BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Salisbury vs Tufts in what should be a great final.

Your comment is ridiculous and based on nonsense . You seem to use seeding against UNC yet they would not be a one seed without Ortega . I could be wrong but UNC is undefeated having won both the regular season ACC title and the ACC tournament . I can guarantee you UNC does not faceguard North while BC will Ortega or Hoeg or both . The reason I bring this up is you cannot base your “ knowledge of the game “ on who scores more goals or points as who you play and how they play the game matters . To say the Tewaaraton is clearly between those two is just uneducated .

All three are terrific players, All are worthy of the award it will come down to Final Four Performance, IMHO. From what I have seen Scane and North are similar in that they are powerful dynamic players who do a lot of their work dodging / going to goal. Ortega can certainly dodge but is more finesse and is excellent maybe the best off-ball and maybe the best finisher. Each plays a different roll on their respective
Teams. The tactics a team decides to use in Oerter to defend each player does not indicate which player is best. Carolina could probably win without Ortega, not sure if BC or NU can win without CN of IS. Again, they simply play different rolls. I think it goes to the player who the committee believes has the best Final Four appearance and if their team wins the NC it will be a big help.

Umm... you’ll see I’m right in a couple weeks!

They are all amazing players and I think Hoeg should also have been a finalist, but North deserves the Tewaaraton in my opinion. She is an extra level of amazing. UNC having closer ncaa games has more to do with the committee messing up 5-8 seeding than UNC being overrated as top seed. It’s the quarterfinals - games should not be so lopsided! ND also lost 4-18 to UNC in the ACC semis and while I think they have great players and did not end up meeting their potential in the end, they did not earn a 5 seed when it counted. Duke should not have been seeded just because they “didn’t get blown out much” against the top ACC teams. UNC, BC, and SU were very deserving of top 4 seeding - no question about it and a top year overall for ACC - but there are a handful of other teams like SBU that once again showed they deserve benefit of the doubt over middle of the pack ACC teams.

Im a huge Ortega fan, but how can you ignore 170 DC. That’s just out of this world!

I don’t ignore it but she has essentially taken every draw for BC even in all the blowout games so yes it’s an inflated number . It’s also the same way I don’t ignore her 11 assists which is a low number especially considering how much time the ball is in her stick . That said I took issue with the poster that said the Tewaaraton is clearly between Scane and North when it clearly is not . Has Ortega been shut down in any game , has North which again has a lot to do with how teams game plan against them.

Sounds like a dad trying to justify why his daughter should be the winner. Probably did the same thing in HS. Sorry not even close! North or Scane different level.

Had a chance to watch SU v FL last night. A better/closer game than 17-11 would lead you to think. But I have a question FL was missing possibly the number 1,2,3 ranked defender in the country in CT number 16. Did she get injuried? She is an incredible defender and leader of that D and team.

So, I guess by your logic we should discount the Carolina players numbers considering the fact that approximately 70% of her goals and points came in "blowout games" where UNC won by 10 or more goals... I guess the numbers (goals and assists) are also inflated.

Your comments shows your complete lack of knowledge . We get it you dislike Ortega but what would make you think BC makes the finals because they beat ND who 2 weeks ago gave up 18 straight goals against UNC . If North wins the Tewaaraton then the award should stand for something different .[/quote]

Don't dislike Ortega at all. She's a great player and played very well today. The other two are notch up in my opinion, and their teams had dominant wins, where UNC barely survived as a number 1 seed. We'll see what happens next week.[/quote]

Your comment is ridiculous and based on nonsense . You seem to use seeding against UNC yet they would not be a one seed without Ortega . I could be wrong but UNC is undefeated having won both the regular season ACC title and the ACC tournament . I can guarantee you UNC does not faceguard North while BC will Ortega or Hoeg or both . The reason I bring this up is you cannot base your “ knowledge of the game “ on who scores more goals or points as who you play and how they play the game matters . To say the Tewaaraton is clearly between those two is just uneducated .[/quote]

Im a huge Ortega fan, but how can you ignore 170 DC. That’s just out of this world![/quote]


I don’t ignore it but she has essentially taken every draw for BC even in all the blowout games so yes it’s an inflated number . It’s also the same way I don’t ignore her 11 assists which is a low number especially considering how much time the ball is in her stick . That said I took issue with the poster that said the Tewaaraton is clearly between Scane and North when it clearly is not . Has Ortega been shut down in any game , has North which again has a lot to do with how teams game plan against them.[/quote]

So, I guess by your logic we should discount the Carolina players numbers considering the fact that approximately 70% of her goals and points came in "blowout games" where UNC won by 10 or more goals... I guess the numbers (goals and assists) are also inflated.[/quote]

See you finally got it ,you are not as slow as I thought. You cannot just look at the numbers and determine which player deserves the Tewaaraton .You need to actually watch them play ,especially in the more evenly matched games. In my opinion any one of the players that have been mentioned are worthy and actually some that are not on the list . There are things such as leadership or do they make the players around them better that are admittedly subjective that should count for something and it takes watching these players not just their stats.

WOW ,you anti ACC must feel really clueless to have argued with the above posts for the better part of a couple weeks. Honestly these posts could not have been proven any better this year.

I believe she is injured. Yes, difficult to lose a key player and leader like that. Cuse lost their two best attackers due to injury and has been playing without them. Unfortunately seems like many teams have to deal with this.

Congratulations to Salisbury, winning the D3 title 14-13 over Tufts. Tufts came from down 14-10, hitting a post late in the game that would have tied it. Great game.

Considering Maryland vs Duke was a one goal game I would say obviously Maryland would have been competitive. Florida played Syracuse tough so I would say they would be competitive, Stony Brook gave UnC a better game than most of the ACC schools did. I would say this is a year like most other years. Several teams can compete with all but the Top 2 maybe 3 Teams in the ACC. It is what it is, just like the BIG, Ivy, Patriot etc... The Top 2-3 Teams are significantly stronger than the rest. ND ain’t UNC.

Just wondering if Spallina can win the big one at Stony Brook. The school draws a lot of Long Island talent but not a lot from out of state.

So we heard a lot around the draw at ND v BC game so had to watch it myself. Whoever says North never goes up on the draw is exactly right. The rule states that you don’t have to go straight up but your first motion has to be up. Her first motion 90 percent of the time is down, then up to the side in a swooping motion. Immediate illegal draw. I don’t how the refs can’t see that motion down. It is pretty obvious. But like speeding, your not guilty until caught doing it. A definite advantage on the draw if the ref doesn’t call it.

Lol, sounds like a whiny lost. Good thing you’re not the ref!

Although anything is possible it is highly unlikely. Only 12 Programs have ever won a championship with a handful winning more than 1. It has been a while since Penn State, Virginia, Princeton and Northwestern have won The National Championship. How long did it take for UNC to win their first championship? Notre Dame and Duke have not been able to do it, Stanford and USC have a lot to offer recruits yet they have not been able to get over the hump. Syracuse? No. AW has done an incredible job at BC but no NC. Florida? Michigan? No. At the end of the day coaches need “The Players “. JS has been a few players short multiple times, as have many programs. The best coaches can’t win if they don’t have the athletes and bad coaches can’t win even when they have the best athletes.

Who is we? I don’t recall hearing a single thing about it.

I don't know who we are but I do know that Gait and Syracuse were definitely on the refs about it at the ACC tournament .I did go and watch and it does look like she either drops the stick down first or sometimes just straight forward. Not sure if during the Cuse game any illegal draws were called but definitely not a legal draw if going by the rules not sure why the refs do not call it .

I do recall her getting called on it a lot in a previous game, but not sure which one - maybe UNC? Whichever game it was, you could tell how mad she was getting.

People are funny. I have seen posts on here about how her celebrations should keep her out of the running, how she is not a good teammate, how her DC numbers are inflated because she takes the draw even in blowout games, she cheats and GG and the SU coaches even complained to the officials and now the topper “how mad” she was getting.... this has actually become comical.

Where did you see any "Anti ACC"? The post I have seen are not anti ACC, the post that I have seen simply point out that all ACC Teams are not the same and they are not all dominant. The post I have seen rebut the opinion that no other teams can compete with the ACC teams.

To say that the ACC is a 3 team conference is disparaging to some very good teams and it was simply pointed out that if you are going to say that than you might as well say the NCAA D1 is a four team conference. No one said all the teams in the ACC are equal to one another but to discount the other teams as irrelevant is ridiculous and the question was asked what teams from outside the ACC other than NW would be more competitive . I am no ND fan but the haters on here take a swipe at them every chance they get when realistically not many other teams have done better.

To say that the ACC is a 3 team conference is disparaging to some very good teams and it was simply pointed out that if you are going to say that than you might as well say the NCAA D1 is a four team conference. No one said all the teams in the ACC are equal to one another but to discount the other teams as irrelevant is ridiculous and the question was asked what teams from outside the ACC other than NW would be more competitive . I am no ND fan but the haters on here take a swipe at them every chance they get when realistically not many other teams have done better.

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From what I have read on here, there is one guy who has the opinion that no team with the exception of NU can compete with the other ACC teams. Others on here have the opinion (myself included) that there are several teams "this" and every year that can in fact compete with the majority of ACC teams. This year, The Big Ten and Ivy league did not compete as usual and many other traditional crossover games did not take place, this year was an aberration to say the least. There were posters on here all year long claiming "Maryland stinks" yet they played Duke to 1 goal (obviously they competed). Stony Brook was obviously competitive with the best team in the ACC so I would assume that they are competitive with the other ACC Teams. Florida was Competitive with Syracuse who is the #2 ACC team so I would say that Florida would be as competitive as the majority of ACC Teams. Since we will never know because the games never happened this year I think that it is reasonable to look at history in order to speculate on what things would have been like if this was a normal year.

The reality is that in recent years, The ACC has been a league dominated by 2 Teams, North Carolina and Boston College. I could care less about ND but the facts speaks for themselves, they have been very average in the ACC and they play a very soft non-conference schedule compared to many perennial Top 20 teams. Duke has even softened their non-conference schedule in recent years (although not to the extent ND has). Virginia and Syracuse play difficult non-conference schedules as do BC & UNC. Va Tech & Louisville are borderline Top 25 Programs so I believe their non-conference schedule are appropriate for them.

The one "poster" seems to be obsessed with "more competitive" as opposed to "as competitive" the problem with that is, we will never know because the games did not happen and never will never happen "this year" so we are left with nothing but opinion.

I have not seen a single post indicating that the ACC is not a strong conference or the deepest conference. However, the opinion that no other teams can compete with The ACC is just that, an opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.

Your whole post is non sense . The “ACC “ guy and long winded .He clearly is speaking about this year not past years and clearly was standing up for the ND , UVA , Duke , level teams in the ACC saying other than NW who would be more competitive in the ACC this year . It’s simple but you know it all types keep making up non existent comments .

How is it comical . She is probably the most disliked player in the game and it’s not because she is so talented . Say what you want but I have spoken to several of her former and current teammates and she is not well liked even by them . As far as the draw it looks like she just dominated ND without doing the dip or force forward in other words legally , against Cuse and previous games was definitely going against the rules .

Lol, you sound like a typical lax dad. All girls are disliked and ball hogs when they are doing better than your daughter. And now you make up lies about cheating? Give it a rest. It's over.

Thanks Jimmy Olsen. You are doing a great job with the daily planet. I’m sure you have done in depth interviews with current and former teammates. I do know this. She is better than your daughter.

I have question I am hoping a ref or someone can answer. I am teaching my youth team the SU flip offense(or trying to) and I saw ion USlacrosse mag Instagram the SU v FL highlight. I saw where the flip person flipped the ball to the her teammate then backed into the defender to block her from staying on the girl she flipped to. Is this legal? I would love to add that in, but thought it would be called for interference or blind pick. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

It’s an illegal pick. Will it be called? Maybe.

Gibberish.

Excited to watch 2 good games tomorrow - just wish the times were more feasible. Either way, they should be fun to watch!

For all the haters on UA Senior Team selections there are 65 UA All-Americans playing this weekend. Maybe they do know what they are doing after all....

In most cases, there is a direct correlation between the number of Under Armour All-Americans a team brings in and how competitive the team is.

But so many people here say it's all political and most the girls aren't deserving of playing in the game

There are 95 players playing this weekend who weren’t on UA. 2 ways to look at it.

Obviously not every player on a team is going to be an Under Armour All-American. 44 players are selected each year, over the past 5 years that's a total of 220 players (not all are still playing, not all eligible 5th years came back, some injuries etc...), There are more than 100 DI women's lacrosse teams and more than 3,000 women competing.

Here is another way to look at it...

Over the past 5 years 24 DI women's programs have brought in at least 1 Under Armour All-American

North Carolina - 23
Maryland - 20
Syracuse - 18
Florida - 14
Notre Dame - 14
Northwestern - 12
Virginia - 12
Boston College - 11
Duke - 10
Stanford - 10
Loyola - 9
Princeton - 7
Penn State - 7
Penn - 5
USC - 5
Hopkins - 4
Stony Brook - 3
Towson - 3
Harvard - 3
Ohio State - 3
Richmond - 2
Va Tech - 2
Yale - 2
Colorado - 1
Oregon - 1
Michigan - 1

(Ivy's have no 5th year or Graduate students)

If you look at recent history 2016 - 2019 even (20' and 21' although they are not normal years) the following teams are always Top 20 at the end of the season:

Maryland
North Carolina
Boston College
Northwestern
Syracuse
Virginia
Princeton
Penn
Stony Brook
Florida

Notre Dame, JMU, Penn State might miss a year but are there just about every year,

Duke had a few off years but was still "others receiving votes or Top 25, Loyola probably similar.

At the end of the day, it is very simple, The Best College Programs consistently bring in The Best HS Players (many of which happen to be Under Armour All-Americans).

Haters like to try and elevate their daughter by trying to tear down or diminish the accomplishments of others.

I have even read on this site how the coaches at the Top College Programs get it wrong "all the time" If they keep getting it wrong, why do they keep winning?

There are plenty of very good players who are not selected to the Under Armour Team but the vast majority of those players still end up at the Top College Programs.

The fact that the coaches at the top college programs and the people who select the UA Team appear to agree on who the best players are says a lot.

This year, 7 of the Final 8 teams in the Tournament were in the Top 9 teams as far as UA AA’s ... UNC, Syracuse, Florida, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Boston College and Duke... The only teams not in the Top 10 for UA’s on the roster was Stony Brook. All 4 Final Four teams in the Top 8 with UA’s... Very good chance that the team with the most UA AA’s will win the Championship.
Pretty sure 10 of the 12 starters for unc were UA AA and 13 of the 17 who play in the competitive games were UA.
Obviously there is some correlation.
The Bottom line is really about recruiting, the best programs identify and recruit / bring in the top HS players year after year whether they are UA or not the majority of the best players seem to always go to the same 10 - 20 programs.