BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM MadLax Lacrosse

Ok Karen

This is such a lazy, unsurprising response.

I would say both are ..

For CBLL? False. My son plays and there isn't a single 27 on any of the inhouse teams. If this is Northstars maybe, but we r not playing that league so I can't speak for it. U need to be more specific.

Would you like names?

Yes please

2 are listed on Future Elite Rush although 1 was moved to a different roster. They have only played 1 game. I'll let you figure it out from there since this is a Madlax and parent issue and, I hope, not a child's decision. They have 2008 birthdays and are physically large and athletic for their age. Madlax will say they are beginners but I don't want my 2011 child playing against them.

Yes, that is the thing about discrimination law, in private business you can (and have to) make a lot of decisions as long as they are not focused on a protected class of people, while the same standard of conduct isn't extended to others. ML can omit anyone they want from any event, so long as the reason isn't exclusive to a protected class. For instance, if what they accuse Nationals of doing is accurate, they sure can reject them from future events..........unless True and other clubs (like ML!!!) are known by tournament ownership to be participating in that same exact behavior to any extent.

I can almost guarantee that is the core of Nationals' complaint, but we can't really know that because the complaint is poorly written and they haven't gotten ahead of it PR-wise, which is a mistake.[/quote]

What did Madlax accuse Nationals of doing; why were they banned? Can’t be for being a national team there were 8 National teams just in the 2023 bracket of the tourney!
Also can’t say it’s cause they are minority - Nations United is specifically developed to provide opportunities for minority players and they were in it. Why was Nationals turned away?

That’s just how box is. This unfortunately is not a Madlax concoction.

Look up the age brackets for box lacrosse.

My kid plays up (a lot) and he is fine. Your kid will be fine also.

What did Madlax accuse Nationals of doing; why were they banned? Can’t be for being a national team there were 8 National teams just in the 2023 bracket of the tourney!
Also can’t say it’s cause they are minority - Nations United is specifically developed to provide opportunities for minority players and they were in it. Why was Nationals turned away?[/quote]

Nationals were turned away because at last years club nationals, their 2027 team used players who were rostered on other teams for the same tournament. MadLax had to boot them in order to preserve the integrity of the event. Very simple.

Why would the Nationals be penalized for something that happened with a team at last year's event? And if that's the case, why didnt they just tell the Nationals this before they paid, registered and flew down to FL?

This all sounds like a case of terrible management and administration by Madlax. But not racism. It's a pi55ing match over hurt feelings.

Nationals were turned away because at last years club nationals, their 2027 team used players who were rostered on other teams for the same tournament. MadLax had to boot them in order to preserve the integrity of the event. Very simple.[/quote]

This response is accurate but not comprehensive. The "line in the sand" is whether an organization is adding players DURING a tournament who were not on the submitted roster. "Illegal rostering" is usually two rules: 1) All players must be on a submitted roster; 2) No player can be on more than one roster.

OK.....so..... It is well known that Madlax, True, Crabs, 91, Nationals, Mad Dog, Team Eighteen, and others all violate these two rules "occasionally." It is a horrible practice for youth sports, and it is always against the rules. Ad hoc/on-the-spot roster additions also means some parents are not paying, which I personally find insulting to those who do pay. Some of the clubs have in fact had teams DQ'ed (or players told to leave the field) for these roster violations, at prior tournaments as well as in the HoCo league. Some as recently as 2021.

Madlax ran the event in question last year. I was there. Arguably Madlax rosters were "ready to go" and not ad hoc for this Madlax event. Nationals decided to undertake this bad practice at this particular event, and got caught. Madlax is the tourney organizer and chose to enforce this rule. Very self serving by Madlax, but #1, their event, their rules, and #2 I have a hard time believing it was racially based as accused. The only evidence to support that would be if other clubs run by white guys were allowed to do on-the-spot rostering at the same Madlax event, which I kind of doubt (but would be hilarious to hear about).

Last year, Nationals 2027 added players already rostered on other teams in the very same division. Obviously, opposing players and coaches noticed and complained to the event organizers. The organizers (MadLax) cut Nationals a break by allowing them to play in the playoff round, which Nationals won, but then told them that they were not welcome to come back. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

If that's the case, why Madlax allow the Nationals register, pay, and fly down to FL if they were banned from the event for previous year's behavior?

Meh they didn't "fly down," but at least by the time the Nationals families heard, many had booked flights. Maybe some were unrefundable? Not sure whether ML told Nationals at the last Tournament not to come back, or if that notification was months later. I suppose that timing will be litigated.

Certainly the litigation will be focused on whether their "banning" was essentially fair to the Nationals Org or not. Beyond that, whether it was "discriminatory" is a very high bar to meet.

What’s hilarious is that Mad Dog National (with several Nationals players) won the tournament and beat Madlax 8-0 in the semi-finals

No, the Nationals organization that was caught cheating last year did NOT register and fly their teams to Florida. There were other teams with the word National or nation in their name, so perhaps you are confusing Nationals with one of those.

They were kicked out after flights and hotels had been booked. Obviously not after they had flown to Florida, as this this all went down a couple months ago. Not sure whether fees had been paid/accepted though. If so, pretty bad form on Madlax’ part. Heard the head of Madlax has quite the ego and temper, so wouldn’t surprise me.

Didnt ML owner make a fool of himself with a player that left the club?

Thanks Cab.

What?!?!?!? G got caught cheating?!?!?! I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say that he would do something like that.

Yes, it is fun for Madlax detractors when one of their teams gets beaten, but like it or not, this event was a massive success for MadLax. It used to be a joke tournament with only MadLax' own teams and B level competition in attendance. But now it draws the very best national and regional all-star teams, plus the top-ranked "real" teams. Most of the MadLax teams finished at or near the top of large, elite fields. For example, the 2027 MadLax team went 4-1, with its only loss to Mad Dog Nationals, ranked #2 in US Club lax rankings, and they beat Nation's Best, which seems to have taken the place of Nationals, 7-5. The 2026 MadLax team went 3-2, losing to SweetLax and LI Express CoachC, the top two teams in the country. The 2025 MadLax team won its division, beating Crabs, West Coast Starz, Sweetlax. The 2029 ML team finished second, losing 8-4 to Nation's Best, in the finals. If I were Cabell (trust me, I am not) I would far prefer to have elite competition and my own teams win some/lose some, rather than a cream puff event where my teams collect all the trophies.

"Hey Ungrateful Quitter"

https://deadspin.com/hey-ungrateful-quitter-emails-from-an-angry-lacrosse-660703941

There is so much bad information here, its truly amazing. Nationals didn't cheat last year, that's incorrect and just an excuse that parents use when their teams lose. The clubs that run the Club Nationals Tournament don't like Nationals poaching their players and are trying to end Nationals business model, by boxing them out of tournaments. Plain and simple. And Mad Dog '27 was essentially Nationals '27 from last year, but for a few players. We need some fact checking here.

agree 100%. this the 3rd year for this tournament and it pretty clear the best teams want to play the best teams. Like the PP said you win some and lose some and that just makes those ML teams hungrier to be the best. 27, 26 and 25 all played well and the 25 team wasn't even picked to win it and just out played and wanted it more. Great Tournament and only going to get better!

I would add it was a well run tournament. Games started on time and the fields were awesome (all real grass) with real scoreboards at every field and lined only for lacrosse. The event has grown from about 50 teams, to 75 to over 120 and now they have added girls. This has happened all during covid.

I really hope more DMV and New England teams come next year.

Correct. The idea that Nationals must have cheated was floated on this board. Cabel would have most certainly changed the results to show forfeits. https://tourneymachine.com/Public/R...rnament=h202011111413287002971da302a3c4d

Yes, Mad Dog Nationals now have a number of players from the Nationals. I wouldn't call them "essentially" but these were Denver and west coast players who have found the travel expenses too much for the Nationals program. All of the national team programs are always in great flux due to travel and location but the better players keep going to them.

Nation's Best is the national program for 3Step who bought the Hawks. They are the big bully on the block and aren't done in their acquisitions in the DC area.

Madlax can't stem the national team programs and has fallen behind them because CM's personality and repuation precedes him. Nationals doesn't have a regional club base network in which to draw upon so we'll see if they can keep it up.

Fact 1. G cheats
Fact 2. G lies
Fact 3. G takes peoples money without providing a product or service.

Evidence: Go read the 7-6-21 interview from Duke's Lacrosse owner/director Ebe Helm kicking G and his Duke's Nationals brand to the curb. https://www.thedukeslacrosse.com/current-announcements/

If you have not had the opportunity to see him SCREAM at 4th, 5th, and 6th graders from the sideline, it is <<kisses fingertips>> not to be missed!

Nationals were turned away because at last years club nationals, their 2027 team used players who were rostered on other teams for the same tournament. MadLax had to boot them in order to preserve the integrity of the event. Very simple.[/quote]


Never use the word integrity with the sport of lacrosse or Madlax, it simply doesn’t exist.

How many kids are actually on the nationals 28 “roster?”

Seems they have tryouts every three months all over the place.

Re 28 Nationals. We played them this summer. My hindsight ~estimate is 20-25 kids on roster. It was heavily populated by Next Level and Hawks kids. I didn't recognize the other helmets. They were pretty average IMO.

I do know that the Nationals coach approached at least 2 players on my son's team after one of our games and asked them to play for Nationals. I repeat, players, not the parents of yet-to-be 6th graders. Pretty creepy.

The practice of coaches approaching kids first is not unique to Nationals. It is wrong and I it absolutely sours most parents.

Wow, how could any parent sign up their Son to play for this maniac after reading this?

You know that you can see EXACTLY what the suit is about right? Its in federal court and everything is public? Sooo for those who say Nationals we thrown out for cheating, not accurate per the lawsuit. Those who say Nationals were not Invited, registered, and had hotels? Not right again….and per the court filings…..Jake Dean just said “Nationals are too good” and Cabal went along with it and threw them out of the tournament….motion to dismiss DENIED!

If you think this behavior is unique to ML, then go read the 91 MD or Hawks thread. Its amazing the level of child abuse that parents will tolerate from "lacrosse coaches" so they can proudly beat their chest while boasting to be on "the #1 team in the nation" or thereabouts.

Player(s) played for one team, and the same day switched jerseys and played for Nationals. Multiple opposing players and coaches witnessed and reported it. If you don't consider that to be cheating, or if you deny it happened and say that opposing parents made it up, that would explain why Nationals are no longer welcome at very many tournaments.

Pleeeeeease...which shellacking felt worse? Last years by Nationals '27 or this years shutout by Mad Dog '27? The Mad Dog National vs. MadLax National game wasn't even competitive. I think you guys had 1 shot! Did Mad Dog cheat too?!?!?!?

btw, the person he went off on is still close with the ML org and asst coaches when he is off from D1 ball. There is more talk about this old article from a Bernie-esque publication from BOTC than from the kid who took the lashing. If it doesn't bother him, it shouldn't bother you.

The judge gave National's another chance to state their claim with a reminder that a number of their legal arguments were actually incorrect.

I find it interesting that you take what was written in the communications from the Nationals attorney as a statement of fact, especially given the bizarre yet comical nature of his submission.