BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Penn state and UVA both not top 15 teams

“Syracuse and UNC were noted as they are currently the 2 top teams and appear to be the most egregious in stacking their teams with transfers, Grad students. The same environment exists with other teams just didn’t feel the need to note every team. Bottom line is a number of teams have used the extra scholarship money to stack their teams. Would be nice to see the money these teams have dedicated to wlax so that a fair comparison can be made. ******Asterisk for this years Natty.”

Stacking their teams with transfers tells us all I need to know , please tell us the number of transfers that are playing at UNC this year ,also at Cuse . You really are uneducated in the facts of women’s lax .The only asterisk has to be on any of your children’s birth certificates in the father column as no way any actual women’s admits that tragedy .

When you don’t have an educated argument one must spew nonsense about birth certificates. Sorry but you seem to posses a lower IQ. Read the thread. Increased scholarship money has allowed certain programs to retain 5th year students, grad students and recruit transfers. Geez... guess you failed reading comprehension. To reject the idea that certain schools gained an advantage by the scholarship rule change is putting your head in the sand. But with full slate of games we can go back to usual drivel.

Cursory quick look at a few rosters and the number of 5th year, Grad students, transfers etc

Syracuse-10, ranked #2
UNC-5, ranked #1
ND-7, ranked #4
NU-3, ranked #3
SBU-4, ranked #6

Now check your kids birth certificate. I believe genetically they are the milk mans kids.

Do you believe that in a normal year when the NCAA limit of 12 scholarships is enforced that it is a level playing field? Do you believe that all is equal? Do you not understand that there are programs that always have an advantage over their competitors? What team do you believe is being negatively affected by this reality?

After yesterday they certainly need to drop but who do you put ahead of them? I believe Duke plays Virginia again Sunday and Penn State Plays Michigan again on Sunday as well. We will see... Michigan goalie was outstanding.

Cursory quick look at last years Final Ranking... without the current situation of 5th year, Grad students, transfers etc

1 - North Carolina

2 - Notre Dame

3 - Loyola

4 - Syracuse

5 - Stony Brook

6 - Northwestern

Not a lot has changed.... Stop the whining .

Actually, allowing additional eligibility due to COVID is a bad decision. Yes it may be great for the grad students etc, but the effect on so many other players including the current freshman and high school players of recruiting age is far more damaging and impactful than the disappointment players who lost a year may have felt. Far more players are adversely impacted than those who would have lost a year.
Using the argument FOR added eligibility, shouldn’t the current freshman also get an added year? Since their ability to play may be taken away due to grads playing ahead of them?

BC just beat up Hofstra like 19-7...North had 6 on 10
Shots last one at @5 minutes left ...you gonna complain about her stat padding too? Or just the kid from UNC...

Good decision or bad decision the decision was made and everyone has to play by the same rules. Why is the situation more impactful on current freshmen and High Scholl Players?

No, the current freshmen should not receive an added year. There are always 5th year players and transfers, not playing as a freshmen because you did not earn the playing time over another player should not enable you to have an added year simply because you didn't earn playing time. There are many freshmen who are earning playing time. Life is not fair, nothing is handed to most people it is earned. It is a difficult situation for everyone, do the best you can, where you are with wat you have. Many players (freshmen, sophomores, Juniors, Seniors, Transfers, 5th yr) do not see the field.

The following statement from above blows me away but I guess I shouldn't be surprised:

** "Since their ability to play may be taken away due to grads playing ahead of them?"**

Players / people in general are owed nothing except the chance to compete. Nothing is being taken away from freshmen or any other player for that matter. Players have to earn "playing time" it doesn't matter what year the player is or it they are a transfer.

Last year????? So now those rankings count. Rankings after 6-7 games. Oh yea, they are the only teams with a chance to win. AAAAnnnndddd SBU stinks. Almost forgot that one you guys cry about.

The best part of that game is that North has clearly taught the freshman stat padding BC superstar how its done scoring in the last 10 seconds of a blowout win is just so unsportsmanlike .Difficult to root for these kids that are clearly just out to just pad their stats .

First off you have no idea how many of the returning players are receiving scholarship money so to even pretend you are educated is laughable . Second you seem to think that UNC has several transfer students playing for them when they have exactly one . Your kids team is non competitive with the best teams now move on and get over it . Cannot wait for Cuse or UNC national championship that will go down as one of the best teams to have ever played with no thought of an asterisk.

I think that you are the only one that repeats the line “Stony Brook Stinks”. Most on here recognize that they have been one of the Top 10 - 12 programs for many years now. They may not have made the jump to the “Top 5 Programs” but I don’t recall anyone saying that they stink. I love the passion of the Stony Brook Faithful but sometimes they wear the rose colored glasses. You still refuse to tell us all why you are obsessed with this. We get it, some teams have an advantage over other teams . Having an advantage is nothing new , most of of just don’t get your fixation with it. It’s never a level playing field and life isn’t fair. BTW, if JS had your attitude Stony Brook would not win a game.

And last but not least SB's own Ally Kennedy 6g on 9 shots leading 17-11 with about 4 to go takes the last shot.....Anything? or still only that one kid who is a stat padder...

Enough, you are going to give this clown with the obsession about an “advantage “ a run for his money.

Yes she is just as embarrassing a stat paddler as Ortega , North and Scane . They are all playing as if the only thing that matters is winning the Tewaaraton and it may cost their team a championship . The best player in the country is a defender and I hope she gets the recognition she deserves .Watch these ball hog players when they score late in a game that has already been decided and their teammates can barely congratulate them . I guarantee that these kids and their parents constantly watch each other’s stat lines and think I need to be a bigger ball hog . Give me the player that would rather win a national championship than a Tewaaraton because non of those kids would .

I think it is much on the coaches as anyone with stat padders. Why is you best player in a blow out? I would call that notIntelligent.

I would normally pile on here but 6 goal game shot clock 5 minutes to go. Yes you shoot

The best player many years is a defender or a two way midfielder who does her work between the lines. Most coaches recognize this as do people who understand the game. Too many people do not understand what’s important so they only look at goals. That said, to try to diminish the incredible offensive players like North, Scane and Ortega is simply laughable. They are great players. Championship are won with teams that are built from back to front. Go research JMU in 2018 or Maryland in 2019 or any other team... they hold their opponents to fewer goals than their average every time. Syracuse has had some incredible offensive players but they have not won a NC, Florida has had plenty of offensive talent yet no NC... stony Brook has had great offensive talent... Notre Dame has brought in big Li offensive talent.... if you want to win a championship you need an exceptional goalie, an athletic defense and midfielders who can control the middle of the field.
Having a prolific scorer would be icing on the cake but it will never work the other way. You can have the best offensive player in the game but without the grinders the team will not win a championship.

Nobody has said they are not great players but if you watch each of them this year it’s obvious that a lot of what they are doing is about them getting numbers and not about making their team better . There is essentially no reason they should be scoring late in a game that has already been decided other than padding their stats . While I hope a defender gets the Tewaaraton and your post sounds nice I disagree that the best player many years is a defender or even a two way middy. Say what you want but college coaches many times take their most skilled players and put them at attack where they will never come off the field . Defense is more about team work than individual play .

Do you believe that teams do not have certain advantages every year? Do all programs offer 12 scholarships? Do all programs offer the same amount of admissions slots? Are all universities considered equal academically? Do all programs have the same operating budget? I assume that your daughters program must have some advantages over at least some other programs. Not sure why you are so troubled by the current situation.

Agree, coaches let it happen.

A couple of a things-
To answer the question plain and simple yes the teams with more 5th years are better than others. SU, ND and NW and UNC have many of them. With that said, that is the rules that NCAA allowed so who really cares. The interesting part of this comes in coming years when “extra”money as it did this year paid for the over and above scholarship for the 5th years. Many coaches will be taking money from other players to fund the current seniors for their 5th year. Many schools top players are true seniors that need to be funded by 12.6 that was spent on 2021 coming in as 2017 were supposed to be graduating. Should be fun to watch this balancing act. For example is UNC not going to fund JO, SG, AM, TM, ET. They sure will as will other top schools.

As far as stat padding-let’s look at how bad these coaches are that these kids are playing against. My god have you watched any film on the player. Has any of them heard of a Shut off? a early slide? a players tendency? When she pulls way out we are doubling immediately? a player usually goes this way? a player has 2 assist and 200 goals-so they are pretty committed to shooting and not passing? I would
Like to see a scouting report of these coaches. This is u-9 stuff .

Come on. Do your job.

IMHO a player has to do a lot more than score goals to be considered the best player. "Most skilled players" you are not looking at all skills... Players like Sam Apuzzo deserve to win the Tewaaraton, simply racking up goals does not do it for me. Most parents on here can only identify goal scorers. Tough to identify all of the things that defenders and two way midfielders do that contribute to a teams success, it's easy to count goals. I have watched attackers literally do (just about) noting for an entire game but if they score a couple of goals people think they had a good game. Then they watch a two way midfielder play great defense, redefend like crazy, be involved in multiple clears, come up with ground balls etc... and many people don't think they did much. You have to do it all in my opinion in order to win the Tewaaraton. Great to see a goalie win it a couple of years ago, very difficult for a defender.

Penn State rebounded with a win over Michigan today, let's see if Virginia can rebound as well.

Agree, there are not a lot of good coaches.

I think the NCAA's decision to grant an additional year will hurt what I would call (for lack of a better term) 2nd tier HS players for the next few years. The Top 50 or so HS players in each grade will be fine, these are the players that are usually offered spots at the Top 10 - 15 programs. I think college coaches will be looking to keep their "top players" for a 5th year, they will also look to bring in proven college players as graduate students and they will also be looking to the transfer portal for proven under graduate transfers. Look at Towson, They brought in two graduate transfers from Maryland and the players started from day 1, Towson also brought in a sophomore transfer from Boston college who has also started from day 1. Syracuse has a Grad Transfer from Georgetown who has played in every game starting 3 of 5. So it's not just the Big Name players that are coming in as graduate students or transfers. Programs that do not traditionally get top tier recruits may be able to pick up some as graduate students or transfers. Going to be a little crazy for the next few years.

Virginia bounced back as well. This is where ACC and Big Ten teams have an advantage over teams like Stony Brook and Florida when they go into the NCAA Tournament. The competition will better prepare them.

The difference is Penn S is swapping wins and losses in close games to an unranked team. Duke and Virginia are ranked pretty much the same, and should be swapping swapping wins.

I watched both games, Michigan is a top 20 team. They may get hurt playing Maryland 2 x and Northwest 2x and Hopkins 2x as well as PSU 2x let’s see if they avenge their loss to OSU the second time around.

It will be interesting to see what The Selection Committee does with their selections and seeding.

I guess an argument can be made that UVA and Duke could be ranked ahed of Penn State but I don't see anyone else that belongs ahead of them. Still don't think Stony Brook should be Top 10. Not sure Loyola belongs in the Top 15. I guess just like every other year it will come down to the NCAA Tournament, the cream usually rises.

And there you have it... “Defense is more about Teamwork than individual play”.

And we wonder why there are so many selfish players.

Go to goal.....

1 North Carolina
2 Syracuse
3 Northwestern
4 Notre Dame
5 Boston College
6 Stony Brook
7 Duke
8 Virginia
9 Maryland
10 Penn State
11 Jacksonville
12 Florida
13 Loyola
14 Michigan
15 Louisville
16 Navy
17 Drexel
18 Stanford
18 Richmond
20 Elon

What say you?

Looking forward to all of the ACC matchups, should be interesting. Don't think anyone in The Big 10 is beating Northwestern but you never know. The Top 4 look about right, not sure Stony Brook belongs at 6 but I don't think they will be bumped unless or until there are upsets in The Big or The ACC.

Virginia Vs James Madison on Friday....
Any chance of an upset?

No

Will be way closer than you are giving jmu credit for, their goalie is very good and the team is well coached.

Should be a good game. Edge goes to UVA but an upset would not surprise me.

Is Stony Brook allowing fans at games?