BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Group Conversion Table

Several threads have been asking about age group eligibility and BOTC wanted to bring the table that we have constructed to its own thread to make the information easy to find and understand.

This table is structured with the Class of 2013 as the starting point. Once the new seasonal year (a soccer concept) begins in the August timeframe, the entire table will roll forward to a new year - hence, the U-groups will all be +1 from their current standing.

It is very important that readers look at this data since those October/November birthdates tend to create most of the controversy and this example helps you to see why!

12/01/94 - 08/31/95 ... Class of 2013 ... 12th Grade ... U/18
09/01/95 - 11/30/95 ... Class of 2013 ... 12th Grade ... U/17

12/01/95 - 08/31/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 11th Grade ... U/17
09/01/96 - 11/30/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 11th Grade ... U/16

12/01/96 - 08/31/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 10th Grade ... U/16
09/01/97 - 11/30/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 10th Grade ... U/15

12/01/97 - 08/31/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 9th Grade .... U/15
09/01/98 - 11/30/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 9th Grade .... U/14

12/01/98 - 08/31/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 8th Grade .... U/14
09/01/99 - 11/30/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 8th Grade .... U/13

12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 7th Grade .... U/13
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 7th Grade .... U/12

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 6th Grade .... U/12
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 6th Grade .... U/11

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 5th Grade .... U/11
09/01/02 - 11/30/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 5th Grade .... U/10

12/01/02 - 08/31/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 4th Grade .... U/10
09/01/03 - 11/30/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 4th Grade .... U/9

12/01/03 - 08/31/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 3rd Grade .... U/9
09/01/04 - 11/30/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 3rd Grade .... U/8

12/01/04 - 08/31/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 2nd Grade .... U/8
09/01/05 - 11/30/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 2nd Grade .... U/7

Why doesn't lacrosse go to the hockey model - kids play in their birth year.

Less confusing.

hockey parents are not bright enough to figure out grade year so they have to go by birth year because it is less confusing

In all honesty, given the errors in tournament placements and arguments between parents and clubs this summer, it is not clear that the lacrosse world is handling the current situation very well. This is a glass house situation if ever there was one.

Rolling the Age Group Conversion Table forward to cover the upcoming academic year now that August has arrived.

12/01/95 - 08/31/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/18
09/01/96 - 11/30/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/17

12/01/96 - 08/31/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/17
09/01/97 - 11/30/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/16

12/01/97 - 08/31/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/16
09/01/98 - 11/30/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/15

12/01/98 - 08/31/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/15
09/01/99 - 11/30/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/14

12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/14
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/13

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/13
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/12

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/12
09/01/02 - 11/30/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/11

12/01/02 - 08/31/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/11
09/01/03 - 11/30/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/10

12/01/03 - 08/31/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/10
09/01/04 - 11/30/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/9

12/01/04 - 08/31/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/9
09/01/05 - 11/30/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/8

12/01/05 - 08/31/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/8
09/01/06 - 11/30/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/7

The problem is the whole Summer Tournament Season is driven by the college coaches and recruiting. They want to see games played between specific graduating classes so they dont waste time looking at kids they dont need.

The soccer world manages to handle recruiting based on birth dates.

Who cares, It's soccer. This is lacrosse. There are millions of kids playing soccer and only a few get noticed so let soccer do whatever they want. Lacrosse is a much smaller community, with a higher chance of getting seen so lets drop the soccer/lacrosse comparison. If I wanted my kid in a soccer structure she would be playing soccer.

We can try this another way.

"Sport A" is well organized at the top, does not have sideline participants complaining about age group violations, trusts that the underlying system has proper enforcement, believes that the tournaments are matching properly aged teams, and has a single structure (U-age groups) governing leagues, tournaments, and recruiting.

"Sport B" is lacrosse. Accusations of age group violations abound, enforcement is left to the discretion of tournament organizers (subject to scrutiny from sites such as BOTC), tournament mismatches happen more often, and there are multiple age alignment structures contributing to the problems without a resolution in sight.

So, what is BOTC doing about it? We are meeting with US Lacrosse and local LIMLF representatives on Thursday, August 15th to discuss these points along with many others. Whether change is afoot remains to be seen.

What Cage said.

reading through these posts it seems that there are some unhappy people with the U designation also. It seems to me thst some people are complaining that there is a huge gap in the grad year and in the U system also Cage and Powder are both soccer first people, trying to force there will on a sport that is not wholly there first love. In the U designation. as we saw this year in florida with top guns, we had 3 players from a 2015 grad year, rising juniors. playing against moastly rising sophs and frosh, basically we had girls that were days away from being 16 playing against 14&15 y/o .both are flawed, so lets stay with the devil we know

You're missing CageSage's point above: no one is bitching on the soccer end of things because the rule is unilateral across all soccer organizations and tournaments. In the soccer world there wouldn't be an argument about the U15 tournament. US Lacrosse created the tournament rules so they are not in line with club/team standards. Blame them for this mess.

Furthermore, forcing my will on lacrosse? How much power do you think I have? I'll tell you: none. If I could make a change the first thing I'd do was institute a personal foul rule like basketball, five fouls and you're out of the game. Clean up the dirty play. So what is my first love: soccer or basketball? ;-)

Stick with grad year, those who bend the system are cheaters and we'll all know who they at the time. I'd rather that then always play boys or girls in a "U" situation that skips a year. U9 U11 U13 U15 U17.

Understanding around the country many towns may not have enough kids at an age group, and if that happens you play up / at the oldest grade level on your team (regardless of one player on the team). The unfortunate thing here is an older player who is less skilled than the younger ones. Well when I was growing up they had cuts for travel.

In supporting class year graduations, you are saying that :

• you are fine with players being held back or left back for one or possibly two years based on academics and playing with those potentially one or two years younger,
• the need for birth certificates at tournaments should be waived since you cannot do anything in terms of the player's age, and
• you are willing to trust the club coaches in designing their graduating year classes since there will not be any school administered documentation confirming a graduation year.

Effectively, you are saying that what is in place right now is just fine. Seriously, I do not think that folks are thinking through the implications of their statements.

As for the opposition to the U-age groups, why do these groups have to be every other year? Clearly, there are enough players to form teams based on class year. U-age groups only shifts the calendar window for grouping student-athletes by a few months.

Player cards

Also I've noticed on the boys' threads parents' frequent compaints about their sons playing "men." As well, there have been discussions on this board about kids who were held back from starting kindergarten to give them an advantage (academic? athletic? IDK.). Going by grad year does not address these issues but going by birth date does.

Organizational soccer has been around for a lot longer than organizational lacrosse, and on a much larger scale. It could just be that they chose birth date after trial and error and found it to be the most manageable. AAU basketball, also a successful, longstanding program, also goes by birth year.

References to soccer are TABOO but there really is no comparison. Laminated verified approved eligibility cards for coaches and players. Leagues and Tournamnets that align teams by ability. Upward and downward movement from season to season. Everyone trusts you are playing the same team from week to week instead of all this movement from team to team from weekend to weekend.

The disney national championship scores were and absolute joke on the girls side.

If its just about recruiting then everything is fine. If you want to call it a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP then tighten up the rosters!

I am not saying do away with governing it. I understand BC/DOB's are the easiest but sometimes the easiest isn't the best. US Lacrosse has you register DOB (not sure if they record grade - I just re-up my kids and me) if grade isnt recorded why not put the grad year in US Lacrosse and have them issue rosters.

For those that play on multiple teams, okay, as long as you are grade eligible and sign up as a part of that organization. As far as pulling kids from an A team to play B or vice versa (in grade or playing up). I actually like that idea (may be in the minority - So me say play with whom you try'd out for - I agree to a point - but if a team within our org is short players or the org wants to put a "special" team in an extra tournament go for it)


As far as the held/left back, yes it is what it is and they will play with them in gym and eventually in HS so why not grow up in sports with them. If that held back kid is really that good then he should play a year up to get better (shame on the parents if they don't seek that outlet). At the same time, I do believe there needs to be a certain rule that protects against a player who was left back twice. (kind've like a weight limit many football leagues impose).

Just play your age u9,10,12,13,14,15,16, etc... Leave no grey area. If you're 9 you play u9, you are either 9 or you're not, etc...with player cards and straight ages groups "cheaters" will be called out and ejected from that game. Period. Eventually people will have no choice to comply.

powder I don't know or care what your first love is .But it clearly isn't lax, It sounds like you want lacrosse to be basketball or soccer, and if you like those rules better than have your kid play those sports. But do us a favor and stop comparing Lax to soccer or b-ball. You might like the U designation, and it might fit soccer, but lax is driven by a single engine, college recruitment. If you and Cage see this, thats on you two. Most college coaches don't care if a kid started school early or late because of there birthdate, they only care about when is this kid available to me. furthermore, any idiot that leaves there kid back to gain an advantage over other kids in lacrosse is really only doing there kid harm. How many colleges are going to accept someone that couldn't complete a grade in primary or secondary school over a kid that did with higher grades. All students are still subject to every schools academic standards

Leave no grey areas, when does the clock Start/stop - 9/1. Why 9/1 because schools do it that way?

and the cycle continues.

I hear you and agree, I like grade based, but your argument is a bit flawed. 3 things that are happening:

1).Families are holding back their kids before school starts (not necessarily for sports)
2). Families are holding kids back in 2nd/3rd grade (what ever the reason - Seamless the student in LETS SAY WHEN THEY GO INTO 6TH GRADE - and definitely seamless to colleges by the time recruiting years come by)
3). Colleges are suggesting the 9th grade hold back (attend a private and repeat 9th).


At least on the boys side

A little research goes a long way. Here are the facts. In N.Y. A child must be the age of 5 by December 31 of the school year. This means that a child can be 4 years old for the first 4 months of school. In Maryland child must be 5 years old by september 1 of the school year or must be held out. meaning, if your kid is born on September 2 he/she will not start school until he/she is 6. a full year later. there not cheating. This is no different than the u designation. If the cut off is aug. 1 and a kid is born on july 30. he she is a full year older at least , then the average kid

That's why every year should have their own group. at least the gap will be only 1 full year not 2.

Here's the problem, they hold back anyway. Then the others particularly the private, repeat 9th grade. Age based, for everything with birth certificate verification. Anyone who argues is invested in the status quo. They're trying to game the system. Why? Anyone in sports knows 18-24 month age difference in physical maturity is a huge advantage. Imagine a 17 yo boy competing against 14 and 15 year olds at a recruiting camp. Yeah they're all rising sophomores, but who is going to standout? Please. Yes the college coaches know he'll be 19 as a college freshman and they love it. They get a man verses a boy. Football, Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, all verify age... Its time lax gets it together.

And your "facts" are incorrect. In NYC, the date is 12/31. On all of Long Island except one or two districts, the date is 12/1. What we often see on LI is a child born in Sept, Oct or Nov, who is age eligible for kindergarten, held back until the following school year. Thus, when they enter kindergarten at 6 years od., almost seven, they at be a full year older than students born in those same months the following year who entered school at the appropriate time. This is fairly common, particularly in the wealthier communities, on LI.

Sounds like my facts were pretty much right on target, excuse me , a kid could be 4 for 3 months mot 4. the sad truth is in our rush to go back to work we are putting our kids in school when it's most convenient for us and not in the best interest of our children. Maybe we should stop crying about choices we made. Here is a question for all of you complaining about the grad year. Are you the same parents pushing your kids to varsity in the 7,8,9th grade because little Johnny/Janie is so good? And if so why is this somehow different? Isn't the age gape there worse, where is the concern? I think most of you are just complaining because at some point you have lost. No matter how you designate lacrosse , Football, soccer or any sport there will always be a a no less than 12 month spread youngest to oldest, and in most cases closer to 18 months. unless you want make it so P.C. that you can only play kids born in the same month of the same year

If you go by birthdate then all players are withing a 12-month span, unless a kid plays up, and then that's your choice if you make the team.

In my experience, more parents keep their kids back from kindergarten rather than force them to go because the parents both work. I don't think that's just my town but I could be mistaken.

All the moved-up varsity players must pass state standards of physical ability and maturity. That still can yield players who are much smaller than their on-age teammates though. I once heard a mom yelling that the opposing team was being too rough on her 8th grade daughter; that's the risk you take when you let your child play up. But again, that's a family choice. To my mind, that's a bit different than showing up at a tournament and watching your team face kids who are in the same year of school but a year or two older.

that could be a reason, but my experience has been the exact opposite. Many parents seem to keep their smart, well adjusted kids back with the idea that it might give them an (unfair) edge on the fields. Then they seem to give very unusual excuses when the topic comes up, although some are very honest about it.

So your saying that you know parents that had the foresight to keep there kids out of kindergarten for a year so they could have an advantage 5 to 10 years later, assuming the kid would be playing lax, any good at it , and totally into it ? I'm calling bull s%&t

No, they kept him out a year so he would have an advantage in EVERYTHING. Older boys tend to fill the leadership roles at school, they are better prepared mentally and physically for all tasks.

Sad, but true! The two I'm thinking of right off the top of my head had athletic parents who apparently assumed (correctly, as it turned out) that their children would follow in their footsteps. All parents were big, the kids were big for their ages, I can't comment on their developmental stage at kindergarten, but the parents elected to hold these kids back a year before beginning school. One family had kids who were born in early fall, so okay, that's close. But another family had a kid born in April (!) and although he should've graduated this year from HS, he is now a rising senior and a talented multi-sport athlete attending prep school. I should note that the first family I mentioned also had some of their kids attend prep school after HS (is that prep school? whatever it's called) and before college on the assumption that it would help them with their college athletics. I will also add that their dad is a nutjob/not a nice guy, and this is not, IMO, normal procedure for parenting.

Some kids really do need another year before entering kindergarten but there are cases like I cite above. It really does happen.

I know quite a few families on LI, where the families have 3 (or more) children and the youngest of children are held back; why, because they learned how to game the system from seeing what the other parents did in the older child's years. The reason isn't only in sports but in all aspect of life.

I too have seen these same students be the ones in the honors classes and leadership roles in the schools. Half pan out to be the better athletes (and are also in the top half a year above) but the others could not handle being in the "Proper" grad year athletically.

Parents definitely do this, so it's not bull s%&t...

In any given graduating class how many kids would say are held back from entering school do to birth month, for academics, etc...?

Depends on the size of the class.

In your town, kids school, etc... estimate... Is it 10, 20, 30??

I agree with both sides of this discussion but I just don't think there are a ton of kids not starting school for whatever reason making this age issue such a problem. Are there a few- more than a few- of course. The main problem is the clubs/coaches/organizers playing kids where they don't belong and parents are agreeing to it. the travel directors know the age of the players and they know the rules. Going into a game or tournament with players who are over/under the divison age is the real issue. Teams shouldn't be mixed

WHat does the age of the players have to do with it? The entire point was the grade. If it went by age their would be kids on grade based teams that where NOT eligible to play with that group. People want to freak that TLIO has a kid whos a grade older and was born in Nov but they have a kid whos the same grade buy was born the same year but in October. Thats how football, baseball , soccer, hockey and basketball do it

Well, that's the rub. Lacrosse goes by grad year when every other sport goes by birthdate. Then US Lacrosse throws in that U15 tournament and riots break out (on here, anyway). If you go by birthdate, then at least the club teams are aligned by age.