BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Bring Honesty Back

It is not going to change. Stop being so concerned about winning. For on age kids, the next few years will be rocky. Stay the course and it will even out eventually.

Frustrating? Yes. End of the world? No.

The "supposed to be fun" I agree with. Coaches playing a kid with a beard in a 5th grade game, sorry not so much. You can rationalize all you want: 1) it does not matter; 2) you are a hammerhead; 3) you are a donk; blah blah blah. All just a dodge. Just do not cheat and you will not have hammerheads like me calling you out on it, which is what I suspect is your real problem.

I guess you thought you would get some validation on BOTC. Stop looking for it and just do it. Can't believe adult males still need to get a hug for following their convictions. Kind of ridiculous.[/quote]

You are an odd duck whoever you are. This is supposed to be fun. Does not seem like are having much fun unless acting like a hammerhead is fun for you.[/quote]

Good assessment.

100% right

Agree, things will not change if left up to the clubs. It is in the interest of those that cheat and win to continue to cheat and win, especially if there is no ramification on cheating. What is shocking is that there are clubs and coaches that risk their reputations to win a youth lacrosse game/tournament. At end of the day, nobody is living or dying based on this cheating, but it is so easy to clean up and the right thing to do, it just needs to be done. A public forum to out the cheaters should be more than enough to at least scare a few of the cheaters into walking a straighter line, for fear of being outed and ruining their reputations..

Confused. What you are writing now is much different than your original post. Originally you were complaining saying out of state kids from the same program but a different team came or older kids from your same program but older teams were coming and pushing your kid out. Now are you just complaining because your kid is worse than the other players on the team?

You would have been a popular fool during the trial era.

I think you are the one confused. Some of these comments were mine and some were not. Overall, pretty simple concept. do not cheat or else catch well deserved flak.

If you are responding to my comment about moving my son you are mistaken - I have no complaints. I am just putting my son in a better place to succeed. Somewhere he will be happier because he loves playing lacrosse!!

I would not worry about that. If a false accusation were made, I am sure the mob would scream.

If you are responding to my comment about moving my son you are mistaken - I have no complaints. I am just putting my son in a better place to succeed. Somewhere he will be happier because he loves playing lacrosse!![/quote]

Your original post to start this thread was all a giant complaint,,,,,said clubs cheated bringing older or out of state players from different teams within the same club organizations. Put up or stop fool.

This problem is not new. This has been going on for years.
Every year the number of clubs grows. Clubs add 2nd and 3rd teams. Rosters are growing to ridiculous numbers. When my oldest son started playing club there were a fraction of the teams most clubs didn’t have 2 teams in each age group. Rosters were capped at 20. I’m just happy my youngest is almost done.
I do not place all the blame on the club owners. The parents are to blame also. We keep forking over the cash so our kids can get a partial scholarship. We are the insane ones. We have this dream that lacrosse will get our kids into a better school that they would not be able to get into with out playing so parents do everything they can to give their kid an upper hand.
I’ve had four kids go through the clubs (3 boys and 1 girl) from my experience very few kids ended up In better schools. Most not all would have been accepted into the school that they choose. Believe me from experience just about every kid on Norte Dame, Duke, VA, Hopkins. Would have been able to get in to those schools without lacrosse. Does it make it easier for them. Sure did. But they would have made it anyway.

Your original post to start this thread was all a giant complaint,,,,,said clubs cheated bringing older or out of state players from different teams within the same club organizations. Put up or stop fool.[/quote]

some people just complain to complain, you will not change them, they are always a victim

Your original post to start this thread was all a giant complaint,,,,,said clubs cheated bringing older or out of state players from different teams within the same club organizations. Put up or stop fool.[/quote]

Again, not the same poster. You are putting them all together, There are many parties commenting.......

Again, not the same poster. You are putting them all together, There are many parties commenting.......[/quote]

We all know it is just you.

Again, not the same poster. You are putting them all together, There are many parties commenting.......[/quote]

I'm not sure who is posting what but I think all of angry posts are coming from the same dude. I think everyone else acknowledges the system is messed up.

I'm not sure who is posting what but I think all of angry posts are coming from the same dude. I think everyone else acknowledges the system is messed up.[/quote]

And you know this because 1) you have access to all IP addresses; or 2) you really have no idea but make you more comfortable thinking this is one person versus multiple persons.

For the kids that are at NLF and similar, yes, they and their parents are in it for scholarship money and/or admission to better schools. But this is really a small fraction of the teams/events making up summer travel lacrosse. There are many more clubs/teams (and lower teams at the very few power clubs) playing at other events, which are far more numerous. All of these kids are playing because: 1) it is fun; 2) many of their friends do it, so a bit of FOMO; 3) parents want them occupied for the summer and don't want to have to pay for a million vacations/shore houses; 4) it is necessary to keep up with the Jones' in order to be good enough to play Varsity at their mediocre, but perfectly fine, HS program.

For this latter group, which again is the large majority of kids playing, the cheating that you speak of is close to non-existent. You don't see the bloated rosters. All kids get plenty of playing time. No one uses guest players. Very few if any holdbacks (and those that exist are non-lacrosse related). Everyone is at the correct grade. Yes, the teams aren't as good as the NLF teams, and the top players here are only going D-3 (absent a few D1s here and there), but this is where your kid can go to in a second if the cheating and nonsense you speak of (the original poster I am referring to) is too much to bear - of which I don't condone by the way. The top brackets at these events (or sometimes just the top "schedule" at a smaller event) have teams that are not far from many of the lower half NLF teams, and unless your kid is a stud at NLF he won't stand out in a "he is too good for this" way.

USA Hockey goes by birth year as well.

I'm not sure who is posting what but I think all of angry posts are coming from the same dude. I think everyone else acknowledges the system is messed up.[/quote]

You got royally trolled.

No offense but you're obviously misinformed. Kids are allowed to play in their graduation year . If a kid is a holdback for whatever reason and there are legit reasons besides sports then he's allowed to play down in his graduation year . Unless uslacrosse changes the rules to age bases just like every other sport that is not being dishonest or cheating it's actually playing by the rules . And while I agree that it's crazy for people to be held back then reclass for any sport including lacrosse it is still without the rules . Needs to go age based. People have been saying that for years

Please name the club where this happened.

some people just complain to complain, you will not change them, they are always a victim[/quote]

Pretty much.

Express 😎

Express, FCA are both notorious for this. Fellowship Of Cheating Athletes

Unfortunately, you are either misinformed or intentionally putting your head in the sand. Grade based is the rule. What do you do when those rules are broken, not a reclass, but outright broken. A non-reclassed 8th grader playing in a 7th grade game.

Exactly. When a 2025 plays for a 2026 team because they “plan on reclassing” is not the same as a kid who actually reclassed. And most if not all tournaments specify that players can only play on one team during the tournament. These examples happen all the time because their is no way to enforce.

If your player plays on one team on age/grade and is Invited to play another team with in the organization
What is wrong with that? If the player is going to play against better competition what’s wrong with that?

"Reclassing for lacrosse... losers.

Playing up, no one cares, except maybe the player on the older team that loses playing time. Basically building an all star team. I guess if other teams had the same opportunity to do it, fine. But if you were one of the displaced players, probably not very happy.

Playing down, cheating.

Thanks JS. . Way to justify

My Johnny has one chin whisker and your kid has two, wawawa!

stinks to get displaced, but it’s not cheating if playing up.

I’d go as far to say that any kid can play in any tournament, for any organization or multiple organizations, as long as the player is not playing for two competing teams in the same bracket and following age/grade rules of tournament or otherwise specified by the tournament. But typically it’s never specified otherwise.

Again, stinks to get displaced but this is not cheating.

I'm used to the holdbacks, but if teams are dropping players down for the summer before they actually reclass that that seems like cheating to me. Lacrosse year starts after tryouts. If you player from Sept through June on a 2025, dropping down to a 2026 for the summer is cheating. Dropping down in September while repeating 8th grade is not.

If Club Lacrosse would simply adopt rules as USSoccer/USAHockey/USBaseball (Hard age driven) - These issues would never occur. It’s sad that this has never been really addressed. Can’t imagine how many children have been injured by a kid 2-3 years older ....playing in the same ‘Grade Driven’ division. In all intensive purposes ....it’s cheating. But it really isn’t if there are no rules stating otherwise. This needs to be fixed ASAP.

Agree. Unfortunately it will take a lawsuit to force their hand as well as the lax tournament directors to enforce

It is frustrating competing against the reclass, holdbacks and cheaters. I will say that I truly believe my guy got a lot better playing against older players and always up against the best. He is playing high lever d1 and great academic school. Would he have done better if holdbacks did not take up college spots? Probably. But he would not have been as good of a player. With the holdbacks taking top spots it works out for some. When it does not work it is a disaster for the holdback in many ways.

Would love to play poker with you! Wrong again. If the player is a 2026 grad year they can play 2024, 2025, 2026 all year long, even in the same tournament if it is approved by the TD, as long as they do not play 2027. The whiner, complainer above is funny and seems unstable.

The hold back argument on here was annoying and tiresome before. Now a whole discussion on it?