BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Holdbacks

Because there is no such thing as open tryouts at these elite clubs. And its good to challenge kids.

I'd argue it's quite advantageous if you cant make an elite roster, to play up in AAA or AA.

The size/athleticism difference in making that MS jump is huge. Just one year is significant.

If 2025 91 didn't have players born before 9/1 then they wouldn't be #1 and you couldn't brag about being on the #1 team.

Yes, I think teams below the elite level are essentially at the same level as rec teams from 10 years ago when there was rec in Maryland. The AAA teams from HoCo are almost indistinguishable from AA and A. Kooper's is a great example. They are 12-21 over the last year+. Hawks, Madlax and Next Level crush AAA teams and won't play them unless they have to but can't beat the truly elite teams like Mad Dog Elite, Nationals or West Coast Starz. Even a really good team in the elite division isn't really elite. I'm not sure any of those teams have beaten one of those all-star traveling teams in the last year.

I"m curious as to why the younger kids don't play for 91. I'm also curious as to what you think the age cut off date should be. Since you are from MD, do you think it should be 9/1 or do you think it should be 1/1 like all the Long Island parents think (unless those teams travel out of state and then they create new rosters with new team names)?

Agree. Good luck making an elite roster. My advice is to save your tryout fee.

This summer my nephew tried out for an elite club. In full disclosure, he is not an elite player, rather a solid AA-AAA kid. But he wanted to see how he stacked up and get some reps against other good kids. Unfortunately he didn't even get that. As a longtime lax coach who had never seen one of these tryouts, it was hilariously bad:

The team was going to carry 22-25 kids. 21 returners attended. How many were they gonna cut? A new assistant came in from (ANOTHER CLUB) and brought 10 of his kids to try out (one his own biological kid). 30 additional kids signed up and walked in off the street.

So you had 60 kids attending and 40 new kids competing for 3, maybe 4 spots. And there was a strong feeling those 3-4 spots were already spoken for by the new assistant coach.

Then the "tryout" was terrible. I hope it was intentional.

They split the kids in half. 2 single lines. One on each goal. Each kid waits in line with a ball. They get to the front and do a split dodge (against no defender) on a goalie in cage. Back in line for 4 minutes! ​LOL

This was the set-up for every drill for an hour. Then they split all 60 kids into 2 teams and scrimmaged for the last 20 minutes.

The tryout was perfect for their purpose - No one stood out. You couldn't. There wasnt enough time or reps. You could have told me that my nephew was the best player there, if you wanted to. But I wouldn't have been able to dispute you. Because you couldn't tell squat. It was exactly what the club wanted- a charade to keep the list they already wanted.

I understand why kids/parents avoid these clown shows.

They aren’t elite because they don’t beat all star teams?

This. Is. Nonsense.

You started out by saying your kid wasn’t elite.

I mean…that’s sort of the end of it isn’t it?

He wasn’t good enough to make it? There’s nothing wrong with that but don’t blame the system:

This thread is seemingly dominated by parents of non elite kids - who detest elite lax because of the holdbacks.

When what seems to be the case is the kids aren’t good enough to play at that level anyway - so might as well rage against the entire machine.

They aren’t elite because they don’t beat all star teams?

This. Is. Nonsense.[/quote]

Correct, they aren't elite. They are really good regional teams with some elite players but they can't beat the traditional and growing number of national teams. There are some terriffic class teams outside of the area like 91 Machine and a couple others but those are few and far between.

The AAA, AA and other labeled teams just aren't very good. The parents of the best players are always seeking upward movement and teams. Almost any of the top elite division HoCo teams beat the older lower tier teams.

Look at Club Lacrosse Nationals. Except for 2026 (and I don't know how Stealth won but kudos), every division was won by a national all-star team.

I'm in the mess now. The "Elite" division in Hoco level is simply the all-holdback division. The kids who are playing in the elite division are good kids who are have held back and are now older/bigger. The true "elite" talented kids (by age) are mostly playing on-class or playing up a grade in AAA ball.

There's no such thing as a holdback division and you'll learn that as these kids get into high school. They are in a class and those kids get playing time based on how good they are in that class and on the team. Then they recruited based on if they are good within that class.

There are more on age kids on elite than you think.

True, Mostly. But you're forgetting that if you don't do well as a '25, you can reclass as a '26. Or do a prep year, etc.
It's all able to be manipulated and engineered.

Correct, they aren't elite. They are really good regional teams with some elite players but they can't beat the traditional and growing number of national teams. There are some terriffic class teams outside of the area like 91 Machine and a couple others but those are few and far between.

The AAA, AA and other labeled teams just aren't very good. The parents of the best players are always seeking upward movement and teams. Almost any of the top elite division HoCo teams beat the older lower tier teams.

Look at Club Lacrosse Nationals. Except for 2026 (and I don't know how Stealth won but kudos), every division was won by a national all-star team.[/quote]


So Alabama would probably lose to the senior bowl north squad.

By your logic they stink because they don’t beat all star teams.

I’d say that’s comparing apples to oranges but that’s So clearly obvious i don’t know how you cannot differentiate the two.

Yeah it’s called the Maryland cheater Division!

So Alabama would probably lose to the senior bowl north squad.

By your logic they stink because they don’t beat all star teams.

I’d say that’s comparing apples to oranges but that’s So clearly obvious i don’t know how you cannot differentiate the two.[/quote]

Alabama and Ohio State are exactly like all star teams. Alabama had seven 5 stars in their recruiting class. Maryland is lucky to get a couple of 3 and 4 stars. It's also the reason why the Power 5 was formed so they could horde all the money and players. And if I took the best players from the Power 5 teams and formed another conference where those teams played against the SEC and Big 10, then yeah, there would be a new level of elite.

Teams like Madlax, Hawks and Next Level are really good regional teams. They don't stink at all and they have lots of good players and win lots of games but there is a next tier aspect.

The teams that are really dragging are the lower tier teams of HoCo. Your football analogy is pretty good. The FCS makes up about 7% of the NFL and probably 1% making a difference. When they, either in lacrosse or football, win a game against an elite team it is considered big news.

The above guy is in some sort of weird reality where all star teams are the standard.

None of your analogies make any sense - the attempted parallels are silly.

Comparing next level to west coast starz is pointless.

On my son's team, we only have 4 holdback, 2 of whom are August birthday so held back by a month. And we manage to win more than our share of games.

The above guy doesn't get it and has lost the argument. Twisting words to the opposite doesn't work.
Yes, comparing NL to WCS is pointless because one is a local team and the other is a national recruiting all star team. 1 is better on the field than the other.
You are angry your kid got cut from the elite HoCo team and your kid rides the bench for Team 91. You wish the system was different to accomodate your kids but now realize they will never start for a good team. And now you realize the elite teams beyond elite HoCo are a pipe dream.

Where is he saying it's the standard? He's saying they are elite and their level of play is better than almost every other team. My kid is on one of the 3 mentioned and he's right. Those all-star teams are way better and our best players play for them.

He literally said “they aren’t elite.”

Obviously you held your son back to play against younger children. Well done Karen

Stop trying to justify cheating, all you Maryland people are cheaters, accept it you can’t win without cheating your a bunch of Demacrooks!

Easy there , Cheaters come from both parties, even tho the character driven (lol) MD private schools are notorious for being Dunning Kruger prototypes .

When trying to make a cogent point, try using periods at the end of complete sentences. Oh and it's "you're" and not "your". The "Demacrooks" comment basically gave away your level of comprehension anyway.

When the anonymous forum resorts to insults and Karen name calling the argument has been lost.

Don’t you have a capitol that you’d like to storm?

This thread is so toxic.

I’m not sure why it even exists but there are some big time angry parents here lol.

Keep posting though - it’s amusing.

Only thing more toxic is 13 year olds playing vs 11 year olds and parents saying it’s within the rules.

Hey Karen, maybe if you get a sex change operation for your son Chubby he might make a girls AAA elite team in Idaho. Keep those outdated memes coming, little man. LoL

Whether it's due to academics or athletics, I love people trying to justify that their kid JUST couldn't cut-it, on-age.

It's my favorite thing to laugh at on the sidelines. Other than the super old dads in their "cool" team-store quarter-zips and boat shoes.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nu_UquJUg8Y/maxresdefault.jpg

If you still don’t understand the rules, then you probably should have been held back in school to help with the reading comprehension.

Maybe you should hold back Johnny so he doesn’t suffer same issues?

Whether it's due to academics or athletics, I love people trying to justify that their kid JUST couldn't cut-it, on-age.

It's my favorite thing to laugh at on the sidelines. Other than the super old dads in their "cool" team-store quarter-zips and boat shoes.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nu_UquJUg8Y/maxresdefault.jpg[/quote]


This from an invidious Baltimore Public HS cretin, where they become fathers at 16 or 17 and the wildebeests get knocked-up at 14 or 15 years old. Don’t be jealous of others success; after all it was your lack of intelligence that caused you to dropout of school and fail the GED.
By-the-way Karen, when you cash your welfare check you can thank dad’s that actually work for a living.

This from an invidious Baltimore Public HS cretin, where they become fathers at 16 or 17 and the wildebeests get knocked-up at 14 or 15 years old. Don’t be jealous of others success; after all it was your lack of intelligence that caused you to dropout of school and fail the GED.
By-the-way Karen, when you cash your welfare check you can thank dad’s that actually work for a living.[/quote]

Somebody touched a nerve on the holdback dad! Chill dude!

I seriously laughed out loud reading each of these posts. Quality work keyboard warriors!

This is one of the better comments. Well Done ..waiting now for the holdback apologists empire to strike back

Not just a nerve an open wounded nerve. 10 years ago, these holdbacks would have another name for going against younger players in youth. That is why the parents rant, rave , cry and make every excuse you can make up to justify it.

a lot stems from the way that prefirst at privates are told they will be the leaders in 1st grade. Dont worry about being held back. You are a leader now since your skills will be better than children one year younger than you. They are right generally, huge difference from a 1st and 2nd grader. Frankly most of the more aggressive kids in private from my experience were usually prefirsts .

Ease up there holdback apologist , obviously from your remarks, you are projecting ..

Yes, it is a good comment, representative of all wife-beater T-shirt wearing, beer belly Public School dads who act like Neanderthals at any youth sports events they attend. And let’s not forget their wildebeest spouses.
Thank goodness for Maryland’s top quality Private schools.

What is the point of all of this?

Isn’t that a saying in Maryland, cheater cheater wife beater!

This whole argument is just beating a dead horse.
If a parents want to hold a kid back prefirst for “academic or maturity” reasons, so be it. But to then hold back again for lacrosse is a DB move. They know it. We know it. Everyone knows it.

If they would only post rosters with birthdays of each kid on each team in the HOCO league. This toxic thread would go away because the parents of said older kid would be embarrassed at how big a DB the kid is acting like when he torches someone a year or two younger and acts like he did something special. And then all the parents that don’t like holdbacks could yell at his parents for being DB’s.
That, my friends, would be awesome.