BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Seriously , they lost to the best team in the country, they dominated #4, #5,#10, and beat ND #4 two times.Other than NW and UNC who would you put ahead of them.

Sorry but no she should not have won it. Just as with ranking teams, strength of schedule has to be a major factor. When looking at both the Maryland and Stony Brook schedules for that year (2017) there is no comparison.

Maryland played:

14 games Vs Top 20 teams.
10 of those were Vs Top 10 teams.
7 of those were Vs Top 5 teams.

Stony Brook played:

6 games Vs Top 20 teams.
3 of those were Vs Top 10 teams.
1 of those Vs Top 5 Team.

Strength of schedule changes everything. Team record, player statistics, team ranking, tournament seeding, everything.

Tend to agree. Big Ten playing in-conference only, no Ivy’s, and limited out of conference games in general it’s difficult to assess how teams stack up.

Get over yourself. Your man to man must play nonsense is laughable. They played Duke is an absolute down pour, Florida goalie played outrageous 16 saves, and BC gave up 21 with that defense. SBU was as close in the second half as anyone as was JMU who both play zones. The team with the best chance at beating them is most likely NW who will try to make it a shoot out ,if they play the Scane -Trenchard match up will be fun to watch.

Don’t think unc will use Trenchard on Scane...
in most cases I don’t think size is a factor however Scane is a “Power” player. I’m guessing Wakefield.

If you look at SOS how does NU / Scane match up then? they aren't playing anyone in top 5-6. SOS will be thrown out this year due to Covid-Conference only play.

Lets not discount the Big 10, Pretty much every year they have between 3 - 5 Top 20 teams... Not The ACC but please.... That said it will be tough for anyone but a Carolina player if Carolina wins the National Championship. Also, there is a chance that Northwestern plays 3 games vs ACC Teams in the Tournament.

As good as UNC is, they will might have to beat an ACC Team 4 times in order to win it all.... Thats just not easy.

Most likely 3 times if it happens which is still not easy and coaching comes into play more each game,

The above post simply foolish and silly.

Is this a fact based statement or just your opinion. Please provide the basis for your opinion.

Didn't Va Tech lose to Davidson?? Own your record

That question is just as silly as the other post, of course it is his opinion.

Quick comparison of two teams with identical records in 2019 (Jacksonville: 17 - 4 and North Carolina: 17 - 4). According to your logic these teams should be considered equal and have the same "Ranking". Maybe if the competed against each other the game would have resulted in a tie.



Jacksonville Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: Not ranked at the end of the season.

Jacksonville played 3 Top 20 Teams (#11, #13, #17) Lost to all three Top 20 Teams.

Jacksonville played 0 Top 10 Teams.

Jacksonville had 0 Top 20 wins.

Jacksonville had 1 loss to an unranked team.


North Carolina Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: # 3

UNC played 12 Top 20 Teams (#1, #2 three times, #4, #5, #7 twice, #9, #13 twice, #15) 8 - 4 vs Top 20.

9 opponents were Top 10.

6 opponents were Top 5

UNC had 8 wins Vs Top 20 Teams.

5 Wins vs Top 10 Teams.

3 Wins vs Top 5 Teams.

1 Win vs the # 2 Team.

Lost to # 1 National Champion by 1 goal in OT.

BTW... UNC played #21 twice, #24, and #25 twice....

17 of 21 games were played Vs Top 25 Teams.

Sorry, In women's Division I Lacrosse a teams record means very little when comparing or evaluating teams.

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me

[/quote]

Quick comparison of two teams with identical records in 2019 (Jacksonville: 17 - 4 and North Carolina: 17 - 4). According to your logic these teams should be considered equal and have the same "Ranking". Maybe if the competed against each other the game would have resulted in a tie.



Jacksonville Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: Not ranked at the end of the season.

Jacksonville played 3 Top 20 Teams (#11, #13, #17) Lost to all three Top 20 Teams.

Jacksonville played 0 Top 10 Teams.

Jacksonville had 0 Top 20 wins.

Jacksonville had 1 loss to an unranked team.


North Carolina Record: 17 - 4

Ranking: # 3

UNC played 12 Top 20 Teams (#1, #2 three times, #4, #5, #7 twice, #9, #13 twice, #15) 8 - 4 vs Top 20.

9 opponents were Top 10.

6 opponents were Top 5

UNC had 8 wins Vs Top 20 Teams.

5 Wins vs Top 10 Teams.

3 Wins vs Top 5 Teams.

1 Win vs the # 2 Team.

Lost to # 1 National Champion by 1 goal in OT.

BTW... UNC played #21 twice, #24, and #25 twice....

17 of 21 games were played Vs Top 25 Teams.

Sorry, In women's Division I Lacrosse a teams record means very little when comparing or evaluating teams.[/quote]

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me[/quote]

I will jump in on this one. I believe the overall discussion was about the premise that a teams record is not necessarily indicative of where a team should be ranked.

Your argument does not support the contention that a teams record (alone) accurately reflects how strong a particular team is. Your argument is actually based on the fact that Virginia Tech lost to an unranked Davidson Team and that they do not have any quality wins vs Top 20 teams. It is not solely based on Virginia Techs Record.

Simply put, a teams record is not a very good barometer to use when comparing teams.

As the above comparison illustrates, the "own your record" phrase is ridiculous.

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me[/quote]

I will jump in on this one. I believe the overall discussion was about the premise that a teams record is not necessarily indicative of where a team should be ranked.

Your argument does not support the contention that a teams record (alone) accurately reflects how strong a particular team is. Your argument is actually based on the fact that Virginia Tech lost to an unranked Davidson Team and that they do not have any quality wins vs Top 20 teams. It is not solely based on Virginia Techs Record.

Simply put, a teams record is not a very good barometer to use when comparing teams.

As the above comparison illustrates, the "own your record" phrase is ridiculous.[/quote]

So Va Tech is last in the competitive ACC. They just played the other cellar dweller Louisville and lost, they lost to the team above that in Duke and the team above that in Virginia. So they are in last place. They still have one more game each against both Duke and Virginia. A win against one of those would help them get some credibility.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to an overal record not meaning as much. Duke is 6-5 with no losses outside of the ACC. That is why they are ranked. Va Tech lost to Davidson and Jacksonville. Jacksonville is ranked. At the time Va Tech was ranked but obviously no more. Beating Florida was a nice win for Jacksonville...but let's be honest, if Jacksonville was in the ACC they would probably only have 1 win. (Va Tech)

We are not talking about UNC or Jacksonville, we are talking about this years Va Tech team. They are 3-7. Those wins were against Liberty, Longwood and Radford. They lost to some very good teams but lost to unranked Davidson. Hopefully they can win one more or perhaps two more but it will be difficult. Beating Louisville would have been a good win and perhaps the only shot at an ACC win, but they lost. Please do not tell me their record means very little. Their record shouts out mediocre to me[/quote]

I will jump in on this one. I believe the overall discussion was about the premise that a teams record is not necessarily indicative of where a team should be ranked.

Your argument does not support the contention that a teams record (alone) accurately reflects how strong a particular team is. Your argument is actually based on the fact that Virginia Tech lost to an unranked Davidson Team and that they do not have any quality wins vs Top 20 teams. It is not solely based on Virginia Techs Record.

Simply put, a teams record is not a very good barometer to use when comparing teams.

As the above comparison illustrates, the "own your record" phrase is ridiculous.[/quote]

So Va Tech is last in the competitive ACC. They just played the other cellar dweller Louisville and lost, they lost to the team above that in Duke and the team above that in Virginia. So they are in last place. They still have one more game each against both Duke and Virginia. A win against one of those would help them get some credibility.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to an overal record not meaning as much. Duke is 6-5 with no losses outside of the ACC. That is why they are ranked. Va Tech lost to Davidson and Jacksonville. Jacksonville is ranked. At the time Va Tech was ranked but obviously no more. Beating Florida was a nice win for Jacksonville...but let's be honest, if Jacksonville was in the ACC they would probably only have 1 win. (Va Tech)[/quote]


Not sure what your hang up is with Virginia Tech. I do not recall anyone saying that they should be ranked. The entire point was that a in women's lacrosse you can not use a teams record to compare or rank teams you must look at who they play. I believe the discussion started because The Big 10 is only playing in-conference.

So you do not need to have at least a .500 record to get an at large bid to the tournament. Seems like they will have their work cut out for them especially with the big ten. Not playing out of conference really gives us no idea how good these big ten teams are. Difficult to see how they would stack up against the lower ranked ACC teams etc.

Yeah, The Big 10 is really a weak conference. Just curious when you say lower acc teams are you referring to everyone except UNC?

Recent History...

2016 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC- UNC, Syracuse

UNC - National Champion

2017 - Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Penn State
ACC - BC

Maryland - National Champion

2018 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland
ACC - BC, UNC

JMU - National Championship

2019 Final Four:

B1G - Maryland, Northwestern
ACC - BC, UNC

Maryland - National Champion

So let me get this straight, The Big 10 is only playing in conference so we will look at their records and then try to compare Big 10 teams to the rest of Division 1 women's teams? Since some of the teams have sub par records we must assume that they are not very good. OK, I get it.

If I understand correctly, we are to assume that the two strongest programs in the history of the sport suddenly fell apart and are no longer competitive. I guess Hopkins and Penn State are not competitive, Forget about Michigan who was ranked 11th at the end of the 2019 eason (the last full season of play). OSU and Rutgers most certainly couldn't win a non-conference game....

Wow sensitive Sally. I used the lower ranked ACC as they seem to have similar records to many of the big 10 teams. You obviously think every big ten team should make the tournament why not just say that instead of your sarcastic nonsense. If you watch Maryland some would say they have fallen apart compared to the old days ,they seem worse than the Maryland team that lost 19-6 to UNC. Not sure how Maryland would do this year in the ACC will be interesting to see who the committee selects.

Both are excellent conferences. Challenging to judge / rank teams this year. No doubt Maryland is down from their peak but still a competitive team. I don't know if every Big Ten team should make the tournament but they all look pretty good.

Is that true regarding .500 record?

Big 10 all look pretty good. Cmon man.

NU 10-0 208 Goals for. 103 goals against
Maryland 6-3. 112 GF 116 GA
Hopkins 3-4. 70 GF. 87 GA
Michigan 3-4. 82 GF. 86 GA
PSU. 3-6. 114 GF. 128 GA
Rutgers 3-6. 95 GF. 129 GA
OSU 3-8. 114 GF. 146 GA

How many pages devoted to how good the Big 10 is. Max to get in NCAA should be top 2. Can we stop with how tough conference is. Maybe a little defense would help these teams.

Considering the fact that they are only playing among themselves stats and records have no relevance when trying to compare them to teams outside their conference.

Strange year.

Normal years, yes. This year teams do not need a .500 or better record.

We all know The ACC is the deepest but I don’t think there is any other conference that is tougher than The Big Ten.

What does that even mean. Stats seem to show Big 10 is over rated except by a select few here that want to push that it is toughest conference. If your opinion is “its toughest” at least try to attach some type of facts/stats to support your position.

Trying to say.... outside of the ACC The Big 10 is the toughest conference.

Terms just announced that they will have at least two seniors come back for a 5th year in 2022..
What will this do the incoming recruits class? The 23’s?
Do you think CR tells certain seniors that she doesn’t have room for them as 5th yr?

[quote=Anonymous]Terms just announced that they will have at least two seniors come back for a 5th year in 2022..
What will this do the incoming recruits class? The 23’s?
Do you think CR tells certain seniors that she doesn’t have room for them as 5th yr?[/quote
*Terps

I assume you mean the Terps and Cathy Reese.. yesi expect the coaches will be forthright with all returning players.. either they will be continuing their scholarships or they won’t be.. I’m sure a 5th year would be welcomed back to the team but they may have to pay the full tuition to do so. Of course if the player in question is a stud.. the money will remain

Well I guess they do struggle when they go out to the Midwest

What happened to Maryland? They took some beat down from Penn State today!

Last year Maryland fell off the cliff. This year the anvil landed on their head.

Oh stop, even a broken clock is ...., no vested interest but this year ND is not even in the same class as UNC. If they play 10 games they blow them out in 8 and win all 10.

Call it struggle but at the end of the day it’s a win... now it’s 9 -1 vs Notre Dame... too bad The Big 10 not playing ... would love to watch NU vs UNC...

Finally had chance to watch replay of game last night. The weather looked horrendous. ND played a very good game against UNC at both ends of field. However the opposite wasn’t true. I know UNC won draw controls but that was quickly equalized by ND goalie play especially in first half. Also UNC made soon costly errors in transition between the 30s that had nothing to do with ND pressure. Just sloppy play. Which in others game resulted in goals for them. It wasn’t a few turnovers but many by UNC-also in there offensive plays, just missing cutters with passes and dropping the balls whicj resulted in turnovers.

That game easily could have been a loss for UNC, but playing not your best(across the board) and winning is a good sign for them. However they better not play like that many more times in Upcoming tourneys. Less room for errors moving forward.

Well, at least the jealousy is consistent on here... It really doesn't matter if people are carrying on about Under Armour Tryouts or selections, Inside Lacrosse HS player rankings, All-American Selections or College Players and Teams... There are always foolish individuals waiting for someone to fall... People with this mentality must really have a sad life. What happened? Did Maryland not recruit your daughter? Has Maryland beaten your daughters' team too many times? Or can you just not stand to see people strive for excellence and have success?

Don’t be so bitter. You spent all your money sending your daughter to Maryland for the championship culture. Unfortunately MD is not striving for excellence or success this year. Has nothing to do with UA or IL. Or maybe it does...overrated recruits not producing.