MD. The rest of the LI teams have gotten smoked on a consistent basis by Hawks, Madlax, and Next Level.

What could the algorithm possibly calculate to have 91 FAR AND AWAY at #1?

Serious question.

Exactly.

And the Rebels prove they can beat these teams on any given day

Hawks
Madlax
NL
WCStarz
True National
3D NE

Let's see which of these teams are competitive next year for the U13 World Series.
Hawks didn't even qualify this year.

I posted early it’s useless especially this time of year. Mid June - mid July is where is gets some credibility (if any at all) when teams start to venture out of their local areas.

It picks up wins and loses nothing more nothing less - I highly doubt it has a true RPI and or SOS component to it.

Teams like JM3 (can you even call them a team) true Illinois, express N, hawks 91 all have held the top spot at one point or another.

Personally, I think the winner of the HOCO deserves it over any team. But the catch to there is each of those teams have suffered a minimum of one loss which impacts the flawed rankings.

To say that 91 hold it far and away is just wrong.

Fake news about the hawks. They didn’t even enter a team. Neither did Madlax, next level, Crabs and pretty much every other team from the Maryland area. I’ll give you one guess why …….

Bingo
Take a look at the winners of the World Series for the last several years. Look it up. The fact is it’s one Long Island team after another. And the reason is because it is a true age based tournament.
Yes the 2028 teams from Maryland are overall better than the Long Island teams. But they are not the same age. So after you’re done looking up the winners from years past, do a google search on the development of muscle mass, strength, and speed through the different stages of puberty. Plenty of articles out there. It’s a remarkable increase with each stage of development.

For those still struggling to comprehend I’ll break it down for you.

The boys on Long Island 2028 teams tend to be slightly younger than the boys in Maryland. It’s a fact.

That slight age difference is why it’s tough for a 2028 team on Long Island to beat a 2028 team from Maryland. It’s a fact.

The one tournament that is truly age based is the World Series. The results show that Long Island teams tend to do quite well. It’s a fact.

Correct

Thanks and I know I am correct. And I’m going to add to what I said before. When you come on here claiming how the teams here can’t compete with the likes of the hawks, what is your response to my factual evidence as to why? I detest being a devils advocate, but I feel it is necessary here. There will be no response because I am right. You know it and therefore can’t respond. I’m not looking for an apology. And I’m not looking for you to retract your statements. I am looking for you to keep these things in mind when talking tournament wins and rankings.

It is officially travel season but I need to make one last PAL comment. Yesterday my son played against a team where the coach made such a scene he embarassed himself, the program and his family. These coaches should not be allowed to coach and ruin young minds. I am sure kids will quit lacrosse because of how this parent/coach acted yesterday. He mentally abused his team and everyone in the stands was shocked. PAL should have a rep at every game so this kind of nonesense does not happen. He should be reported but PAL is over so nothing will happen to him. I hope he reads this and realizes what a donk he acted like yesterday.

The Maryland crowd will never concede. They will say your kids soft, you can’t hang, it’s in the rules, good luck making varsity or playing D1.

Come on you can’t make a passive aggressive post like this and give zero details…at least give some hints. Ruining my morning.

which game?

Why???

It should be age based. But it won’t change.

Because a majority of their rosters are born before 9/1/09 which would make them ineligible.

Why is Maryland posting all of this? Or is it a disgruntled parent pretending to be a Maryland parent?

Ok that’s what I thought you meant

Until the recommendations are enforced as rules, this will
Until the US Lacrosse recommendations change to actual rules, parents will continue to play their kids on teams by graduation date not birth year. It is not a rule as of now, so why does everyone waste so much time on this? Truth of it is size does matter and many teams have holdbacks which make them larger and stronger at the 2028 "grade" bracket. This should definitely be taken into consideration when saying a team is terrible but again, no rule on it means the people posting that have a 13+year old 6th grader really don't care either way. At least your kids gets the academic edge too right?

Late but yes. There is no statistical unbiased algorithm that would put 91 #1 based on the games they have played and teams beaten.

A 99.9?????

Clearly 91 rigs this mockery.

Guys— Team 91 literally has not beaten a single team in the top 10. Pretty sure they haven’t beaten a single team in the top 20 of the rankings— maybe LI Legacy, who is 20th in the rankings? It’s just absurd. I’m sure they’re a good team. We will find out in a month if they’re playing Naptown, NAL, PrimeTime, NLF.

Wait didn't legacy beat both True National teams.

This statement is just patently false

Talking about Team 91– they may have beaten Legacy, who is 20th (and the door mat for amd teams). O OSU else in the Top 20, but sure, they’re #1

Team 91 is definitely #1 on Long Island. After this summer we will see the true rankings. Be patient and lets have this conversation at the beginning of August when the tournaments are completed and we see what kids jump to new teams.

You must have got beaten up as a kid.

The difference with 91 and everyone else is they are willing to make cuts. Other teams all seem to hang onto some kids that don’t belong.

The USCL rankings are so fake and biased towards certain teams it’s not even funny.

Based on who 91 has played they shouldn’t even be in the top 20.

Now I think they are certainly one of the best - but based on results THIS SEASON - they’ve proved nothing and don’t deserve it at all right now.

Agree with the above statement. It'll sort itself out when teams play and there will be a much better picture a month from now-for what it's worth. I agree 91 is the best on LI and I don't think that'll change but I expect the MD teams to be a step ahead given their physical superiority and maturity at this point. (I won't belabor this "phenomena"). That is not data driven, but anecdotal as I think most familiar with the sport understand why... (and also why LI has dominated the age based tournaments)

What is the cutoff for grades up in NY? Is it calendar, 12/31? In MD/VA, it’s 9/1. So, the 2028 teams down here have a lot of kids getting ready to turn 13 after 9/1. And, yes, some kids who are late birthdays, most of them May -August, who were already held back at Kindergarten. I’m a parent on one of the top teams (son is March 2010 Birthday) and I’d say 25% of our kids turn 13 between May and Sept 1st— technically making them holdbacks. But none of them were reclassed after kindergarten (I’m implying it was not done for sports reasons when they were 5 years old).

Anyway, just anectodal and maybe not indicative of all the teams— but the assumption that these teams down here are all loaded with holdbacks is just false. You’ll see it on the field, our kids are no bigger than the kids from upper Northeast.

LI parents love to complain about holdbacks meanwhile their teams actively promote held back kids. The Duke Freshman should be graduating, and the #1 HS recruit in the country should also be finishing his frosh year in College. They actually changed the WSYL rules so he could play another year (cutoff moved back to May that year, not Sept.). How many LI Coaches have held their kids back? If you’re not a holdback at some clubs, good luck getting on the field.