BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2021-2022 Women's DI-III College Lacrosse Season

Don’t take the bait. Obvious troll….just not sure what ur hoping to achieve with this ?

ND and Stanford didn’t disappoint as usual. At least 4 more L for ND

Well I guess confused as she is the best player in the country I would think.

Wow, such an insightful and informative post, thanks for taking the time to add to the conversation. Now slither back under your rock.

Hard to compare ACC teams to Stony Brook. ACC schedules are very difficult while Stony Brook plays a very soft schedule each year.

Stony Brook has used this to their advantage and it has obviously benefited them. Stony Brook pads their record every year which gets them ranked exceedingly high but their high ranking has always been based upon hype and not performance. It is what it is and it is not the fault of SBU that their conference is not super competitive but at the end of the day it has help them in the rankings but possibly left them unprepared for the NCAA Tournament.

Stanford looked pretty good, very competitive on the road against Syracuse. As for ND we have no Idea how good Michigan is so can't really tell much. Long season but ND was probably ranked too high to begin the season.

So after all the talk I had to watch. A closer game than I thought since i just saw final score and read the articles. 10-6 after three. Both goalies solid. What was glaring to me is refs. Can’t have a junior ref on a game this level. Struggled in basic rules.

Good luck to both teams as they move forward. Both team played hard.

You cancel culture CN sycophants are ridiculous. Someone dares to think CN is not the best player in the country and you go all fan girl . Sorry I happen to think the best player in the country is a defender. You all come on here with your defense wins championships but if someone thinks that a defender is the best player in the game it can't be because she does not run with her head down to goal. Is CN the best dodger in the NCAA , yes. Is she very good at the draw yes, as those things are very important it makes her one of the top players in the country. Does she get her team involved ,not really, good at the ride ,not really. I have watched Trenchard from UNC get the better of just about every teams best offensive player without employing a faceguard or them sending an early slide . If you think BC beat UNC last year because of CN you are just wrong it was in spite of her which tells you she is surrounded by a very good team . If you think her offensive teammates enjoy watching her dodge with her head down and not see her open teammates you would be wrong again even if she puts the ball in the back of the net.

What talk? What game are you talking about?

That said Stanford was missing their best player but did not look as competitive on Sunday.

Actually, it is fairly easy to compare. You are giving Duke a pass simply because they are in the ACC and discounting Stony Brook because they are not. Here is a comparison of of their schedules as it relates to current top 25 teams (obviously those rankings can change). Their top 25 team schedules are very comparable and I would argue that Stony Brook has a more competitive non-top 25 schedule.

DUKE Top 25- Syracuse, UNC, BC, Virginia, Notre Dame and Penn
Duke Other- Virginia Tech, Louisville, Pitt, Gardner-Webb, William & Mary, High Point, Wofford, East Carolina, Davidson, Liberty

Stony Brook Top 25- Syracuse, Northwestern, Florida, Princeton and Johns Hopkins
Stony Brook Other- Dartmouth, Arizona State, Yale, Brown, Hofstra, Albany, Binghamton, Vermont, UMBC, UMASS-Lowell, New Hampshire, Vermont

From the preseason top 5 poll, only one team got bounced, ND. Stony Brook somehow climbs two spots into the top 5 (#4), without even playing, that's a nice trick. Northwestern gets handled badly by BC and drops a little bit, below SBU, who would also get spanked by BC. Notre Dame was handled fairly easy this weekend, very surprised how uncompetitive they were in that game, but at least suffered the consequence in the poll. Mich boosted their stock up big, but ND may be suspect, ND stock definitely down. UNC not too much trouble with JMU, both teams stock about the same. Cuse struggled against a ranked Stan, but pulled it out at end and then ran away with another, stock even as is Stanford stock. Other than a big drop for ND and a big rise for Mich, the rest of the rankings reasonably steady. Mich jumped up 12 spots in the poll while ND only dropped 7 spots. That basically means seven teams lost poll spots from that one game and 12 teams were leap frogged. That one was a major upset and was the big shake up for this week. It will be interesting to see how both those teams fair the rest of the season. All other teams/games were not very telling, a few ranked teams pounding down some very poor competition, as expected. Teams expected to win, won, teams expected to lose, lost. The only team that looked like natty contenders so far was BC, but that only because they were playing a very competitive team out of the gate and getting it done easily.

Duke and to some degree Notre Dame have had to schedule less competitive programs for their non conference games because they need to make sure that they are at least .500 so they can be considered for the NCAA tournament.
Stony Brook tries to schedule tough non conference games against competitive programs however there is no guarantee that the programs will be Top 10 or even top 20 in a given year. The result is that Stony Brook plays nowhere near as competitive a schedule as the majority of programs that are considered to be the strongest programs. It is not close and as the post that you are responding to states the relatively weak schedule benefits Stony Brook. Over the years if Stony Brook played a similar schedule to what Maryland, UNC, Syracuse, Northwestern, Virginia, Boston College, Penn State, Notre Dame, Princeton, Florida and Duke the perception of Stony Brook would be much different than it is because the record would be nowhere as impressive as it has been and they would never be ranked as high as they have been. Stony Brooks actual performance vs high caliber teams has not been very good but their overall record is usually outstanding. They just do not play many games against top tier teams the way other highly regarded programs do. Lets see how they do this year, they have a hand full of strong programs on the schedule but at this point we have no idea how those teams will perform. Syracuse has a new coach and injury issues, Northwestern is without a top T award contender, Florida lost a lot to graduation, Princeton has not played a real game in 2 years, same goes for Dartmouth who is usually pretty good but not up there with the top teams and although Hopkins is competitive program they are usually in that 17 - 25 range not top 10 range. Hofstra may take a little step back this year, Albany is competitive every now and then, Arizona State is up and coming but I do not see any of those teams beating Stony Brook and I don't think the rest of the teams on their schedule have much of a chance. Just my opinion, I think it will come down to how they do against Syracuse, Northwestern, Florida and Princeton (and we do not know how those teams will be). If those teams are Top 10 I think SBU will need to beat two of them if they are not top 10 they might have to beat more than that, it is just the way it works out because of the CAA's punitive actions.

You are assuming Northwestern will be very competitive.

I agree with you on Stony Brook, nice trick jumping two spots without playing a game but I think the bigger trick was being ranked 6th to begin with. I would really like to know the justification for that, seems to happen every year but they have never really done anything to justify it.

Now apply that same analytical review to Duke's schedule. Dismiss Syracuse like you did above, dismiss Penn like you did to Princeton above. That leaves Duke with UNC, BC, Virginia and ND. Want to dismiss ND based on their performance against Michigan they are down to 3. So based on 3 very difficult games, that means their out of conference schedule should be Gardner-Webb, William & Mary, High Point, Wofford, East Carolina, Davidson and Liberty with Penn already discounted? That schedule is just as bad as Stony Brook's conference schedule. I do not discount your view of Stony Brook's schedule from a historical perspective but giving Duke a pass on theirs this season is off base.

So hard to watch these miss matched contests. It’s actually disgusting watching some of these teams beating lower level teams down 20-3. Can’t wait till the get their’s. What poor sportsmanship is being displayed. Duke has to be joking beating up on non competitive teams like that. I’ll have my popcorn out when you play BC!

Is it poor sportsmanship when other teams do it? Or just Duke?

So true , putting up 25 is gross and even worse when you have pathetic players running up their numbers in these games

Division I Womens’s Lacrosse 2-14-2022

Rank Institution Points (FPV) Last Poll
1 Boston College (1 - 0) 575 (23) 1
2 North Carolina (1 - 0) 552 2
3 Syracuse (2 - 0) 529 3
4 Stony Brook (0 - 0) 460 6
5 Northwestern (0 - 1) 442 4
6 Duke (2 - 0) 439 8
7 Florida (1 - 0) 428 7
8 Maryland (1 - 0) 421 9
9 Loyola (0 - 0) 371 10
10 Virginia (2 - 0) 351 11
11 Michigan (2 - 0) 328 23
12 Notre Dame (1 - 1) 326 5
13 James Madison (0 - 1) 300 12
14 Stanford (1 - 1) 297 13
15 Denver (1 - 0) 294 14
16 Princeton (0 - 0) 212 15
17 Rutgers (1 - 0) 204 17
18 Jacksonville (1 - 0) 195 18
19 Drexel (1 - 0) 167 16
20 Penn (0 - 0) 122 19
21 Johns Hopkins (1 - 0) 110 20
22 Temple (1 - 0) 76 22
23 UConn (0 - 0) 64 21
24 UMass (1 - 0) 57 24
25 Penn State (0 - 0) 33 25
RV UAlbany, Navy, Colorado, USC, Vanderbilt

I realize RPI was a little off last year, but average RPI of SBU’s 6 conf opponents and Duke’s first 6 opponents is almost identical. It’s one thing to schedule teams that you should beat because ACC is a tough conference, and then there is what Duke did. Embarrassed for them, esp considering they have so many seniors and 5th years. I have no allegiance to SBU and agree they are sometimes ranked a higher than they should be, but come on with defending Duke’s OOC schedule which is within their control. I hope none of you who love to point out how a small group of top ranked academic/lax programs including Duke get all the top players are not the same ones defending this schedule.

It depends on how they manage the game. Duke won 22-3 and 25-5. Duke’s top 2 players scored 22 goals in those two games. That is not a typo. That is a total disgrace. Particularly because it is out of conference and they elected to play these games. Duke has 5 more out of conference games against similar competition and then at least 2 or 3 more in conference. As a better example of how to manage a mis-match, Michigan beat Detroit Mercy 23-2 but 15 different girls scores goals and none had more than 2. That is the right way to do it.

Poor sportsmanship for any team. Syracuse mens did it last weekend too. Nobody wants to see that and Puke is notorious for it. Why not just play a competitive schedule. What are they afraid of?

Apparently most teams do it. If the coach pulls the starters early and gets everyone in the game then there is not much more that can be done. Reserve players put in the same amount of work as the Regulars (kids that play in every game) and in most games the Reserves will not see the field. I do not like to see it but you have to let the kids play.

Above is the post that took us down the rabbit hole.... The first response was something to the effect that ND and some other ACC teams as well as some Big 10 teams have had to schedule some less competitive teams for their non conference games (because their conference game are so difficult) so they can be sure to have at least a .500 record in order to ensure eligibility and consideration for the NCAA Tournament.

I really have not seen a post "defending" Duke for their in-game actions, what I have seen is people pointing out why they do not schedule more Top 10 or even Top 20 non conference games.

I am not sure of the exact timeline but for several years Duke was consistently a Top 10 program maybe even a Top 5 program with Final Four appearances. I think there were then a few years with very average records and even a losing record so the powers that be had to lighten the load in order to keep the record respectable.

No love or detest for Duke but I see why they (and others) have done it. As far as running up the score goes, I think most of the stronger programs are guilty of it.

It depends on how they manage the game. Duke won 22-3 and 25-5. Duke’s top 2 players scored 22 goals in those two games. That is not a typo. That is a total disgrace. Particularly because it is out of conference and they elected to play these games. Duke has 5 more out of conference games against similar competition and then at least 2 or 3 more in conference. As a better example of how to manage a mis-match, Michigan beat Detroit Mercy 23-2 but 15 different girls scored goals and none had more than 2. That is the right way to do it.

Dukes next 4 games. William & Mary, High Point , Wofford and East Carolina

Is there a point to your post? It has been established as to why Duke schedules less competitive programs for their non conference games. Not sure why people are harping on Duke when there are a lot of programs that have several games against teams that they will easily beat. Regardless of who they play out of conference, I'm pretty sure that if you look back over the past 5 - 10 years Duke plays one of the toughest schedule of any team. I would bet that very few programs have played more games against Top 10 and Top 20 Teams than Duke has. They have probably played more game Vs Top 5 teams than just about everyone as well.

this post is in response to Post # 36620 the system only takes a certain amount of posts per thread i guess.

That's some leap you make... But i will bite

Don't recall seeing anyone defending Dukes non conference schedule. Last years RPI was way off and trying to compare Stony Brooks schedule to pretty much any top program, well it is not comparable Stony Brook just does not play a very competitive schedule year in and year out. That is not by choice, they can only schedule so many non conference games. I don't really see a lot of posts pointing out how the "top ranked academic programs get all of the top players". Not a lot of talk about Columbia, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Cornell bringing in all of the top lacrosse players. The top lacrosse programs are a different story. The "Top lacrosse programs" absolutely do get the vast majority of the top lacrosse players. That fact is not really debatable, the year in and year out results prove that.

The other Top teams in the ACC all have much tougher schedules then Duke. BC just played Northwestern, UNC has Florida coming up, Syracuse has Stonybrook and UVA is extremely tough. Duke took the easy way out.

"Is there a point to your post? It has been established as to why Duke schedules less competitive programs for their non conference games. Not sure why people are harping on Duke when there are a lot of programs that have several games against teams that they will easily beat. Regardless of who they play out of conference, I'm pretty sure that if you look back over the past 5 - 10 years Duke plays one of the toughest schedule of any team. I would bet that very few programs have played more games against Top 10 and Top 20 Teams than Duke has. They have probably played more game Vs Top 5 teams than just about everyone as well."

Name the other ACC school that schedules as many completely non competitive non conference games. To say they play one of the toughest schedules is laughable as they are forced to, your schedule is on par with the brand new Pitt team which says a lot about Dukes program and coaches.All of the ACC teams ranked above you play a clearly more difficult schedule and only looked at the next behind you , UVA, and they may play the most difficult schedule of any team in the country. It will not happen but when they come to post season accolades they need to look at the level of competition they are putting up these grossly inflated stats.

If Dukes SOS is laughable I would love to hear your thoughts on approximately 100 - 110 other DI Programs.

Those other D1 programs don’t claim to be Duke. Compare Dukes schedule to the other ACC teams in their division and it is laughable.

Look at the ACC vs. Duke from a non-conference top 25 perspective. Also, the other teams generally have another 1-2 teams on their schedule that might crack the top 25 during the season (except for Pitt, Louisville and Virginia Tech). Duke has no one near that class. Their non-conference is clearly the easiest amongst the top 6 teams in the conference and arguably the worst in the conference.

Syracuse- Stanford, Stonybrook, Northwestern, Florida, Temple, Loyola
UNC- James Madison, Florida, Jacksonville, Northwestern
Viginia- Maryland, Princeton, Stanford, James Madison
Notre Dame- Michigan, Northwestern, Jacksonville
BC- Northwestern, Mass, Denver
Virginia Tech- Jacksonville, James Madison
Louisville- Denver
Duke- Penn
Pitt- Penn State

Puke!

You can harp on Non-Conference all you want but over the past several years, 2015 - 2021 (I would have looked at only the past 5 years but 20' & 21' were not normal)
only UNC, Syracuse, Virginia, Maryland and Boston College have played a more competitive schedule than Duke.

That means what? Duke plays a more competitive schedule than 112 DI Teams.

Here are the actual number of game Vs Top 20 teams from 2015 - 2021

92 - North Carolina
70 - Syracuse
67 - Northwestern
66 - Maryland
63 - Virginia
61 - Boston College
53 - Duke

That's reality, Below are the next group...

52 - Penn State
52 - Notre Dame
48 - Princeton
44 - Florida

Below that we have the following

37 - JMU
37 - Loyola
35 - USC
34 - Stony Brook
33 - Penn
29 - Stanford

Get the picture....

Not this year and the way they are managing these blowouts is bush league.

Oh please, give it a rest already. Even this year with some weak non conference opponents Duke’s schedule will be mor competitive than 100 - 110 teams. I just looked at some other teams schedules over the last few years and most of the top teams have their share of blowouts. No fan of Duke but they play a very challenging schedule compared to most teams. Just look at the earlier post, only 6 programs have played a more competitive schedule in recent years. That is fact not opinion.

“Those other D1 programs don’t claim to be Duke.” Maybe because they are not Duke. Why not compare their schedule to All DI Teams?

Like it or not Duke plays one of the toughest schedules in all of Division I women’s lacrosse.

Not sure why that upsets some people.

What makes Duke’ schedule even more impressive is that the majority of their Top 20 opponents were Regular Season Games, Duke did not make the NCAA Tournament in 17’, 18’, 19’ or 20’ ( no tournament in 2920).

I’m sure many other teams didn’t play Top 20 Teams until the NCAA Tournament therefore their schedules prove to be even weaker when compared to Duke’s.

You Duke people are embarrassing yourselves . First off Duke plays an extremely weak non conference schedule , if they want to be considered a top 20 team then they should act like it with the games they get to pick . They allowed the CN nonsense and then complain when she leaves now have a CN wannabe with no talent who will put up big numbers against these completely overmatched teams and promote her , The strange thing is there is no way that any parent justifies putting up 25 other than the ball hog putting up a career best , gross.